Like it or not, Ainge in driver's seat for Love

[saltlover]

Danny Ainge just told us that he would be open to trading for a high caliber player in their last year without an agreement to an extension.

This is the comment that makes people think it is Love.  Ainge didn't mention Love, and has always said everyone is tradeable if the deal is right.

My final offer would be Sullinger, Bogans, Anthony + expirings, 2014 #6 pick, 2015 and 2016 Celtic 1sts.  Brooklyn picks? 

 

The Salaries do not match up. Anthony has a right to refuse any trade.  I think your offer  is too much.    I would toss out Sully, Bass and  Bogans and the # 6 pick for starters and see if they needed some more sugar to get the deal done.  Then offer one first at a time but I do not know if I would offer three.  My limit would be two.

Anthony has no such right to refuse a trade.  He can't be traded at the draft unless he agrees to pick up his option, or picks up the option before the draft.  But he's not walking away from his salary, whether he's in Boston, sent to Minnesota, or anywhere else.  Even if he refuses to pick up the option to facilitate the trade on draft night, he's tradeable on July 10th after he's picked up the option.  Love may want to be traded by July 1st, but that's just a desire.  If they agree to a trade on June 27th that can't be finalized until July 10th, it won't make a shred of difference.

That said, I am not at all in favor of trading three picks and Sullinger.  I think #6 and Sullinger or Olynyk (their choice) plus filler should trump any offer they get.  Certainly it's better than Sacto, as Sully is better than McLemore, #6 is better than #8, and as Sacto can't trade another first until 2017 at the earliest, it'll be tough to make up the difference with an extra draft pick.  It's better than Lakers.  If the Cavs come calling with #1 overall, then whatever, weren't going to trump that.  I don't think the Bulls will really be interested.  If Golden State decides that they're willing to make Klay Thomspon available, then maybe they'd win, but I think that depends on whether Minnesota feels like David Lee will be a long-term asset or liability, since he makes Love's defense look good.  Houston isn't offering Harden.  This 3 picks and Sully is nonsense, and two would be one more than you need, especially if we're not making them take much salary due to Bogans.

[nacceltic]

There is a wild card here: Love controlling where he wants to go. He can simply say "I will not sign there." That makes all of this pure speculation. Ultimately I think Boston ranks 4th behind these three teams: Lakers, Warriors and Rockets.

Ainge has said he'd trade for Love without an extension.

I think those are different things.  Ainge doesn't expect Love to sign an extension (although one would certainly be offered) because it doesn't make sense for Love to do so.  Understanding this, Ainge isn't going to stand on ceremony about it.  This is the same thing with Rondo, and why Rondo won't be traded simply because he hasn't signed an extension.  Ainge feels that by being able to at least match any offer made to the players due to having their Bird rights, he'll be able to keep them in Boston, and so isn't concerned about an extension.

However, if Love's agent told Ainge that Love didn't see himself wanting to stay in Boston after this year, even if offered a max deal, I think that Ainge would back away from a trade.

Completely agree with this...I've said all along, that when Ainge said he'd be willing to take a star without an extension it doesn't mean that he's willing to take that star for only one year...Ainge will NOT surrender assets, unless he has some kind of behind closed doors word that that star will sign an extension when the time comes. It's all about the agent relationship...Ainge knows the CBA and that more money awaits stars if they wait.

[GreenWarrior]

Danny Ainge just told us that he would be open to trading for a high caliber player in their last year without an agreement to an extension.

This is the comment that makes people think it is Love.  Ainge didn't mention Love, and has always said everyone is tradeable if the deal is right.

My final offer would be Sullinger, Bogans, Anthony + expirings, 2014 #6 pick, 2015 and 2016 Celtic 1sts.  Brooklyn picks? 

 

The Salaries do not match up. Anthony has a right to refuse any trade.  I think your offer  is too much.    I would toss out Sully, Bass and  Bogans and the # 6 pick for starters and see if they needed some more sugar to get the deal done.  Then offer one first at a time but I do not know if I would offer three.  My limit would be two.

Anthony has no such right to refuse a trade.  He can't be traded at the draft unless he agrees to pick up his option, or picks up the option before the draft.  But he's not walking away from his salary, whether he's in Boston, sent to Minnesota, or anywhere else.  Even if he refuses to pick up the option to facilitate the trade on draft night, he's tradeable on July 10th after he's picked up the option.  Love may want to be traded by July 1st, but that's just a desire.  If they agree to a trade on June 27th that can't be finalized until July 10th, it won't make a shred of difference.

That said, I am not at all in favor of trading three picks and Sullinger.  I think #6 and Sullinger or Olynyk (their choice) plus filler should trump any offer they get.  Certainly it's better than Sacto, as Sully is better than McLemore, #6 is better than #8, and as Sacto can't trade another first until 2017 at the earliest, it'll be tough to make up the difference with an extra draft pick.  It's better than Lakers.  If the Cavs come calling with #1 overall, then whatever, weren't going to trump that.  I don't think the Bulls will really be interested.  If Golden State decides that they're willing to make Klay Thomspon available, then maybe they'd win, but I think that depends on whether Minnesota feels like David Lee will be a long-term asset or liability, since he makes Love's defense look good.  Houston isn't offering Harden.  This 3 picks and Sully is nonsense, and two would be one more than you need, especially if we're not making them take much salary due to Bogans.

agree with all of that. sully(or olynk), #6 plus whatever garbage they want should be our offer. anything more is too much imo.

if Love decides to sign an extension before coming here then maybe I consider throwing in an additional pick. i'm not throwing the house at this guy if he's only going to be here a yr.

[Evantime34]

I honestly can't believe some of the proposed trade scenarios to get Love here. I want him, I like him as a player but he's not worth multiple 1sts. imo. our 6th, sully, & any number of players(minus rondo) to make the salaries work & maybe our 17th...but i'm not too big on that either

I look at this like trading for Asik. we have teams that are looking to get something, anything in return for players that don't want to be there. Now is the time to undersell.

like I said I do want Love here but there are multiple stipulations that go along with him coming here.

 - Rondo stays
 - Getting Love is a prelude to more moves to get 2 more stars here
 - we remain flexible to acquire these other stars
 - we don't overpay for love
 - we don't use the Brooklyn picks(i'd like to see what those become)

So you wouldn't do a deal if Minnesota wouldn't take less than 3 firsts? How about if they would only take two firsts?

While we don't want to bid against ourselves, I think we also need to make sure we are the highest bidder. If he is the player that can make us attractive to top level talent then it is worth slightly overpaying for him because his total value is more than just his production.

sorry I should have been more clear. i'm not using those Brooklyn picks to acquire Love. i'd seriously have to think about giving Minny 3 1sts though. Love is not KG. we don't have to overpay for this guy.

Love might not be as good as KG was, but we traded for KG at age 31, Kevin Love is only 25. The KG trade made us a contender for a couple of years before we had to retool. Kevin Love could help turn us into a contender for 10 years.

[GreenWarrior]

I honestly can't believe some of the proposed trade scenarios to get Love here. I want him, I like him as a player but he's not worth multiple 1sts. imo. our 6th, sully, & any number of players(minus rondo) to make the salaries work & maybe our 17th...but i'm not too big on that either

I look at this like trading for Asik. we have teams that are looking to get something, anything in return for players that don't want to be there. Now is the time to undersell.

like I said I do want Love here but there are multiple stipulations that go along with him coming here.

 - Rondo stays
 - Getting Love is a prelude to more moves to get 2 more stars here
 - we remain flexible to acquire these other stars
 - we don't overpay for love
 - we don't use the Brooklyn picks(i'd like to see what those become)

So you wouldn't do a deal if Minnesota wouldn't take less than 3 firsts? How about if they would only take two firsts?

While we don't want to bid against ourselves, I think we also need to make sure we are the highest bidder. If he is the player that can make us attractive to top level talent then it is worth slightly overpaying for him because his total value is more than just his production.

sorry I should have been more clear. i'm not using those Brooklyn picks to acquire Love. i'd seriously have to think about giving Minny 3 1sts though. Love is not KG. we don't have to overpay for this guy.

Love might not be as good as KG was, but we traded for KG at age 31, Kevin Love is only 25. The KG trade made us a contender for a couple of years before we had to retool. Kevin Love could help turn us into a contender for 10 years.

he could also only be here a yr. and to just beat the dead horse a little more, we throw 4 1st rnd. picks a Minny and he leaves after a yr. we're not left with much else.

it's not about coveting young unknowns in future drafts. it's about losing too many assets for a guy that's not worth it if he's only going to be here a yr.

we need to remain flexible.

[fandrew]

I honestly can't believe some of the proposed trade scenarios to get Love here. I want him, I like him as a player but he's not worth multiple 1sts. imo. our 6th, sully, & any number of players(minus rondo) to make the salaries work & maybe our 17th...but i'm not too big on that either

I look at this like trading for Asik. we have teams that are looking to get something, anything in return for players that don't want to be there. Now is the time to undersell.

like I said I do want Love here but there are multiple stipulations that go along with him coming here.

 - Rondo stays
 - Getting Love is a prelude to more moves to get 2 more stars here
 - we remain flexible to acquire these other stars
 - we don't overpay for love
 - we don't use the Brooklyn picks(i'd like to see what those become)

So you wouldn't do a deal if Minnesota wouldn't take less than 3 firsts? How about if they would only take two firsts?

While we don't want to bid against ourselves, I think we also need to make sure we are the highest bidder. If he is the player that can make us attractive to top level talent then it is worth slightly overpaying for him because his total value is more than just his production.

sorry I should have been more clear. i'm not using those Brooklyn picks to acquire Love. i'd seriously have to think about giving Minny 3 1sts though. Love is not KG. we don't have to overpay for this guy.

Love might not be as good as KG was, but we traded for KG at age 31, Kevin Love is only 25. The KG trade made us a contender for a couple of years before we had to retool. Kevin Love could help turn us into a contender for 10 years.

I think I wrote this somewhere, but maybe not. If Love was even a very good defensive player, and not great like KG, he would be worth 4 picks, much less 3. Personally I think that, because of his defensive deficiencies--and the need, the actual demand for a defensive specialist at center, it reduces his value. I also think that his demanding to be traded also reduces his value. I would trade at most (in terms of picks) our #6 2014, Clippers 2015, Celtics 2016 1st rounders. Though I would start with a low ball offer of our 2014 and Clippers 2015.

I imagine that Houston would still require a pick for Asik, but I would try to give them a right to swap instead.

[saltlover]

There is a wild card here: Love controlling where he wants to go. He can simply say "I will not sign there." That makes all of this pure speculation. Ultimately I think Boston ranks 4th behind these three teams: Lakers, Warriors and Rockets.

Ainge has said he'd trade for Love without an extension.

I think those are different things.  Ainge doesn't expect Love to sign an extension (although one would certainly be offered) because it doesn't make sense for Love to do so.  Understanding this, Ainge isn't going to stand on ceremony about it.  This is the same thing with Rondo, and why Rondo won't be traded simply because he hasn't signed an extension.  Ainge feels that by being able to at least match any offer made to the players due to having their Bird rights, he'll be able to keep them in Boston, and so isn't concerned about an extension.

However, if Love's agent told Ainge that Love didn't see himself wanting to stay in Boston after this year, even if offered a max deal, I think that Ainge would back away from a trade.

Completely agree with this...I've said all along, that when Ainge said he'd be willing to take a star without an extension it doesn't mean that he's willing to take that star for only one year...Ainge will NOT surrender assets, unless he has some kind of behind closed doors word that that star will sign an extension when the time comes. It's all about the agent relationship...Ainge knows the CBA and that more money awaits stars if they wait.

I don't think he needs a secret agreement.  I think he'd just need to know that Love would be open to re-signing in Boston.  If the agent says Love really wants to go to the West Coast, that should scare Danny away.  But if the agent says Love would look forward to playing this year in Boston and would consider re-signing depending how his experience in Boston went, then Ainge will be willing, because he'll think he can convince him to stay once he's been here for a year.

[Evantime34]

I honestly can't believe some of the proposed trade scenarios to get Love here. I want him, I like him as a player but he's not worth multiple 1sts. imo. our 6th, sully, & any number of players(minus rondo) to make the salaries work & maybe our 17th...but i'm not too big on that either

I look at this like trading for Asik. we have teams that are looking to get something, anything in return for players that don't want to be there. Now is the time to undersell.

like I said I do want Love here but there are multiple stipulations that go along with him coming here.

 - Rondo stays
 - Getting Love is a prelude to more moves to get 2 more stars here
 - we remain flexible to acquire these other stars
 - we don't overpay for love
 - we don't use the Brooklyn picks(i'd like to see what those become)

So you wouldn't do a deal if Minnesota wouldn't take less than 3 firsts? How about if they would only take two firsts?

While we don't want to bid against ourselves, I think we also need to make sure we are the highest bidder. If he is the player that can make us attractive to top level talent then it is worth slightly overpaying for him because his total value is more than just his production.

sorry I should have been more clear. i'm not using those Brooklyn picks to acquire Love. i'd seriously have to think about giving Minny 3 1sts though. Love is not KG. we don't have to overpay for this guy.

Love might not be as good as KG was, but we traded for KG at age 31, Kevin Love is only 25. The KG trade made us a contender for a couple of years before we had to retool. Kevin Love could help turn us into a contender for 10 years.

he could also only be here a yr. and to just beat the dead horse a little more, we throw 4 1st rnd. picks a Minny and he leaves after a yr. we're not left with much else.

it's not about coveting young unknowns in future drafts. it's about losing too many assets for a guy that's not worth it if he's only going to be here a yr.

we need to remain flexible.

I assume what we would offer would be in line with how long we could commit him to stay. I think if we gave 4 firsts (which I think is too much) then we would need him to sign an extension. If he immediately picks up his option for next year so that we get him for two years i would do 3 firsts. If he isn't committing to anything I think a first or two would be all I could feel comfortable trading.

IMO I assume all trade proposals include some kind of assurance that Love will be with the team for more than one year.

[GreenWarrior]

I honestly can't believe some of the proposed trade scenarios to get Love here. I want him, I like him as a player but he's not worth multiple 1sts. imo. our 6th, sully, & any number of players(minus rondo) to make the salaries work & maybe our 17th...but i'm not too big on that either

I look at this like trading for Asik. we have teams that are looking to get something, anything in return for players that don't want to be there. Now is the time to undersell.

like I said I do want Love here but there are multiple stipulations that go along with him coming here.

 - Rondo stays
 - Getting Love is a prelude to more moves to get 2 more stars here
 - we remain flexible to acquire these other stars
 - we don't overpay for love
 - we don't use the Brooklyn picks(i'd like to see what those become)

So you wouldn't do a deal if Minnesota wouldn't take less than 3 firsts? How about if they would only take two firsts?

While we don't want to bid against ourselves, I think we also need to make sure we are the highest bidder. If he is the player that can make us attractive to top level talent then it is worth slightly overpaying for him because his total value is more than just his production.

sorry I should have been more clear. i'm not using those Brooklyn picks to acquire Love. i'd seriously have to think about giving Minny 3 1sts though. Love is not KG. we don't have to overpay for this guy.

Love might not be as good as KG was, but we traded for KG at age 31, Kevin Love is only 25. The KG trade made us a contender for a couple of years before we had to retool. Kevin Love could help turn us into a contender for 10 years.

he could also only be here a yr. and to just beat the dead horse a little more, we throw 4 1st rnd. picks a Minny and he leaves after a yr. we're not left with much else.

it's not about coveting young unknowns in future drafts. it's about losing too many assets for a guy that's not worth it if he's only going to be here a yr.

we need to remain flexible.

I assume what we would offer would be in line with how long we could commit him to stay. I think if we gave 4 firsts (which I think is too much) then we would need him to sign an extension. If he immediately picks up his option for next year so that we get him for two years i would do 3 firsts. If he isn't committing to anything I think a first or two would be all I could feel comfortable trading.

IMO I assume all trade proposals include some kind of assurance that Love will be with the team for more than one year.

without assurance that he is going to be here the most i'm offering is sully(or olynk) #6 and any players minus rondo. if the #17 pick gets the deal done then i'd consider it.

[bucknersrevenge]

I honestly can't believe some of the proposed trade scenarios to get Love here. I want him, I like him as a player but he's not worth multiple 1sts. imo. our 6th, sully, & any number of players(minus rondo) to make the salaries work & maybe our 17th...but i'm not too big on that either

I look at this like trading for Asik. we have teams that are looking to get something, anything in return for players that don't want to be there. Now is the time to undersell.

like I said I do want Love here but there are multiple stipulations that go along with him coming here.

 - Rondo stays
 - Getting Love is a prelude to more moves to get 2 more stars here
 - we remain flexible to acquire these other stars
 - we don't overpay for love
 - we don't use the Brooklyn picks(i'd like to see what those become)

So you wouldn't do a deal if Minnesota wouldn't take less than 3 firsts? How about if they would only take two firsts?

While we don't want to bid against ourselves, I think we also need to make sure we are the highest bidder. If he is the player that can make us attractive to top level talent then it is worth slightly overpaying for him because his total value is more than just his production.

I would do multiple firsts with Sully Bass, Bogans and Sully and/or KO if it allowed me to keep my #6 from this year. I would put up 17, next years first Clippers pick too if I could keep my 6 this year to put Aaron Gordon next to Love. That would give me:

Rondo
AB
Green
KLove
Center?

maybe trade the TPE for for Asik. And now you have a solid group with Rondo and a top-10 player in Love and a potential star in the making in Gordon coming off the bench. That to me is worth giving up multiple firsts for.

[Celtics4ever]

Anthony has no such right to refuse a trade

Real GM says otherwise, player in last year of contract when I checked a trade.  Try to trade him, I know you did not or you would know this fact.

[Lucky17]

Anthony has no such right to refuse a trade

Real GM says otherwise, player in last year of contract when I checked a trade.  Try to trade him, I know you did not or you would know this fact.

It's not a right of refusal, it's a stipulation of the CBA. You can't trade someone after the trade deadline if he is on the last "non-exercisable" year (e.g. discounting player or early termination options, or pending restricted free agent status) of his contract.

If Anthony wakes up tomorrow and files to exercise his player option for next year, he's immediately tradeable.

[Tr1boy]

I dont want love. I hope danny doesnt give up the 5 or someone else beats our offer.

KO is going to be like a Love very soon(if not just a little worse, same mediocre defense).  No need to give up on the kid.  5th pick might make us pay in a year or two also

[dtrader]

I dont want love. I hope danny doesnt give up the 5 or someone else beats our offer.

KO is going to be like a Love very soon(if not just a little worse, same mediocre defense).  No need to give up on the kid.  5th pick might make us pay in a year or two also

This is how I feel about sully.  In my eyes, sullinger developed quite a bit this year, already showing 20/10 potential, and a developing 3 pointer.  I dont want to lose him to bring in a player that is similar and has only marginally better potential (love).  Plus, I think we can get an all star caliber player at 6, (if we take gordon or vonleh).

[Evantime34]

I dont want love. I hope danny doesnt give up the 5 or someone else beats our offer.

KO is going to be like a Love very soon(if not just a little worse, same mediocre defense).  No need to give up on the kid.  5th pick might make us pay in a year or two also

This is how I feel about sully.  In my eyes, sullinger developed quite a bit this year, already showing 20/10 potential, and a developing 3 pointer.  I dont want to lose him to bring in a player that is similar and has only marginally better potential (love).  Plus, I think we can get an all star caliber player at 6, (if we take gordon or vonleh).

There is something to be said for dealing in certainty.

Yes Sullinger, or Olynyk could become as good as Love (although I doubt that happens) and the 6th pick could be an all star but Love is a guaranteed top 15 player, right now. He's also only 25 so it's not like he can't continue to grow.

I go for the sure thing every time. That being said I don't want the C's to offer too much because I think KO and Sully will end up being a very good offensive combination in the NBA.