Like it or not, Ainge in driver's seat for Love

[LarBrd33]

1.  Cavs will not offer #1 pick.
2.  Sixers will not offer #3 pick.
3.  Golden State will not offer Klay Thompson in a package.
4.  Wizards will not offer up Bradley Beal.
5.  Lakers and Knicks do not have the assets.
6.  Houston will not offer Harden, and otherwise do not have the assets.
7.  Chicago is interesting, but the best pick they can offer is #16.
8.  Ok City will not offer Westbrook.
9.  Pheonix is intriguing (like Chicago), but their best pick is #14. 

Multiple 1sts and Bledsoe from Suns might be closest, realistic competition.  But I believe Ainge can beat that too, IF HE WANTS TO DO SO. 

My final offer would be Sullinger, Bogans, Anthony + expirings, 2014 #6 pick, 2015 and 2016 Celtic 1sts.  Brooklyn picks?  NO.  Four 1sts?  NO.  Even the offer I have presented is probably too much. 

I also like the idea of trading our picks so Cs fans don't have to sit and cheer for losses at any point of the next two seasons.

We don't know for sure what other teams are willing to give up.  There's 28 teams other than Boston that would probably like to add Kevin Love.  Who knows what kind of offers the Wolves will get.  Never know what might get offered... could be a team that isn't even being reported.  The WOlves might just decide to hang onto him too...

Shoot, maybe they'll offer up #13, Rubio and filler for Rondo in an effort to convince Love to stay. 

Ainge isn't in the driver's seat.  The Wolves are. 

[saltlover]

why be so quick to give up number 6# if we dont have to.

jeff green and sullinger plus the 17th pick and future pick is still better then most could offer if minny like a better deal throw in #6 

I think it is because by giving up the #6, DA can hang onto more of those future picks that everyone finds to be so valuable and don't want to give up.

If we give up #17, DA risks not offering the best package and would have to offer more of those future picks to sweeten the pot for Minny.

Also, why include Green? If the Cs are trading Love with eyes on contention, it would make sense to keep Green who is a serviceable scorer/defender from the wing in his prime on a reasonable contract. I'm not saying he is irreplaceable, but if we move him in this deal then it is just one more hole to be filled. Seems like he could be a placeholder of sorts until DA finds another SF he likes (and needs Green's contract as trade filler) or his contract expires in a few seasons.

i think its too much. DA got a better chance of moving the number 6 pick with wallace  to free up cap space for that 3rd piece(melo who can opt out any time) .  even pierce can be signed for less and we still have cap to sign more players to contend

i dont see a trade we can make with #17 and jeff green unless its for a center and we cant just let bradley walk. we need cap space.

knicks would have almost no choice but to take the number 6 pick plus walace if they atleast want something in return

Let's see -- trade #6 to get rid of Wallace and hope a single player signs here (because if you're re-signing AB, you'll have room for one not-quite-max player), or trade #6, Sully, and filler for Love, while still keeping the trade exception to add a center like Asik, as well as the mid-level to sign more help as well, and keep room for AB.  I think I know which team is better, and it's not the one with the almighty cap space.  It's the one that's $15 million over the cap.

[colincb]

There is a wild card here: Love controlling where he wants to go. He can simply say "I will not sign there." That makes all of this pure speculation. Ultimately I think Boston ranks 4th behind these three teams: Lakers, Warriors and Rockets.

Ainge has said he'd trade for Love without an extension.

I think those are different things.  Ainge doesn't expect Love to sign an extension (although one would certainly be offered) because it doesn't make sense for Love to do so.  Understanding this, Ainge isn't going to stand on ceremony about it.  This is the same thing with Rondo, and why Rondo won't be traded simply because he hasn't signed an extension.  Ainge feels that by being able to at least match any offer made to the players due to having their Bird rights, he'll be able to keep them in Boston, and so isn't concerned about an extension.

However, if Love's agent told Ainge that Love didn't see himself wanting to stay in Boston after this year, even if offered a max deal, I think that Ainge would back away from a trade.

Agreed.

Agreed X 2

Agreed X3.

It's best for Love financially to go wherer he wants to end up playing AND then not sign the extension AND then re-sign for 5 years with that team. If he comes to Boston and leaves, it would cost him money. I expect he'll end up where he intends to eventually re-sign. Ainge will have a side agreement with Love and his agent before Ainge does a deal. Same with any other team Love goes to.

By and large I agree with the OP's assessment of the suitors, but I wouldn't give up 3 firsts, especially without protection. Fear Bulls the most, but they're cheap. Cavs could put top deal together, but I have trouble seeing Love agreeing to go to a team with management  than the TWolves.

[GreenWarrior]

couple things here.

if we get Love you can guarantee we will have to absorb another bad contract. green or Wallace I think would have to be involved to make the deal work financially. so either way we're going to be stuck with a bad contract regardless of weather we get Love or not.

I don't know how many times I can say this enough or how else to stress this to those saying "get Love at all costs, because we'll compete right now."

if we get Love we will be better. True.

if he leaves after 1 yr. and we dumped every pick we own to get him we're right back we're we were this yr. with less to show for it. what is the point "competing" for 1 yr.?

if this was Lebron or Durant and we were taking this chance i'd say sure. but Love is not worth multiple picks.

And those picks HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH COVETING SOME KID COMING OUT OF COLLEGE THAT WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT! IT'S ABOUT ASSETS!

If we dump all those assets into Love then we have no more to improve the team. what's not to understand here?

[Lucky17]

couple things here.

if we get Love you can guarantee we will have to absorb another bad contract. green or Wallace I think would have to be involved to make the deal work financially. so either way we're going to be stuck with a bad contract regardless of weather we get Love or not.

I don't know how many times I can say this enough or how else to stress this to those saying "get Love at all costs, because we'll compete right now."

if we get Love we will be better. True.

if he leaves after 1 yr. and we dumped every pick we own to get him we're right back we're we were this yr. with less to show for it. what is the point "competing" for 1 yr.?

if this was Lebron or Durant and we were taking this chance i'd say sure. but Love is not worth multiple picks.

And those picks HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH COVETING SOME KID COMING OUT OF COLLEGE THAT WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT! IT'S ABOUT ASSETS!

If we dump all those assets into Love then we have no more to improve the team. what's not to understand here?

By all means, Ainge should have a threshold past which he should not budge. But, he cannot possibly trade every asset to get Love. Boston has the rights to nine or so 1st rounders over the next five years, and there's the Stepien Rule to boot.

Parting with as many as three of those picks shouldn't be an issue. Especially when it also acquires Love's Bird Rights.

[D.o.s.]

There is a wild card here: Love controlling where he wants to go. He can simply say "I will not sign there." That makes all of this pure speculation. Ultimately I think Boston ranks 4th behind these three teams: Lakers, Warriors and Rockets.

Ainge has said he'd trade for Love without an extension.

I think those are different things.  Ainge doesn't expect Love to sign an extension (although one would certainly be offered) because it doesn't make sense for Love to do so.  Understanding this, Ainge isn't going to stand on ceremony about it.  This is the same thing with Rondo, and why Rondo won't be traded simply because he hasn't signed an extension.  Ainge feels that by being able to at least match any offer made to the players due to having their Bird rights, he'll be able to keep them in Boston, and so isn't concerned about an extension.

However, if Love's agent told Ainge that Love didn't see himself wanting to stay in Boston after this year, even if offered a max deal, I think that Ainge would back away from a trade.

Agreed.

Agreed X 2

Agreed X3.

It's best for Love financially to go wherer he wants to end up playing AND then not sign the extension AND then re-sign for 5 years with that team. If he comes to Boston and leaves, it would cost him money. I expect he'll end up where he intends to eventually re-sign. Ainge will have a side agreement with Love and his agent before Ainge does a deal. Same with any other team Love goes to.

By and large I agree with the OP's assessment of the suitors, but I wouldn't give up 3 firsts, especially without protection. Fear Bulls the most, but they're cheap. Cavs could put top deal together, but I have trouble seeing Love agreeing to go to a team with management  than the TWolves.

Although you can ask this year's Lakers what it's like to get burned by a free agent you were positive you'd be able to resign.

[colincb]

if we get Love you can guarantee we will have to absorb another bad contract. green or Wallace I think would have to be involved to make the deal work financially. so either way we're going to be stuck with a bad contract regardless of weather we get Love or not. ...

We can absorb another contract (like Martin's) with Pierce's trade exception (unless TWs wanted Green - no one wants Wallace). Martin would fill a need as a shooter off the bench and his contract isn't awful.

In any case, Wolves likely looking for players above picks (short-term playoffs for the fans vs long-term rebuilding which I think would be best to contend). Hurts our chances if some team can put a deal together that works with players that fit and whom TWolves want (not David Lee, Boozer, or Asik+Lin).

[colincb]

There is a wild card here: Love controlling where he wants to go. He can simply say "I will not sign there." That makes all of this pure speculation. Ultimately I think Boston ranks 4th behind these three teams: Lakers, Warriors and Rockets.

Ainge has said he'd trade for Love without an extension.

I think those are different things.  Ainge doesn't expect Love to sign an extension (although one would certainly be offered) because it doesn't make sense for Love to do so.  Understanding this, Ainge isn't going to stand on ceremony about it.  This is the same thing with Rondo, and why Rondo won't be traded simply because he hasn't signed an extension.  Ainge feels that by being able to at least match any offer made to the players due to having their Bird rights, he'll be able to keep them in Boston, and so isn't concerned about an extension.

However, if Love's agent told Ainge that Love didn't see himself wanting to stay in Boston after this year, even if offered a max deal, I think that Ainge would back away from a trade.

Agreed.

Agreed X 2

Agreed X3.

It's best for Love financially to go wherer he wants to end up playing AND then not sign the extension AND then re-sign for 5 years with that team. If he comes to Boston and leaves, it would cost him money. I expect he'll end up where he intends to eventually re-sign. Ainge will have a side agreement with Love and his agent before Ainge does a deal. Same with any other team Love goes to.

By and large I agree with the OP's assessment of the suitors, but I wouldn't give up 3 firsts, especially without protection. Fear Bulls the most, but they're cheap. Cavs could put top deal together, but I have trouble seeing Love agreeing to go to a team with management  than the TWolves.

Although you can ask this year's Lakers what it's like to get burned by a free agent you were positive you'd be able to resign.

Doubt D12 gave any assurances and maybe the last guy in the NBA I would count on to not change his mind even if he had.

[GreenWarrior]

if we get Love you can guarantee we will have to absorb another bad contract. green or Wallace I think would have to be involved to make the deal work financially. so either way we're going to be stuck with a bad contract regardless of weather we get Love or not. ...

We can absorb another contract (like Martin's) with Pierce's trade exception (unless TWs wanted Green - no one wants Wallace). Martin would fill a need as a shooter off the bench and his contract isn't awful.

In any case, Wolves likely looking for players above picks (short-term playoffs for the fans vs long-term rebuilding which I think would be best to contend). Hurts our chances if some team can put a deal together that works with players that fit and whom TWolves want (not David Lee, Boozer, or Asik+Lin).

I don't think the wolves will get the players to compete in any trade they make. and they're not getting a player of Love's talent in return. sully right now is a poor man's Kevin Love. the best offer if it's players they're looking for will come from golden state. but what they'll get won't be enough. not in the west. 

[goCeltics]

1.  Cavs will not offer #1 pick.
2.  Sixers will not offer #3 pick.
3.  Golden State will not offer Klay Thompson in a package.
4.  Wizards will not offer up Bradley Beal.
5.  Lakers and Knicks do not have the assets.
6.  Houston will not offer Harden, and otherwise do not have the assets.
7.  Chicago is interesting, but the best pick they can offer is #16.
8.  Ok City will not offer Westbrook.
9.  Pheonix is intriguing (like Chicago), but their best pick is #14. 

Multiple 1sts and Bledsoe from Suns might be closest, realistic competition.  But I believe Ainge can beat that too, IF HE WANTS TO DO SO. 

My final offer would be Sullinger, Bogans, Anthony + expirings, 2014 #6 pick, 2015 and 2016 Celtic 1sts.  Brooklyn picks?  NO.  Four 1sts?  NO.  Even the offer I have presented is probably too much. 

I also like the idea of trading our picks so Cs fans don't have to sit and cheer for losses at any point of the next two seasons.

Chicago's best asset to offer is Nikola Mrotic.  He's 23, generally considered the best player in Europe, and would easily go in the top 5 if in this year's draft.  He's also a stretch 4, and so would be redundant with Love on the roster.  If I were Minny, and the Bulls offered me Mrotic, their two picks this year, and Boozer, I'd take that deal over the Celtics offer.

Of course, I think Mrotic is why the Bulls don't end up pursuing Love. With him and Gibson on the roster, adding Melo would make a lot more sense.  They have no real way of acquiring both Love and Melo.

you don't have glen taylors bank balance in mind, he have to pay boozer and mirotic, boozer is due $15mil, and mirotic plays for real madrid,  mirotic wouldn't come cheap if he'll come to sota. The only way would be for the bulls to amensty boozer, and acquire love using cap space, but the bulls owner is cheap, and might not wanna do that

[jc3celticsphan]

why be so quick to give up number 6# if we dont have to.

jeff green and sullinger plus the 17th pick and future pick is still better then most could offer if minny like a better deal throw in #6 

I think it is because by giving up the #6, DA can hang onto more of those future picks that everyone finds to be so valuable and don't want to give up.

If we give up #17, DA risks not offering the best package and would have to offer more of those future picks to sweeten the pot for Minny.

Also, why include Green? If the Cs are trading Love with eyes on contention, it would make sense to keep Green who is a serviceable scorer/defender from the wing in his prime on a reasonable contract. I'm not saying he is irreplaceable, but if we move him in this deal then it is just one more hole to be filled. Seems like he could be a placeholder of sorts until DA finds another SF he likes (and needs Green's contract as trade filler) or his contract expires in a few seasons.

i think its too much. DA got a better chance of moving the number 6 pick with wallace  to free up cap space for that 3rd piece(melo who can opt out any time) .  even pierce can be signed for less and we still have cap to sign more players to contend

i dont see a trade we can make with #17 and jeff green unless its for a center and we cant just let bradley walk. we need cap space.

knicks would have almost no choice but to take the number 6 pick plus walace if they atleast want something in return

Let's see -- trade #6 to get rid of Wallace and hope a single player signs here (because if you're re-signing AB, you'll have room for one not-quite-max player), or trade #6, Sully, and filler for Love, while still keeping the trade exception to add a center like Asik, as well as the mid-level to sign more help as well, and keep room for AB.  I think I know which team is better, and it's not the one with the almighty cap space.  It's the one that's $15 million over the cap.

either way it doesnt matter you secure love without your biggest asset either its for cap space or trade for the 3rd piece  even drafting the best player available in this draft at #6 is still a really good asset.

just because the pick isnt in the top 3 doesnt mean we dont come out with one of the best players in this draft

sorry but love and rondo is not going to get it done for us in the east against the heat

[86MaxwellSmart]

why be so quick to give up number 6# if we dont have to.

jeff green and sullinger plus the 17th pick and future pick is still better then most could offer if minny like a better deal throw in #6 

I think it is because by giving up the #6, DA can hang onto more of those future picks that everyone finds to be so valuable and don't want to give up.

If we give up #17, DA risks not offering the best package and would have to offer more of those future picks to sweeten the pot for Minny.

Also, why include Green? If the Cs are trading Love with eyes on contention, it would make sense to keep Green who is a serviceable scorer/defender from the wing in his prime on a reasonable contract. I'm not saying he is irreplaceable, but if we move him in this deal then it is just one more hole to be filled. Seems like he could be a placeholder of sorts until DA finds another SF he likes (and needs Green's contract as trade filler) or his contract expires in a few seasons.

i think its too much. DA got a better chance of moving the number 6 pick with wallace  to free up cap space for that 3rd piece(melo who can opt out any time) .  even pierce can be signed for less and we still have cap to sign more players to contend

i dont see a trade we can make with #17 and jeff green unless its for a center and we cant just let bradley walk. we need cap space.

knicks would have almost no choice but to take the number 6 pick plus walace if they atleast want something in return

Let's see -- trade #6 to get rid of Wallace and hope a single player signs here (because if you're re-signing AB, you'll have room for one not-quite-max player), or trade #6, Sully, and filler for Love, while still keeping the trade exception to add a center like Asik, as well as the mid-level to sign more help as well, and keep room for AB.  I think I know which team is better, and it's not the one with the almighty cap space.  It's the one that's $15 million over the cap.

either way it doesnt matter you secure love without your biggest asset either its for cap space or trade for the 3rd piece  even drafting the best player available in this draft at #6 is still a really good asset.

just because the pick isnt in the top 3 doesnt mean we dont come out with one of the best players in this draft

sorry but love and rondo is not going to get it done for us in the east against the heat

Love and Rondo would just be the start...just like when we got Ray Allen----EVERYONE was complaining about how PP and Ray Allen wouldn't win anything.

[colincb]

1.  Cavs will not offer #1 pick.
2.  Sixers will not offer #3 pick.
3.  Golden State will not offer Klay Thompson in a package.
4.  Wizards will not offer up Bradley Beal.
5.  Lakers and Knicks do not have the assets.
6.  Houston will not offer Harden, and otherwise do not have the assets.
7.  Chicago is interesting, but the best pick they can offer is #16.
8.  Ok City will not offer Westbrook.
9.  Pheonix is intriguing (like Chicago), but their best pick is #14. 

Multiple 1sts and Bledsoe from Suns might be closest, realistic competition.  But I believe Ainge can beat that too, IF HE WANTS TO DO SO. 

My final offer would be Sullinger, Bogans, Anthony + expirings, 2014 #6 pick, 2015 and 2016 Celtic 1sts.  Brooklyn picks?  NO.  Four 1sts?  NO.  Even the offer I have presented is probably too much. 

I also like the idea of trading our picks so Cs fans don't have to sit and cheer for losses at any point of the next two seasons.

Chicago's best asset to offer is Nikola Mrotic.  He's 23, generally considered the best player in Europe, and would easily go in the top 5 if in this year's draft.  He's also a stretch 4, and so would be redundant with Love on the roster.  If I were Minny, and the Bulls offered me Mrotic, their two picks this year, and Boozer, I'd take that deal over the Celtics offer.

Of course, I think Mrotic is why the Bulls don't end up pursuing Love. With him and Gibson on the roster, adding Melo would make a lot more sense.  They have no real way of acquiring both Love and Melo.

you don't have glen taylors bank balance in mind, he have to pay boozer and mirotic, boozer is due $15mil, and mirotic plays for real madrid,  mirotic wouldn't come cheap if he'll come to sota. The only way would be for the bulls to amensty boozer, and acquire love using cap space, but the bulls owner is cheap, and might not wanna do that

I've seen the same thoughts elsewhere more than once by people who follow the Bulls. Makes sense to me.

[Sixth Man]

At this point, there is no indication that Rondo (or Love, if acquired) will forgo free agency to sign a long-term contract with us.

No, but there is an indication that Rondo will sign a long-term contract with us once reaching free agency.  Don't confuse wanting to reach free agency to sign a contract with being unwilling to stay in Boston.

No, there is an indication that Rondo is willing to re-sign with the Celts, and that is a different situation than what you described.  Thanks for your concern, but I can assure you that I do understand the difference between his testing free agency and categorically eliminating the Celts from consideration.

[Sixth Man]

I'm baffled that there are some people who are so hesitant/afraid to bring Love aboard in an effort to contend and secure the Cs ability to contend in the next 5+ years...

I'd be happy to have K. Love on the Celts, just not for Sully and three 1st rounders, including our top pick in this draft.