Like it or not, Ainge in driver's seat for Love

[Moranis]

1.  Cavs will not offer #1 pick.
2.  Sixers will not offer #3 pick.
3.  Golden State will not offer Klay Thompson in a package.
4.  Wizards will not offer up Bradley Beal.
5.  Lakers and Knicks do not have the assets.
6.  Houston will not offer Harden, and otherwise do not have the assets.
7.  Chicago is interesting, but the best pick they can offer is #16.
8.  Ok City will not offer Westbrook.
9.  Pheonix is intriguing (like Chicago), but their best pick is #14. 

Multiple 1sts and Bledsoe from Suns might be closest, realistic competition.  But I believe Ainge can beat that too, IF HE WANTS TO DO SO. 

My final offer would be Sullinger, Bogans, Anthony + expirings, 2014 #6 pick, 2015 and 2016 Celtic 1sts.  Brooklyn picks?  NO.  Four 1sts?  NO.  Even the offer I have presented is probably too much. 

I also like the idea of trading our picks so Cs fans don't have to sit and cheer for losses at any point of the next two seasons.

Chicago's best asset to offer is Nikola Mrotic.  He's 23, generally considered the best player in Europe, and would easily go in the top 5 if in this year's draft.  He's also a stretch 4, and so would be redundant with Love on the roster.  If I were Minny, and the Bulls offered me Mrotic, their two picks this year, and Boozer, I'd take that deal over the Celtics offer.

Of course, I think Mrotic is why the Bulls don't end up pursuing Love. With him and Gibson on the roster, adding Melo would make a lot more sense.  They have no real way of acquiring both Love and Melo.

you don't have glen taylors bank balance in mind, he have to pay boozer and mirotic, boozer is due $15mil, and mirotic plays for real madrid,  mirotic wouldn't come cheap if he'll come to sota. The only way would be for the bulls to amensty boozer, and acquire love using cap space, but the bulls owner is cheap, and might not wanna do that

Boozer is an expiring contract that makes in the neighborhood of Love though.  That salary is pretty much a wash.  Mrotic obviously won't be cheap, but he is a solid player at a position Minnesota could use a solid player.  I also suspect Minnesota includes at least Brewer and maybe Martin back to Chicago in the trade which should open up enough room to sign Mrotic.  I could also see a team like Boston getting into that sort of trade where Boston takes on Boozer for say Bass, Anthony, and Bogans and pick up another first in the draft.  That way less salary goes to Minnesota.

That said I don't see the point in Love for Chicago.  They have Gibson and Noah down low and have Mrotic that can fill in at the 4 if needed.  Anthony or a SG makes a lot more sense for them, which is why I don't think they ever seriously entertain acquiring Love until it is clear they can't land Anthony.

[Sixth Man]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

No, but there is an indication that Rondo will sign a long-term contract with us once reaching free agency.  Don't confuse wanting to reach free agency to sign a contract with being unwilling to stay in Boston.

Will Love stay in Boston if he's traded here?  I don't think anyone knows, including Love.  He might like it here, he might not.  But I would certainly bet on Love staying if the trade were made.  We can offer him more years, more money per year, and an environment where championships are the goal, and not merely making the post-season.  There's certainly a risk, and that should lower the price paid, but the risk is less than some posters would have you believe.  All we know is he's from California and he's tired of losing.  If we win with him, especially with a roster that's built for sustained success, I think the winning will trump California pretty quickly.  Besides, it's not like the Lakers are making the playoffs next year,  and if they do, they probably won't have room for Love in 2015.

TP.

For some reason people keep conveniently leaving this point out of their argument about "no certainty he will sign an extension". Not sure if it's convenience or ignorance. The same reason Love won't sign an extension right away is the same reason why Rondo won't sign an extension right away. It doesn't make sense financially for them to do so ahead of Free Agency where they have the chance to maybe earn more. It doesn't make sense for even Danny to offer one anyway and ruin his cap flexibility before he even has to which is why he'd be fine with making the RIGHT trade to bring Love in even without an extension.

You have completely missed my point, and based on that misinterpretation, rather insultingly made the highlighted comment.  Of course RR and KL are interested in seeing what the free agent market might offer - they'd be fools not to.  My point, however, is that giving up a big package of assets for KL might not result in his ultimately signing a long-term deal with the Celts.  If you surrender Sully and three 1sts, as mooted here, and then KL bolts, you've blown the entire rebuild and set the franchise back 3-4 years. 

[bucknersrevenge]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

No, but there is an indication that Rondo will sign a long-term contract with us once reaching free agency.  Don't confuse wanting to reach free agency to sign a contract with being unwilling to stay in Boston.

Will Love stay in Boston if he's traded here?  I don't think anyone knows, including Love.  He might like it here, he might not.  But I would certainly bet on Love staying if the trade were made.  We can offer him more years, more money per year, and an environment where championships are the goal, and not merely making the post-season.  There's certainly a risk, and that should lower the price paid, but the risk is less than some posters would have you believe.  All we know is he's from California and he's tired of losing.  If we win with him, especially with a roster that's built for sustained success, I think the winning will trump California pretty quickly.  Besides, it's not like the Lakers are making the playoffs next year,  and if they do, they probably won't have room for Love in 2015.

TP.

For some reason people keep conveniently leaving this point out of their argument about "no certainty he will sign an extension". Not sure if it's convenience or ignorance. The same reason Love won't sign an extension right away is the same reason why Rondo won't sign an extension right away. It doesn't make sense financially for them to do so ahead of Free Agency where they have the chance to maybe earn more. It doesn't make sense for even Danny to offer one anyway and ruin his cap flexibility before he even has to which is why he'd be fine with making the RIGHT trade to bring Love in even without an extension.

You have completely missed my point, and based on that misinterpretation, rather insultingly made the highlighted comment.  Of course RR and KL are interested in seeing what the free agent market might offer - they'd be fools not to.  My point, however, is that giving up a big package of assets for KL might not result in his ultimately signing a long-term deal with the Celts.  If you surrender Sully and three 1sts, as mooted here, and then KL bolts, you've blown the entire rebuild and set the franchise back 3-4 years.

No.

I did not miss your point. I get it. There is inherent risk in making a trade for a player that by rule does have the option of leaving you high and dry when he becomes a free agent. I understand that point completely. I just happen to think(and many others do as well) that depending on exactly what it would cost that Love is worth the risk. The upside in having him on our team is a calculated risk. And if Love is truly serious about simply wanting to win, he'd be a bonafide idiot not to see the absolute chasm that is the Eastern Conference. Him coming to Boston along with a couple of other shrewd moves could easily make us a Finals contender in the East where there is Miami and then everyone else. Even Indiana could fall back to the pack next year.

The point is, Given what we have to offer: stable ownership committed to winning(vs the nightmarish turnstile of GMs and coaches he has in Minny), an All-Star PG that can get him the ball, a young but competent coach already earning praise in coaching circles, a fan base that remains ravenous about the team even in a down year, a GM with a plan to make the team winners who has already done it before starting from a worse position last time, and a fraqnchise in a Conference with a ton of parity, I'd say Danny has a better shot to keep him here than other teams have to steal him away after he gets here.

I will say one thing about the "setting the franchise back 3-4 years" point. Obviously it's not our goal to do that. And the good thing here I think is that Danny probably already knows what he's willing to give up for Love. The only reason this deal doesn't go through is if Danny decides that Flip Saunders is asking for too much. If Danny walks away from the deal and decides to just make his 6 and 17 picks at the Draft I would be absolutely fine with that. I won't speak for anyone else but I certainly don't think it's Love or bust. It's Love for the right deal and in that matter I trust Danny's judgment.

[MBunge]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

No, but there is an indication that Rondo will sign a long-term contract with us once reaching free agency.  Don't confuse wanting to reach free agency to sign a contract with being unwilling to stay in Boston.

Will Love stay in Boston if he's traded here?  I don't think anyone knows, including Love.  He might like it here, he might not.  But I would certainly bet on Love staying if the trade were made.  We can offer him more years, more money per year, and an environment where championships are the goal, and not merely making the post-season.  There's certainly a risk, and that should lower the price paid, but the risk is less than some posters would have you believe.  All we know is he's from California and he's tired of losing.  If we win with him, especially with a roster that's built for sustained success, I think the winning will trump California pretty quickly.  Besides, it's not like the Lakers are making the playoffs next year,  and if they do, they probably won't have room for Love in 2015.

TP.

For some reason people keep conveniently leaving this point out of their argument about "no certainty he will sign an extension". Not sure if it's convenience or ignorance. The same reason Love won't sign an extension right away is the same reason why Rondo won't sign an extension right away. It doesn't make sense financially for them to do so ahead of Free Agency where they have the chance to maybe earn more. It doesn't make sense for even Danny to offer one anyway and ruin his cap flexibility before he even has to which is why he'd be fine with making the RIGHT trade to bring Love in even without an extension.

You have completely missed my point, and based on that misinterpretation, rather insultingly made the highlighted comment.  Of course RR and KL are interested in seeing what the free agent market might offer - they'd be fools not to.  My point, however, is that giving up a big package of assets for KL might not result in his ultimately signing a long-term deal with the Celts.  If you surrender Sully and three 1sts, as mooted here, and then KL bolts, you've blown the entire rebuild and set the franchise back 3-4 years.

I believe Boston has two 1sts for the next three years, can swap picks with Brooklyn the year after that and then two more 1sts the draft after that.  They also have possibly ANOTHER 1st round pick and will definitely have additional 2nd rounders.

There is no way they can use all those picks.  They would be cripplingly young and their salary structure would be impossible to manage.  One or more trades must be made.  Who are they going to trade for that is better than Love?  And if he leaves after one season, Boston will still have a first round pick every year, they should be high lottery picks and they'd have cap room.  How does that "blow" the rebuild.

Mike

[BballTim]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

  There's plenty to indicate that Rondo would sign a long term contract with the team.


 

[Sixth Man]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

No, but there is an indication that Rondo will sign a long-term contract with us once reaching free agency.  Don't confuse wanting to reach free agency to sign a contract with being unwilling to stay in Boston.

Will Love stay in Boston if he's traded here?  I don't think anyone knows, including Love.  He might like it here, he might not.  But I would certainly bet on Love staying if the trade were made.  We can offer him more years, more money per year, and an environment where championships are the goal, and not merely making the post-season.  There's certainly a risk, and that should lower the price paid, but the risk is less than some posters would have you believe.  All we know is he's from California and he's tired of losing.  If we win with him, especially with a roster that's built for sustained success, I think the winning will trump California pretty quickly.  Besides, it's not like the Lakers are making the playoffs next year,  and if they do, they probably won't have room for Love in 2015.

TP.

For some reason people keep conveniently leaving this point out of their argument about "no certainty he will sign an extension". Not sure if it's convenience or ignorance. The same reason Love won't sign an extension right away is the same reason why Rondo won't sign an extension right away. It doesn't make sense financially for them to do so ahead of Free Agency where they have the chance to maybe earn more. It doesn't make sense for even Danny to offer one anyway and ruin his cap flexibility before he even has to which is why he'd be fine with making the RIGHT trade to bring Love in even without an extension.

You have completely missed my point, and based on that misinterpretation, rather insultingly made the highlighted comment.  Of course RR and KL are interested in seeing what the free agent market might offer - they'd be fools not to.  My point, however, is that giving up a big package of assets for KL might not result in his ultimately signing a long-term deal with the Celts.  If you surrender Sully and three 1sts, as mooted here, and then KL bolts, you've blown the entire rebuild and set the franchise back 3-4 years.

I believe Boston has two 1sts for the next three years, can swap picks with Brooklyn the year after that and then two more 1sts the draft after that.  They also have possibly ANOTHER 1st round pick and will definitely have additional 2nd rounders.

There is no way they can use all those picks.  They would be cripplingly young and their salary structure would be impossible to manage.  One or more trades must be made.  Who are they going to trade for that is better than Love?  And if he leaves after one season, Boston will still have a first round pick every year, they should be high lottery picks and they'd have cap room.  How does that "blow" the rebuild.

Mike

I agree that it's extremely likely that DA will trade some of those picks in time, but that does not mean that he must trade some for K. Love now.  As I said earlier in the thread, 2015 would be a better window for making such a trade.

If you give up Sully and three 1st rounders for KL and he bolts for another team after one year, you've been taken to the cleaners and ownership would be furious, to say nothing of the fans' reactions.  You'd still have 6 firsts over 4 years, but no Sully either.  With Olynyk, Green and RR, you wouldn't have much of a base to build around, and why then would Rondo reup with the Celts?  He might, but if he didn't want to continue to play for a big loser, he'd be gone with no compensation.  No way DA, or ownership, will assume such risks.

[Sixth Man]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

  There's plenty to indicate that Rondo would sign a long term contract with the team.

Please enlighten me, then...

[Sixth Man]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

No, but there is an indication that Rondo will sign a long-term contract with us once reaching free agency.  Don't confuse wanting to reach free agency to sign a contract with being unwilling to stay in Boston.

Will Love stay in Boston if he's traded here?  I don't think anyone knows, including Love.  He might like it here, he might not.  But I would certainly bet on Love staying if the trade were made.  We can offer him more years, more money per year, and an environment where championships are the goal, and not merely making the post-season.  There's certainly a risk, and that should lower the price paid, but the risk is less than some posters would have you believe.  All we know is he's from California and he's tired of losing.  If we win with him, especially with a roster that's built for sustained success, I think the winning will trump California pretty quickly.  Besides, it's not like the Lakers are making the playoffs next year,  and if they do, they probably won't have room for Love in 2015.

TP.

For some reason people keep conveniently leaving this point out of their argument about "no certainty he will sign an extension". Not sure if it's convenience or ignorance. The same reason Love won't sign an extension right away is the same reason why Rondo won't sign an extension right away. It doesn't make sense financially for them to do so ahead of Free Agency where they have the chance to maybe earn more. It doesn't make sense for even Danny to offer one anyway and ruin his cap flexibility before he even has to which is why he'd be fine with making the RIGHT trade to bring Love in even without an extension.

You have completely missed my point, and based on that misinterpretation, rather insultingly made the highlighted comment.  Of course RR and KL are interested in seeing what the free agent market might offer - they'd be fools not to.  My point, however, is that giving up a big package of assets for KL might not result in his ultimately signing a long-term deal with the Celts.  If you surrender Sully and three 1sts, as mooted here, and then KL bolts, you've blown the entire rebuild and set the franchise back 3-4 years.

No.

I did not miss your point. I get it. There is inherent risk in making a trade for a player that by rule does have the option of leaving you high and dry when he becomes a free agent. I understand that point completely. I just happen to think(and many others do as well) that depending on exactly what it would cost that Love is worth the risk. The upside in having him on our team is a calculated risk. And if Love is truly serious about simply wanting to win, he'd be a bonafide idiot not to see the absolute chasm that is the Eastern Conference. Him coming to Boston along with a couple of other shrewd moves could easily make us a Finals contender in the East where there is Miami and then everyone else. Even Indiana could fall back to the pack next year.

The point is, Given what we have to offer: stable ownership committed to winning(vs the nightmarish turnstile of GMs and coaches he has in Minny), an All-Star PG that can get him the ball, a young but competent coach already earning praise in coaching circles, a fan base that remains ravenous about the team even in a down year, a GM with a plan to make the team winners who has already done it before starting from a worse position last time, and a fraqnchise in a Conference with a ton of parity, I'd say Danny has a better shot to keep him here than other teams have to steal him away after he gets here.

I will say one thing about the "setting the franchise back 3-4 years" point. Obviously it's not our goal to do that. And the good thing here I think is that Danny probably already knows what he's willing to give up for Love. The only reason this deal doesn't go through is if Danny decides that Flip Saunders is asking for too much. If Danny walks away from the deal and decides to just make his 6 and 17 picks at the Draft I would be absolutely fine with that. I won't speak for anyone else but I certainly don't think it's Love or bust. It's Love for the right deal and in that matter I trust Danny's judgment.

'Not sure if it's convenience or ignorance' you wrote.  Yeah, you missed my point.  And phrased it as an insult, to boot. 

If nothing else, I admire your versatility...!

[BballTim]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

  There's plenty to indicate that Rondo would sign a long term contract with the team.

Please enlighten me, then...

  He's pretty much said so.

[indeedproceed]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

  There's plenty to indicate that Rondo would sign a long term contract with the team.

Please enlighten me, then...

  He's pretty much said so.

He's also said that he wants to explore free agency too, hasn't he? Something like, 'I'm looking forward to it, I've never been in that situation before'?

[Sixth Man]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

  There's plenty to indicate that Rondo would sign a long term contract with the team.

Please enlighten me, then...

  He's pretty much said so.

Which means that you've pretty much said that he's pretty much said so.  Thanks for the clarification and also for not burdening me with an actual quote from Rondo...

[goCeltics]

1.  Cavs will not offer #1 pick.
2.  Sixers will not offer #3 pick.
3.  Golden State will not offer Klay Thompson in a package.
4.  Wizards will not offer up Bradley Beal.
5.  Lakers and Knicks do not have the assets.
6.  Houston will not offer Harden, and otherwise do not have the assets.
7.  Chicago is interesting, but the best pick they can offer is #16.
8.  Ok City will not offer Westbrook.
9.  Pheonix is intriguing (like Chicago), but their best pick is #14. 

Multiple 1sts and Bledsoe from Suns might be closest, realistic competition.  But I believe Ainge can beat that too, IF HE WANTS TO DO SO. 

My final offer would be Sullinger, Bogans, Anthony + expirings, 2014 #6 pick, 2015 and 2016 Celtic 1sts.  Brooklyn picks?  NO.  Four 1sts?  NO.  Even the offer I have presented is probably too much. 

I also like the idea of trading our picks so Cs fans don't have to sit and cheer for losses at any point of the next two seasons.

Chicago's best asset to offer is Nikola Mrotic.  He's 23, generally considered the best player in Europe, and would easily go in the top 5 if in this year's draft.  He's also a stretch 4, and so would be redundant with Love on the roster.  If I were Minny, and the Bulls offered me Mrotic, their two picks this year, and Boozer, I'd take that deal over the Celtics offer.

Of course, I think Mrotic is why the Bulls don't end up pursuing Love. With him and Gibson on the roster, adding Melo would make a lot more sense.  They have no real way of acquiring both Love and Melo.

you don't have glen taylors bank balance in mind, he have to pay boozer and mirotic, boozer is due $15mil, and mirotic plays for real madrid,  mirotic wouldn't come cheap if he'll come to sota. The only way would be for the bulls to amensty boozer, and acquire love using cap space, but the bulls owner is cheap, and might not wanna do that

Boozer is an expiring contract that makes in the neighborhood of Love though.  That salary is pretty much a wash.  Mrotic obviously won't be cheap, but he is a solid player at a position Minnesota could use a solid player.  I also suspect Minnesota includes at least Brewer and maybe Martin back to Chicago in the trade which should open up enough room to sign Mrotic.  I could also see a team like Boston getting into that sort of trade where Boston takes on Boozer for say Bass, Anthony, and Bogans and pick up another first in the draft.  That way less salary goes to Minnesota.

That said I don't see the point in Love for Chicago.  They have Gibson and Noah down low and have Mrotic that can fill in at the 4 if needed.  Anthony or a SG makes a lot more sense for them, which is why I don't think they ever seriously entertain acquiring Love until it is clear they can't land Anthony.

good luck getting glen taylor to pay carlos $16.8 mil, if they trade love they're tanking and shedding salary. not taking on salary, c's have a huge advantage with financial flexibility wise, btw i doubt they wanna assit with love to chitown trade either by taking on boozer contract, good luck with that.

[Lucky17]

Glen Taylor is a billionaire who just made a cash offer for full 100% ownership of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10997942/minnesota-timberwolves-owner-glen-taylor-signs-star-tribune-purchase-deal

I'm sure he'd have no problem taking on Boozer's expiring deal in a Love trade. That's peanuts to him. If he really needed to, I bet he could buy out Boozer for 75 or 80 cents on the dollar.

Boozer, rights to Mirotic, and two 2014 picks in the teens is a competitive offer for Love.

[More Banners]

Can I just say again that Sully and #6 and immediate cap relief should be enough to bring in most players in the NBA, and perhaps also a future 1st for a perennial allstar.

If we're not sending out too much baggage, or taking back too much, Sully and #6 should be the principal assets going out, and that's about it.

But Ainge could always up the offer if the bidding gets crazy, but that #6 and Sully is quite a bit to give up already.  I mean, we're theoretically talking about trading two future borderline allstars, right?

[saltlover]

Glen Taylor is a billionaire who just made a cash offer for full 100% ownership of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10997942/minnesota-timberwolves-owner-glen-taylor-signs-star-tribune-purchase-deal

I'm sure he'd have no problem taking on Boozer's expiring deal in a Love trade. That's peanuts to him. If he really needed to, I bet he could buy out Boozer for 75 or 80 cents on the dollar.

Boozer, rights to Mirotic, and two 2014 picks in the teens is a competitive offer for Love.

I completely agree that the Wolves would do that deal.  They could even just wait a year on Mrotic so that his buyout with his Spanish team doesn't get in the way, since they wouldn't have the cap room to sign him and the MLE might not be enough.  They could even keep Boozer if they wanted to continue to attempt being competitive.

I very much think the Bulls could offer more than the Celtics.  I just don't think it makes sense for them to do so, and using Boozer as the outgoing salary in a sign-and-trade for Melo, and keeping a frontcourt of Mrotic, Gibson, and Noah, makes a lot more sense for their team.