Source: Cavs willing to include Wiggins in Love trade

[Fred Roberts]

If this is the case, then Minny should be throwing a pick back to Cleveland. Wiggins is a perfect player to build the franchise around in place of Love. Looking at it another way, GOOD for Minny. They hit a home run in this trade they didn't want to make. Wow.

[D.o.s.]

Not to say that this was the exact strategy that failed Cleveland the first time around...


But this was the exact strategy that failed Cleveland the first time around.

It is if you equate Kevin Love to Mo Williams and an over-the-hill Shaq. Which is to say it isn't.

You're right: they did a better job the first time. 


Was referring more to the fact that they're (apparently) catering to LeBron's whims by goring themselves to appease him. They should be shipping out Sidesharajo, but they won't, because LeBron likes him.

[Snakehead]

Not to say that this was the exact strategy that failed Cleveland the first time around...


But this was the exact strategy that failed Cleveland the first time around.

I think you'd be looking at a better talent core here with Irvin/Lebron/Love than what CLE was trotting out in the late 2000s.  This isn't Mo Williams, a past his prime Antawn Jamison, and friends.

Yeah Kevin Love is a clear all-nba/all-star level performer.

If anything Cleveland's strategy last time was to stupidly lose Carlos Boozer who is at least comparable to Love as an all-star level player and then flop around like a dead fish while acquiring every veteran defensive player they could.

Yeah as someone who watched a lot of Cleveland back then, it isn't comparable.

They let Boozer walk then signed like you say, defensive vets, and then occasional guy that was kind of unproven, but with potential (Larry Hughes, Mo Williams).   Kyrie is a proven All-Star (with suspect defense, but still) and Love is obviously All NBA. 

It's way better.  Without Love it's a lot better.  Wiggins I view as a guy who will be a very good player in the league.  LeBron didnt play with any prospects like that in Cleveland.

[D.o.s.]

Hands raised, who actually read the article before posting?

*hand up*

Ever since LeBron James returned to Cleveland, talks have intensified for All-Star power forward Kevin Love.

Rumors have surfaced that the Cavaliers wouldn’t include rookie swingman Andrew Wiggins in any possible deal for the Minnesota Timberwolves’ star.

A league source said on July 17 that the Cavs are now willing to trade the No. 1 overall pick in the 2014 draft.

Wiggins, a 6-foot-8, 194-pounder, has played well at the Las Vegas Summer League, where he’s become a crowd favorite. The former Kansas star has averaged 13.7 points and 3.0 rebounds in the Cavs’ first three games. However, he’s shooting just 37.8 percent from the field.

Up until this point, it was assumed the Cavs wanted to hang onto Wiggins, largely because of comments made by Coach David Blatt.

However, a source said James wants the 6-10, 250-pound Love on the roster.

[Fafnir]

I did too, and if you want to say catering to LeBron was the strategy you were referring too I guess that's fine.

I was looking at it more from a personnel side of things. Cleveland never was able to successfully bring in another all-star level talent to pair with LBJ last time. They overpaid for meh FAs and traded for older vets.

[Donoghus]

I did too, and if you want to say catering to LeBron was the strategy you were referring too I guess that's fine.

I was looking at it more from a personnel side of things. Cleveland never was able to successfully bring in another all-star level talent to pair with LBJ last time. They overpaid for meh FAs and traded for older vets.

That's the angle I was looking at it also.

[jay]

Maybe if they have to include Bennett and Waiters to make the salaries match, Cleveland can get Shabazz back in the deal or at least the rights to Glen Robinson III.  Balance out the rosters a little. 

[Snakehead]

I did too, and if you want to say catering to LeBron was the strategy you were referring too I guess that's fine.

I was looking at it more from a personnel side of things. Cleveland never was able to successfully bring in another all-star level talent to pair with LBJ last time. They overpaid for meh FAs and traded for older vets.

Exactly.  It seems like they did try too.  The story goes LeBron tried to get Bosh to come to Cleveland and if he would have, LeBron would have stayed (which given how things have played out, I buy).

The talent was never good enough.  If LeBron is having a say in personnel decisions but the decisions are good?  If they get Kevin Love it's not as if we are talking about a player that is maybe going to break out.  He's a 25 year old All Star.

[D.o.s.]

I did too, and if you want to say catering to LeBron was the strategy you were referring too I guess that's fine.

I was looking at it more from a personnel side of things. Cleveland never was able to successfully bring in another all-star level talent to pair with LBJ last time. They overpaid for meh FAs and traded for older vets.

That's the angle I was looking at it also.

Ah, I see.

Yeah, they've lucked into a roster that might get them a win with LeBron... because they weren't able to put a good team around LeBron the first time.

If I was buying into cosmic-level schadenfreude, I'd say James and Cleveland are being set up to lose every year for the next decade or so.

[Snakehead]

Ah, I see.

Yeah, they've lucked into a roster that might get them a win with LeBron... because they weren't able to put a good team around LeBron the first time.

If I was buying into cosmic-level schadenfreude, I'd say James and Cleveland are being set up to lose every year for the next decade or so.

So maybe the basketball gods are now coming down on Kobe, who has helped decide on personnel the Lakers, for years and they will be bad for about 8 more years after this last season?

I'm in.

[D.o.s.]

Ah, I see.

Yeah, they've lucked into a roster that might get them a win with LeBron... because they weren't able to put a good team around LeBron the first time.

If I was buying into cosmic-level schadenfreude, I'd say James and Cleveland are being set up to lose every year for the next decade or so.

So maybe the basketball gods are now coming down on Kobe, who has helped decide on personnel the Lakers, for years and they will be bad for about 8 more years after this last season?

I'm in.

Kobe's been done ever since he tore his Achillies'. We're just witnessing the death rattle.

[P stoff]

Waiters, Thompson or Bennet and Wiggins.. if Flip turns that down he is an idiot. Love is nOT going to sign with Minny next year. Bennett will be mUCH better this year based on SL.

All those lamenting a long rebuild... well its not just that. The future Cavs, Magic, Sixers, Bucks will be loaded. I like their young options better than ours. We seem to be stuck in limbo, but the saving grace is all those picks. Just one impact Big and some good trades could get us back in the mix. I'm still hesistant to count on Smart/Sully at this point, but if they blossom, then we will be OK.

[Roy H.]

Honestly, the Cavs should just hold on to Wiggins...There will be plenty of Free Agents

They won't have any cap space to acquire FAs.

LeBron makes 21 million, Kryie is getting 14-15 or so, maybe more if Derrick Rose rule applies. Then Tristan Thompson has a cap hold, Bennet has his option at 5.8 and Wiggins will making around 5.5 ish I think as well, Waiters is at 5.1 on his option.

That all adds up to 52 million with Thompson's cap hold. That's assuming they add no other players at all and just don't cut rookies.

One big resource they do have is Brendan Haywood's large non-guaranteed contract next season.  They'd be able to use it to S&T (or straight up trade it) for someone making a bit over $15 million next year.

[LooseCannon]

Not to say that this was the exact strategy that failed Cleveland the first time around...


But this was the exact strategy that failed Cleveland the first time around.

I think you'd be looking at a better talent core here with Irvin/Lebron/Love than what CLE was trotting out in the late 2000s.  This isn't Mo Williams, a past his prime Antawn Jamison, and friends.

Yeah Kevin Love is a clear all-nba/all-star level performer.

If anything Cleveland's strategy last time was to stupidly lose Carlos Boozer who is at least comparable to Love as an all-star level player and then flop around like a dead fish while acquiring every veteran defensive player they could.

Yeah as someone who watched a lot of Cleveland back then, it isn't comparable.

They let Boozer walk then signed like you say, defensive vets, and then occasional guy that was kind of unproven, but with potential (Larry Hughes, Mo Williams).   Kyrie is a proven All-Star (with suspect defense, but still) and Love is obviously All NBA. 

It's way better.  Without Love it's a lot better.  Wiggins I view as a guy who will be a very good player in the league.  LeBron didnt play with any prospects like that in Cleveland.

The Boozer saga is a bit more complicated than simply letting Boozer walk.  Cleveland claims that Boozer reneged on an understanding where he would sign a reasonable contract if the Cavs declined his Parsons-like option and made him a restricted free agent.  The fall-out was sufficiently bad that his agency basically fired him as a client.  One rumor was that Boozer was intentionally not answering phone calls from his old college coach because he knew Coach K would pressure him to take the deal from Cleveland.

Here's owner Gordon Gund's side of the story.  He says that there was no agreement on a deal because that is not allowed under the CBA, but they agreed to trust each other to negotiate the maximum allowed contract once it was permissible.

Keep in mind that this was in 2004, so it was before the Gilbert Arenas provision existed.  Utah signed Boozer to a contract that Cleveland couldn't have matched (or at least not without negotiating some costly salary dumps to clear cap space).

[Rondo9]

Waiters, Thompson or Bennet and Wiggins.. if Flip turns that down he is an idiot. Love is nOT going to sign with Minny next year. Bennett will be mUCH better this year based on SL.

All those lamenting a long rebuild... well its not just that. The future Cavs, Magic, Sixers, Bucks will be loaded. I like their young options better than ours. We seem to be stuck in limbo, but the saving grace is all those picks. Just one impact Big and some good trades could get us back in the mix. I'm still hesistant to count on Smart/Sully at this point, but if they blossom, then we will be OK.

First it's best to take Summer League with a grain of salt. Second aside from the Cavs, the Magic, Sixers and Bucks future is just in doubt. I like the Celtics situation better than theirs.