Author Topic: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense  (Read 18699 times)

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Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2014, 12:02:10 AM »

Offline Lucky17

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Bill Simmons has suggested 4 #1s and Sully.  This is insanity and it's becoming the conventional wisdom.

Really? I've not heard anyone here argue for much more beyond #6, #17, Sullinger, and filler. Maybe the most ardent of Lovers want to add a future pick, or Olynyk.

But four? Come on.

I've argued the possibility of four #1s plus their choice of Sullinger or Olynyk, but my idea was to offer #17, the Clippers pick, a Nets pick, and another future first while keeping #6.

Aha. Extra 1sts to keep the #6, then. That's not so outlandish.
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Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2014, 02:20:50 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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It's an adorable sentiment I've seen shared by some posters like Shak girl... that we are crazy to give up so many assets for Kevin Love.

First of all, we'll probably get outbid.

Second of all, imo it's a nonsense sentiment.  I admittedly slant towards the pessimistic side pretty often, but to me it smells like blatant homeristic overrating of current assets. 

Kevin Love is a borderline superstar.  He's arguably already a superstar.  He'd easily be the best player on this team. 

Last year he averaged 26 points, 13 rebounds, 4.4 assists on a respectable 46%/38%/82%.  He did this while leading a team to 40 wins in a rough Western Conference.  It would have been a playoff team in the East.

His PER of 27 was 3rd in the league behind Durant and Bron.  His "Estimated Wins Added" of 21.5 was 3rd behind Durant and LeBron.   His efficiency score of 30.3 was higher than LeBron James.  2nd only to Durant.  You can build a team around Kevin Love.

Kevin Love by most measures would qualify as a Superstar.  Remember folks that our own Paul Pierce (never truly a Superstar) barely shot over 40% in the lean years.  Put some quality talent around Love and I'm sure he'd be even more efficient.  In a lot of ways, he'd be absolutely ideal with our own Rajon Rondo.  Rondo is a poor offensive player and needs shooters to succeed... Kevin Love would be ideal... Love is also probably the best outlet passer in the league... he's an elite rebounder who would work wonderfully with Rondo by starting fast breaks. 

Yes, he's a poor defensive player, but we've seen poor defensive star players (pierce and ray, for instance), turn into very capable defenders in the appropriate system. 

Also, let's point out that Kevin Garnett was inches past his prime when we traded for him.  He was 32 years old.   Kevin Love is not an old man.  He's 25 years old.  This is someone who could be a franchise player in Boston for the next 8-10 years.

As for "overpaying"...  I don't buy that.  Let's talk about it from the bottom up.

Future draft picks from Brooklyn or the Clippers?  Whatever.  Crap shoot.  Those picks could just as easily end up 20-30.  We'd be foolish to hold off on trading for a superstar on account of picks 2-4 years from now from teams that are currently playoff caliber. 

The #17 pick?  Whatever.  Talent might be there, but it's always rare to land substantial players in the late 1st round.

Boston future 1st?  Irrelevant if we put together a playoff team.

Sully and/or Oly?  I'm excited about them... but their trade value right now is completely overblown.  Sully was a late 1st rounder and has struggled with back issues.  He's showed signs, but I put his trade value on a par with Houston's Terrence Jones.  Maybe he ends up a star.  Maybe he ends up a long-term backup.  Seems his ceiling is David West/Carlos Boozer... fringe star.  Oly was a late lotto pick in a historically bad draft.  He has showed signs.  He's also 23 years old and might be a long-term role player.   It's really unlikely either of those guys ever ends up as good as Kevin Love.  Those guys don't have nearly as much trade value as a lot of fans here seem to think.  Pretty much every team in the league has comparable prospect assets.  For example, Kings have Ben Mclemore... he's got more trade value than either of those guys.  Warriors have Barnes... arguably more trade value than either of those guys as well.  Plenty of teams have underperforming young players with "potential".   Wizards could throw their hat in the ring using a prospect like Otto Porter... again, likely more trade value than either of those guys.  Every team has their own binkies.

The biggest chip we could give up would be the #6 pick.  It's risky.   The #6 pick could very well become a star player.  If this draft is as good as we think, it could be a dangerous thing to part with.  But it's not a guarantee.  And a "maybe really good player" is the price you pay for a franchise talent.

Yes, it's potentially a lot of pieces to give up (arguably not even as good as the offers other teams will be making).  But put it into perspective.  Kevin Love is likely a Top 5 player in this league RIGHT NOW.  He's a mere 25 years old.  It's exceptionally difficult to land a Top 5 player in this league.  As much as #6, #17, Clips pick, Brooklyn pick, 2015 Boston pick, Oly, Sully, etc SEEMS to be a lot of assets... what's the chances any of those assets will bloom into the kind of franchise-changing player Kevin Love is almost guaranteed to be for the next 8-10 years? 

Also realize that talent attracts other talent.  If you got Rondo and Love on this team, started to make a little noise in the playoffs... perhaps an opportunity will present itself to add a 3rd star... either through free agency or sign-and-trades.  It could theoretically happen as soon as this offseason if someone like Melo or LeBron decided they wanted to join with Love and Rondo... Boston would still probably have a few picks and contracts to make it work. 

But whatever.  Unlikely we get Love.  I'm cool with collecting assets and hoping that one or two of them turn into star caliber players.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 02:29:33 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2014, 02:44:13 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Nah dude Kevin Love kinda sucks.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2014, 02:44:14 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Bill Simmons has suggested 4 #1s and Sully.  This is insanity and it's becoming the conventional wisdom.

Really? I've not heard anyone here argue for much more beyond #6, #17, Sullinger, and filler. Maybe the most ardent of Lovers want to add a future pick, or Olynyk.

But four? Come on.

Yo honestly Boston could give up Green, Bass, Oly, Sully, #6, #17, 2015 Boston 1st, 2015 Clippers 1st and 2018 Brooklyn pick, and it's still a pretty defensible offer for a Top 5 player. 

Yeah, seriously.   FIVE 1st round picks, Green, Oly AND Sully.  I said it.  Still defensible. 

It would be hard to scramble together enough assets to go after another talent, though.  But then in Summer 2015 (presuming we re-signed Rondo and Love at around 18 mil each), you'd have Rondo (18 mil *overpaid*), Love (18 mil *underpaid) + Wallace (10 mil) for a total of 46 mil... and maybe that summer you could maybe start offering Wallace's expiring contract + Brooklyn 2016 + Boston's 2016  pick for someone else... or use one of the picks to rid ourselves of Wallace's contract and use our cap space to sign a 3rd star.

The hardest part would be landing a franchise player like Love.  That's the most difficult thing.  The opportunities to land Top 5 players happen extremely rarely. And as it's been proven time and time again in the NBA, you need franchise superstars to contend for a title.   Ainge will try to trade for Love this summer, but he's going to have a lot of competition for him.   

Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2014, 02:54:33 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Nah dude Kevin Love kinda sucks.


Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2014, 03:57:49 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Ok guys,  let me ask you this. 

How many top tier superstars can you name from the past decade who had not made a single playoff appearance 6 years in to their NBA career?

Let's get a count.

Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2014, 04:23:40 AM »

Offline chambers

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Ok guys,  let me ask you this. 

How many top tier superstars can you name from the past decade who had not made a single playoff appearance 6 years in to their NBA career?

Let's get a count.

The T Wolves in the West is hard. Put em in the East and keep em 80% healthy & they're playoffs easily.
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Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2014, 08:25:17 AM »

Offline boscel33

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I like Kevin Love, but why make the trade and give up the future picks to get him.  I'd rather keep Sullinger, go after Asik with picks and players and let Sully finish developing.  He very well could be the next Kevin Love and we already have him.

Jared Sullinger: 6'9", 280 lbs, 7'1" Wingspan
Yr1: RPG/PPG=5.9/6.0 (injured)
Yr2: RPG/PPG=8.1/13.3

Kevin Love: 6'10", 260lbs, 6'11" Wingspan
Yr1: RPG/PPG=9.1/11.1
Yr2: RPG/PPG=11.0/14.0 (injured)


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Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2014, 09:12:29 AM »

Offline ctrey

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Ok guys,  let me ask you this. 

How many top tier superstars can you name from the past decade who had not made a single playoff appearance 6 years in to their NBA career?

Let's get a count.

Bingo. I would rather see what Sullinger comes to the table with next season and keep our picks. I also really do worry about Love's defensive issues.

Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2014, 09:28:33 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Ok guys,  let me ask you this. 

How many top tier superstars can you name from the past decade who had not made a single playoff appearance 6 years in to their NBA career?

Let's get a count.

The T Wolves in the West is hard. Put em in the East and keep em 80% healthy & they're playoffs easily.

And if Kwame Brown had never missed a shot he'd be the best #1 draft pick of all time.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2014, 09:31:49 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I like Kevin Love, but why make the trade and give up the future picks to get him.  I'd rather keep Sullinger, go after Asik with picks and players and let Sully finish developing.  He very well could be the next Kevin Love and we already have him.

Jared Sullinger: 6'9", 280 lbs, 7'1" Wingspan
Yr1: RPG/PPG=5.9/6.0 (injured)
Yr2: RPG/PPG=8.1/13.3

Kevin Love: 6'10", 260lbs, 6'11" Wingspan
Yr1: RPG/PPG=9.1/11.1
Yr2: RPG/PPG=11.0/14.0 (injured)

Sully needs to commit to physical fitness.  Obviously, he needs to lose a lot of weight, but he needs to add muscle as well.  He only did 9 reps on the bench two years ago.  IF he commits himself, he has the potential to get a lot better.  He already has the IQ and feel for the game.

Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2014, 09:36:02 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I like Kevin Love, but why make the trade and give up the future picks to get him.  I'd rather keep Sullinger, go after Asik with picks and players and let Sully finish developing.  He very well could be the next Kevin Love and we already have him.

Jared Sullinger: 6'9", 280 lbs, 7'1" Wingspan
Yr1: RPG/PPG=5.9/6.0 (injured)
Yr2: RPG/PPG=8.1/13.3

Kevin Love: 6'10", 260lbs, 6'11" Wingspan
Yr1: RPG/PPG=9.1/11.1
Yr2: RPG/PPG=11.0/14.0 (injured)

Sully needs to commit to physical fitness.  Obviously, he needs to lose a lot of weight, but he needs to add muscle as well.  He only did 9 reps on the bench two years ago.  IF he commits himself, he has the potential to get a lot better.  He already has the IQ and feel for the game.

I see Sully as a better comparison to a better Big Baby Davis as opposed to lesser valued Kevin Love.

Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2014, 09:58:30 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Edit: Wrong Thread
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 10:07:43 AM by nickagneta »

Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2014, 09:58:35 AM »

Offline ChiefDK

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I like Kevin Love, but why make the trade and give up the future picks to get him.  I'd rather keep Sullinger, go after Asik with picks and players and let Sully finish developing.  He very well could be the next Kevin Love and we already have him.

Jared Sullinger: 6'9", 280 lbs, 7'1" Wingspan
Yr1: RPG/PPG=5.9/6.0 (injured)
Yr2: RPG/PPG=8.1/13.3

Kevin Love: 6'10", 260lbs, 6'11" Wingspan
Yr1: RPG/PPG=9.1/11.1
Yr2: RPG/PPG=11.0/14.0 (injured)

I think Sully can further evolve next season and put up 17ppg/10reb. Problem is he'll never be a top 5 offensive player like Love is. He'll never shoot or pass as well. And you need elite offensive talent to be a true championship contender.

Re: Kevin Love (or Carmello) Makes No Sense
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2014, 10:02:06 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I think Sully can further evolve next season and put up 17ppg/10reb. Problem is he'll never be a top 5 offensive player like Love is. He'll never shoot or pass as well. And you need elite offensive talent to be a true championship contender.

I don't he will do so, but I hope I am wrong.  Do you guys really think Love is elite.   I think he is very good but we have different definitions of elite.