who do want as the Celts pg for the long term? Smart or Rondo?

[bucknersrevenge]

two more years after this season or five more years from now? Thinking about it quickly,

I'll hold onto Rondo until he's 31-32 no questions asked: that doesn't interfere with Smart's development because if he's performing well enough to regulate Rondo to the bench, then we're in "good problem to have" territory. If he's not, then Rondo as your starting point guard isn't something you need to replace right away.

Remember, the C's will likely have Smart under contract for the next seven or eight years, depending on what happens in 2017 with the lockout/strike. No reason to definitively decide what to do with him in year one or two.

Fair enough. What do you resign Rondo for? How high would you be willing to go to resign him if no other star joins him next season? Not that those 2 things should be related but still...

Just off the top of my head: $13.5 with the 7.5% base increase over 5 years. I'm a sucker for player continuity.

I like that. That would be a good deal.

[Tr1boy]

I really like Smart but don't see him as a PG as much as many do.  I'd love to play him at SG and have Avery in the rotation long term.

Do we need shooting and size at other positions then?  Yeah sure.  But I think defensively and offefnsively too, that unit has a lot of strengths.

I see Smart as a defensive player, scorer, and play maker.  Just because you can pass and you don't have the prototypical size, doesn't mean you aren't a SG.

Now, I think you could start Smart at PG and have a really good team.  Not saying he will be as good, but this is basically how I view Westbrook (a SG starting at PG). 

But personally I like pass first point guards, and Rondo is the best passer in the league in my opinion.  I am in the camp of holding on to him and paying him fairly.

A lot of times this debate can really just be widdled down to this preference. Some prefer pass-first PGs. Some prefer PGs capable of scoring from the position.  I myself use to strictly prefer pass-first guys but after watching what little Stevens was able to accomplish with Crawford leading the charge, it became clear to me that Stevens can operate with either. So at this point, I just want to maximize assets, period. IMO, that means moving our currently most valuable asset(for fair value of course, don't read as dumping) in favor of signing him to a lucrative extension without being able to pair him with another current superstar and letting Smart, Sully, and Bradley lead this team into the future.

Stevens prefers pg that can shoot imo. He wants the ball moving around and wants the open guy to score/make the jump shot. He wants the team to run /passes ahead to make transition baskets

[slamtheking]

Rondo has shown he has the abilities to be one of the top PGs in the NBA.



I want him at PG and Smart to become the SG.  He has the size (weight) to stand up to the NBA SGs.

So do you advocate trading Bradley then I assume?

I actually think a 3-guard rotation of Rondo, AB and Smart would be one of the best, certainly defensively, in the NBA.  could function similar to the old Bad Boys trio of Thomas, Dumars and Johnson.  In our version, Smart would come off the bench for either Rondo or AB with the ability to be a top combo guard.  no need to trade either one right now.

Celtics pioneered the sixth man concept.  just because someone doesn't start doesn't mean they're not integral to the team's success or on the court in crunch time.

Yes thats true. But you think rondo is really going to be ok sitting on the bench in the 4th some games? 

why wold you assume Rondo would be the one sitting?   let's see what the choices are:
Rondo:
Con: poor FT shooter, not a great outside shooter but improving annually
Pro: does everything else at a top level and contributes even when not scoring.  Championship experience.  shown he can be on the floor at the end of games and excel already

AB:
Con: can't handle a ball to save his life--turnover machine.  mediocre shooter.  no experience closing games and winning
Pro: great defender and hustle player.  decent FT shooter but not great.

Smart:
Con: unproven rookie with known shooting issues.  handle is ok, passing is ok --> based on college performance.
Pro: decent FT shooter but not great.  expected to be a great defender and hustle player. 

just off that quick assessment, Rondo is the one you CAN'T afford to put on the bench at the end of a close game.  The toss-up is between AB and Smart and probably goes in AB's favor until Smart shows it should be him.  IMHO, neither will surpass Rondo so your point is moot.

[RJ87]

A lot of times this debate can really just be widdled down to this preference. Some prefer pass-first PGs. Some prefer PGs capable of scoring from the position.

And that's my concern - at least at this point - about Marcus Smart as a PG. He's not a pass first PG - he's a solid ballhandler and a good passer, but as a PG he's pretty average in that respect. Certainly not what I would classify as a pure point guard. On the other hand, he's not good enough of a scorer to be considered a scoring PG. His inefficiency in college is a concern (41 FG% over 2 seasons), and he doesn't have the elite athleticism to compensate. What makes Russell Westbrook so special is that combination of athleticism, speed and agility. His ability to get into the lane and reek havoc makes up for his inefficiency. If we're all hoping for Marcus to become an elite scoring PG, there could be some rude awakenings.

Now if Smart is your secondary ballhandler at the SG, then you I think you're onto something. If he can develop some wrinkles to his game off the ball - a solid midrange/pull up jumper, random cuts to the basket, I think he can be a really effective and above average SG.

[the_Bird]

Can we at least wait until the first preseason game before making hasty judgments?

[slamtheking]

I really like Smart but don't see him as a PG as much as many do.  I'd love to play him at SG and have Avery in the rotation long term.

Do we need shooting and size at other positions then?  Yeah sure.  But I think defensively and offefnsively too, that unit has a lot of strengths.

I see Smart as a defensive player, scorer, and play maker.  Just because you can pass and you don't have the prototypical size, doesn't mean you aren't a SG.

Now, I think you could start Smart at PG and have a really good team.  Not saying he will be as good, but this is basically how I view Westbrook (a SG starting at PG). 

But personally I like pass first point guards, and Rondo is the best passer in the league in my opinion.  I am in the camp of holding on to him and paying him fairly.

A lot of times this debate can really just be widdled down to this preference. Some prefer pass-first PGs. Some prefer PGs capable of scoring from the position.  I myself use to strictly prefer pass-first guys but after watching what little Stevens was able to accomplish with Crawford leading the charge, it became clear to me that Stevens can operate with either. So at this point, I just want to maximize assets, period. IMO, that means moving our currently most valuable asset(for fair value of course, don't read as dumping) in favor of signing him to a lucrative extension without being able to pair him with another current superstar and letting Smart, Sully, and Bradley lead this team into the future.

Stevens prefers pg that can shoot imo. He wants the ball moving around and wants the open guy to score/make the jump shot. He wants the team to run /passes ahead to make transition baskets

just to be more precise - EVERYONE prefers a PG that can shoot.  the thing is, a lot of the ones that can shoot don't do all the other things Rondo does.  that's the trade-off with Rondo.  Take everything he brings to the table and give up some shooting OR bring in some who may shoot better but doesn't do much of the other stuff.

Unless CP3 becomes available, Rondo's a better option.

[slamtheking]

A lot of times this debate can really just be widdled down to this preference. Some prefer pass-first PGs. Some prefer PGs capable of scoring from the position.

And that's my concern - at least at this point - about Marcus Smart as a PG. He's not a pass first PG - he's a solid ballhandler and a good passer, but as a PG he's pretty average in that respect. Certainly not what I would classify as a pure point guard. On the other hand, he's not good enough of a scorer to be considered a scoring PG. His inefficiency in college is a concern (41 FG% over 2 seasons), and he doesn't have the elite athleticism to compensate. What makes Russell Westbrook so special is that combination of athleticism, speed and agility. His ability to get into the lane and reek havoc makes up for his inefficiency. If we're all hoping for Marcus to become an elite scoring PG, there could be some rude awakenings.

Now if Smart is your secondary ballhandler at the SG, then you I think you're onto something. If he can develop some wrinkles to his game off the ball - a solid midrange/pull up jumper, random cuts to the basket, I think he can be a really effective and above average SG.

this would seem to be the plan the team has rather than the mentality of some on this site that it has to be Rondo OR Smart but not both.

[RJ87]

Can we at least wait until the first preseason game before making hasty judgments?

This.

[Chris]

I WANT Rondo.  However, being realistic, I think most of the most likely scenarios for success that I can see for this franchise in the near future would involve trading Rondo, and Smart becoming a really good player.  Things like salary, age, and trade value just tip the scales I think to move Rondo, and hope Smart is the real deal. 

[boscel33]

smart.  he's a bigger PG and if we can use Rondo to get better, that's my direction.

[LooseCannon]

I WANT Rondo.  However, being realistic, I think most of the most likely scenarios for success that I can see for this franchise in the near future would involve trading Rondo, and Smart becoming a really good player.  Things like salary, age, and trade value just tip the scales I think to move Rondo, and hope Smart is the real deal.

If there is a combination of trading Rondo and Smart becoming a really good player in the franchise's future, I think it would be better to wait until Smart becomes a really good player before trading Rondo.

[hpantazo]

Is there any way we can re-sign Rondo to a max 2 yr deal like the one Lebron signed with the Cavs?

I would prefer we lock up Rondo for as long as we can, I don't care if we pay Rondo the max because I think a healthy Rondo is a max player.

But if we are going to only start Rondo for three years, then lets re-work his last year on his current deal and ask him to sign a 2 yr max deal or whatever we are able to offer under the current CBA.

Most people don't like overpaying for things. Most people, for some reason, think that the grass is always greener on someone else's lawn.

I think the biggest mistake a person can make is to lose sight of the good things you already have. To take the good things for granted.

Well, would you prefer to give him a shorter max deal and then try to resign him when the cap and the max go up like Lebron is planning, so he can get more money, or would you rather give him what the max is now, locked in long term, while the max rate balloons in the near future?

Not sure why Rondo would agree to sacrifice the longterm security in favor of going back into free agency 2 years later and older.

A lot of players are opting to do that now that they know the cap will go up significantly when the new TV deal comes in soon. Lebron signed a 2 year deal for that reason. Monroe, although not for the exact same reason, also opted for more money in the future and less security at the moment. Basically, a guy like Rondo will have one sure shot at a max deal, so he better make the most of it, and delaying it for a year can result in 20-30 million dollars more overall. I'm not saying he would do it, just that it's a very reasonable possibility.

[CeltsAcumen]

If possible, both.

[AngryAndIrritable]

Too early to say at this stage, depends on the players we finally end up with around them.

I hope this fence doesn't have splinters...

[Tr1boy]

I WANT Rondo.  However, being realistic, I think most of the most likely scenarios for success that I can see for this franchise in the near future would involve trading Rondo, and Smart becoming a really good player.  Things like salary, age, and trade value just tip the scales I think to move Rondo, and hope Smart is the real deal.

If there is a combination of trading Rondo and Smart becoming a really good player in the franchise's future, I think it would be better to wait until Smart becomes a really good player before trading Rondo.

How does this happen with rondo eating majority of the min at the pg spot,especially 4th quarter action for the next 4 or 5 years?

If we drafted exum, would you change your mind? Bc some consider smart as the best pg from the 2014 draft

Smart does not have the ideal size for a sg and does not shoot lights out nor is explosive to compensate.  Ppl stating he does not have pure pg skills are right. But do guys like bledsoe, billups have it? You can still succeed as a hybrid pg .