Rumor: Rondo wants max extension

[BballTim]

Rondo had a chance at max (2 year extension offer). He wont get the 5 year one unless he can produce/perform like he did in 2009-2011.

  The extension wasn't a "max" offer. And FWIW Rondo was better in 2012 than 2009-2011.

2011-2012 or 2012-2013?

Bc 2012-2013 he was bad

   His teammates in 2012-2013 were pretty bad. Rondo wasn't really that bad.

Tim this again?

Rondo out for season due to injuries = team played over 500 ball and made the playoffs

  Still this. Rondo was playing in 2012 when the team was under .500 for over half the season and took the team to the conference finals. He was on the 2010 team that played .500 ball for about 2/3 of the season and got that team to the finals. I think the whole "the team was just under .500 with Rondo before the injury" seems more significant to people who are relatively unfamiliar with the team's recent history.

[Moranis]

This is the "prove it" year, and he'll have a "prove it" roster to work with, especially if we keep Bass the Finisher.

If Rondo is a max guy (I'm willing to be convinced he is), he should be able to get Bradley, Green, Bass, and Zeller to the playoffs in the East, especially with Smart, ETurner, Sully, and KO in the rotation as well.

This is a "prove it" year for Rondo. But to put the expectations of making the playoffs on his shoulders is both unrealistic and unfair.

I'd say he should put them in the mix, at least, if he's the guy as advertized.

Bradley, Green, and Bass would have to be the guys they're supposed to be as well, of course.

Yet if Rondo, Bradley and Green each get their expected 15-17ppg reasonably efficiently, and their defense is as expected as well, we should give teams hell on the perimeter.

And we have this Sully/Olynyk thing to work on some more this year as well...

you expect Rondo to score 15-17 ppg.  really?

You really don't think he's capable?

It's more of a question of how willing he is to take on the scoring load and look for his own offense vs. looking to create offense for everybody else.

he is probably capable, but I certainly don't expect it.  This is after all a player entering his 9th season who has never averaged more than 13.7 points per game in a season and whose career average is a meager 11.1 ppg.  You could certainly expect Green and Bradley to be in that range (though Bradley had his career high last year at 14.9), but Rondo that is just silly talk and would be a significant increase over what is an established track record.

[mmmmm]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

[Moranis]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

[BballTim]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

  Rondo has averaged 14/10, 11/11 and 12/12 and came close to or made all-nba teams when he did. That's max contract level of play. You can't just look at numbers on a page and decide what a player's worth.

[mmmmm]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

By who's definition?

You do understand that the number of people who have posted seasons like that is a very short list and of some pretty good players, right?   Aside from Rondo, 4 of the other 6 players who had done that since 2000 are are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams.  All 4 received a max contract in their careers.  Of the other two, Vasquez and Andre Miller only did it once.  Vasquez is still young, just off his rookie deal.

I suspect that GMs value players a little different than a lot of fans do.

[mgent]

This is the "prove it" year, and he'll have a "prove it" roster to work with, especially if we keep Bass the Finisher.

If Rondo is a max guy (I'm willing to be convinced he is), he should be able to get Bradley, Green, Bass, and Zeller to the playoffs in the East, especially with Smart, ETurner, Sully, and KO in the rotation as well.

This is a "prove it" year for Rondo. But to put the expectations of making the playoffs on his shoulders is both unrealistic and unfair.

I'd say he should put them in the mix, at least, if he's the guy as advertized.

Bradley, Green, and Bass would have to be the guys they're supposed to be as well, of course.

Yet if Rondo, Bradley and Green each get their expected 15-17ppg reasonably efficiently, and their defense is as expected as well, we should give teams hell on the perimeter.

And we have this Sully/Olynyk thing to work on some more this year as well...

you expect Rondo to score 15-17 ppg.  really?

You really don't think he's capable?

It's more of a question of how willing he is to take on the scoring load and look for his own offense vs. looking to create offense for everybody else.

he is probably capable, but I certainly don't expect it.  This is after all a player entering his 9th season who has never averaged more than 13.7 points per game in a season and whose career average is a meager 11.1 ppg.  You could certainly expect Green and Bradley to be in that range (though Bradley had his career high last year at 14.9), but Rondo that is just silly talk and would be a significant increase over what is an established track record.

And when has he ever been higher than the 4th scoring option?

Given our current roster structure, I would be uncomfortable with him being any less than the 2nd scoring option behind Jeff.  That alone should be worth AT LEAST an extra 1-2 ppg to get him to 15.

[loco_91]

If he returns to form he's worth it. But not by much. It would be much better for the team to either trade him for a pile of assets or to sign him to something closer to $16-17m/yr. I think we'll trade him at some point either way, but he isn't going to bring in such a ransom at $20m/yr.

What teams are out there who need a PG and will have cap space to offer Rondo the max?

[Vermont Green]

And when has he ever been higher than the 4th scoring option?

When you are the 4th scoring option, the defenses play you a certain way.  If you are the first or second, you get covered differently.  I think many of us have the concern that Rondo will not fare well as a top scoring option.  He is at his playmaking best when he has scorers around him.  He didn't have that last season and he isn't going to have that this season.

Even when he scored the 44 points or whatever it was in the playoffs, many of those points came off of open shots because the defense decided they would live or die with Rondo shooting.  That night Rondo burned them but I don't think he can sustain that through a season especially once defenses start to actually cover him.

I feel bad for Rondo that he is going to have to play on a bad team (assuming he stays on the Celtics and is not traded) in a contract year.  I do not think it is going to be the best environment for Rondo to display his talents.

[LB3533]

Even when he scored the 44 points or whatever it was in the playoffs, many of those points came off of open shots because the defense decided they would live or die with Rondo shooting. 

You are correct it was 44 points, against the Heat in Game 2 of the 2012 NBA ECF.

In Game 1, both PP & RA were ice cold, Rondo wasn't that much better.

Game 2, PP & KG were ice cold. Rondo's a smart player, if he sees the defense giving him the open shot and he is making them while his teammates are not making shots at a high clip, the smart play is to continue to take what the defenses give you.

Rondo did that and we nearly won the game, (lost by 4 in OT).

Heat got to shoot FTs 47 attempts, while Celtics took 29 attempts.

The point of emphasis isn't the refs, it's Rondo's smart awareness of the climate of his team from game to game (G1 to G2) and Rondo's understanding of the opposing team's defense.

Rondo's 17/12/7 over the entire playoff run (19 games) was max contract worthy. Rondo was able to achieve this production on better efficiency compared to his 17/10/10 playoffs in only his 2nd postseason experience.

Both playoff experiences are showing two examples where Rondo stepped up his playoff game when his team need him to. (17/12/7 with cold shooting teammates & 17/10/10 with no KG due to injury.)

Keep in mind, Rondo was able to produce the 17/12/7 the postseason following the playoffs when Wade tangled & pinned Rondo's arm down on the court.

This shows me precedent that Rondo can return to form from past injuries. Now I know, the injuries are not the same, but I have the utmost confidence Rondo will return to an AS/upper echelon status.

Frankly, a 70% Rondo is better than most starting PGs.

[obnoxiousmime]

Rondo is going to ask for the full max, 5 yr/100 million because why not? He had to hear people say he was outfoxed by Ainge on his last contract and this is his last big payday. He is also the best player on the roster so why should he ask for anything less than the max the Celtics can give? I don't see how anyone could believe Rondo would take another discount when he's made far less in his career compared to his contemporaries (remember, the ultra-competitive Rondo considers himself better than Rose, Paul, and all the other top PGs making big money).

Ainge left himself in a situation with little leverage. If the Celtics were competitive, it'd be understandable if Rondo took a little less to stay and allow the team more flexibility to add talent. However, all they have now is a bunch of guys on minimum or rookie deals, or non-stars making 8-10 million. How can you go to Rondo and then say "sorry, we don't feel you're worth the max. We want to save that bit of money so we can sign another role player who we feel is the missing piece to become a contender."

Let's face it: if Smart is anywhere near above average-level then Rondo is gone. He may have been the BPA but he's also Rondo insurance. The contrast in salary would be so great that keeping Rondo over him would be financially irresponsible. Either that or they deal Smart (and others) for a star player closer to Rondo in age, but we all know from the Love pursuit that may not be possible. Every other player with any promise on the team is in his early 20s. Doesn't that disparity suggest anything to anyone who thinks keeping Rondo is logically sound? Take emotion out of it and the choice is really simple.

Of course, if the team continues to struggle as expected this season the choice may be out of the team's hands. Rondo will simply leave a losing situation and take the lesser max. Or, if the Celtics never wanted him at those numbers to begin with they could work a sign and trade for the full max.

I can see one scenario where the Celtics keep Rondo and that's if they win one of the top three lottery picks in next year's draft, then a la Cleveland deal it for a star player. The Clippers pick is not going to be good enough and Smart will not raise his value considerably while playing behind Rondo. Of course, this is a long shot but not any less so than the odds another star will become available or that the Celtics will be successful in some kind of "play with Rondo on a lottery team plus remember the East is so bad!" pitch to free agents next summer.

[Vermont Green]

Even when he scored the 44 points or whatever it was in the playoffs, many of those points came off of open shots because the defense decided they would live or die with Rondo shooting. 

The point of emphasis isn't the refs, it's Rondo's smart awareness of the climate of his team from game to game (G1 to G2) and Rondo's understanding of the opposing team's defense.

I couldn't agree more that Rondo is a smart player.  That game they were daring him to shoot and it was the smart thing to do to take the shots.  He got on a roll and played a big game on a big stage.

Part of the reason KG and PP were "cold" was that the Heat defense decided to focus on taking them out of the game.  This year, there isn't going to be anyone on the team who is going to demand that kind of defensive focus and give Rondo that sort of protection.

Rondo will figure out ways to make things happen.  He is a smart and talented player but I don't think it will be smart for the Celtics to pay him 5 yrs/$20M or whatever it might take to maybe get him to sign up to stay with a rebuilding team.

[BballTim]

And when has he ever been higher than the 4th scoring option?

When you are the 4th scoring option, the defenses play you a certain way.  If you are the first or second, you get covered differently.  I think many of us have the concern that Rondo will not fare well as a top scoring option.  He is at his playmaking best when he has scorers around him.  He didn't have that last season and he isn't going to have that this season.

   Most 4th scoring options are the 4th or 5th most important player in the offense, not the league leader in assists. You're acting like Rondo's guarded like he's Courtney Lee or Matt Barnes. He's not. Defenses are generally focused on stopping Rondo. You'll see the same type of thing if he's the 2nd or 3rd scoring option on a team. Defenses won't cover him the way they would a 2nd or 3rd option who isn't arguably the best passer in the league. Also, in spite of coming back from a knee injury and being put on the court in the middle of the season with many players he was unfamiliar with Rondo still led the league in assists over the last 3 months of the season. He won't have great teammates this year but he'll still be a top playmaker in the league.

[Moranis]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

By who's definition?

You do understand that the number of people who have posted seasons like that is a very short list and of some pretty good players, right?   Aside from Rondo, 4 of the other 6 players who had done that since 2000 are are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams.  All 4 received a max contract in their careers.  Of the other two, Vasquez and Andre Miller only did it once.  Vasquez is still young, just off his rookie deal.

I suspect that GMs value players a little different than a lot of fans do.

You know what those other 4 players did/do that Rondo doesn't.  They shoot the ball very well from the outside.  They score points at a much great clip than Rondo.  They could all be a #1 or #2 scoring option.  Rondo isn't that guy.  I mean even Kidd could be that guy (Kidd is nearly 10% points higher on his career from 3 point range and over 15% from the line, and Kidd is the second worst shooter of that 5 man grouping). 

Rondo is not a max player because he can't be the best player on a championship team.  He could certainly be a second player on a title team with the right #1 guy, but I think he slots more realistically as a #3 player.  His skill set serves a complimentary role and as such he should be paid as a complimentary player, which I would peg in the 10-15 million range annually depending on how he looks this year (if he returns to form 15 million, if he doesn't something less).

[Celtics4ever]

You know what those other 4 players did/do that Rondo doesn't.  They shoot the ball very well from the outside.  They score points at a much great clip than Rondo.

Not to mention how this makes defense play honest and not pack it in as if he could shoot it would spread the floor, double team another guy or rest a player on defense against him.