Author Topic: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.  (Read 24502 times)

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Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2014, 01:09:51 AM »

Offline MBunge

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The only thing I'll be disappointed with is if the team isn't better next year and keeps losing games by imploding in the 2nd half/4th quarter.  Add a legit center, #6, #17 and end the collapses and this team should definitely compete for the playoffs, which will make every player on the roster look better to other teams, and we'll still have two first picks in 3 of the next 4 drafts.

Mike

I think a few simple moves in addition to drafting well at 6 and 17 will definitely improve the team.  At the very least, it'll help the roster make more sense and Stevens will have some better pieces to work with -- pieces that actually fit together somewhat.

That said, I think around here we underestimate a little bit how difficult it is to make the playoffs.

It's the East. 

Mike

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2014, 08:17:30 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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I'm disappointed because Cleveland won the Lottery with a 1% chance.

I don't mind the #6, it was disappointing in a sense that I put an expectation that we will have a top 5 pick, but happy with the result as that's where we are projected to begin with.

But for the Cavs to win it, that made me kill those Gummi Bears.

how many top 3 picks has cleveland had recently???
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2014, 09:18:55 AM »

Offline pablohoney

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I'll take my chances with Kevin Love over Ainge picking another Giddens, Johnson or Fab Melo.

Easy dilemma.

Trade the 6.

Last time we had a similar pick we traded it for Telfair.   

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2014, 09:22:41 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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I'll take my chances with Kevin Love over Ainge picking another Giddens, Johnson or Fab Melo.

Easy dilemma.

Trade the 6.

Last time we had a similar pick we traded it for Telfair.

How do you...have -7 Tommy Points?

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2014, 10:17:45 AM »

Offline BballTim

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I'll take my chances with Kevin Love over Ainge picking another Giddens, Johnson or Fab Melo.

Easy dilemma.

Trade the 6.

Last time we had a similar pick we traded it for Telfair.

  And we sent Raef and his contract out with it as well, which helped pave the way for the KG trade.

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2014, 10:19:49 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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I'm disappointed because Cleveland won the Lottery with a 1% chance.

I don't mind the #6, it was disappointing in a sense that I put an expectation that we will have a top 5 pick, but happy with the result as that's where we are projected to begin with.

But for the Cavs to win it, that made me kill those Gummi Bears.

how many top 3 picks has cleveland had recently???

3 1st round picks, 1 4, and 1 5?

Waiters and Thompson weren't #1s

Kyrie, Bennett, 2014

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2014, 10:44:03 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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Another thread which says Danny Ainge is terrible at drafting.  ::)

You'd think after drafting Tony Allen, Jefferson, Bradley, Rondo, and a few other players that were highly underrated prospects, the argument to imply Ainge is horrible at drafting would simply die down.

Don't you understand? Ainge can't get credit for Rondo because technically Phoenix picked him, and Danny just was lucky, because of course he agreed to acquire whomever they picked, even if it were a Celticblog poster.  And Tony Allen doesn't count because he left in free agency.  And Avery Bradley doesn't count because he was picked 19th and isn't an All-Star and is really old at 23.  And he picked Jajuan Johnson at the end of the first round when he could have had the amazing Marshon Brooks instead.  We should sign MarShon.  We need scoring.

<end delusional anti-Ainge rant>

You duped me at the very beginning. I doubled back.  ;D

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2014, 04:46:54 PM »

Offline thehumburger

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The only thing I'll be disappointed with is if the team isn't better next year and keeps losing games by imploding in the 2nd half/4th quarter.  Add a legit center, #6, #17 and end the collapses and this team should definitely compete for the playoffs, which will make every player on the roster look better to other teams, and we'll still have two first picks in 3 of the next 4 drafts.

Mike

I think a few simple moves in addition to drafting well at 6 and 17 will definitely improve the team.  At the very least, it'll help the roster make more sense and Stevens will have some better pieces to work with -- pieces that actually fit together somewhat.

That said, I think around here we underestimate a little bit how difficult it is to make the playoffs.  Simply having the talent isn't enough.  You need to have the experience, too.  The Celtics didn't really do much learning how to win games together this season, and the roster is going to be very different next year, so it's like they're starting all over again. 

I'd be pretty surprised if they are seriously competing for the playoffs in the second half of next season, though I think they'll have some competitive stretches that get people excited.

I'd agree if we were talking about any other conference in any other sports league, but this is the NBA's Eastern Conference.  The C's were 4 games out of the 8 seed after 44 games and 5.5 games out after 63 games. Not exactly getting left in the dust, especially considering the organization had absolutely no intention of trying to make the playoffs. A full year of a healthy Rondo and improvements from our young players will already make them better than last year, which would put them squarely in the playoff hunt unless the conference as a whole makes significant improvements.

But to your original point, I don't think most people are that desperate to simply hock the #6 pick to try to get as good as possible right now immediately regardless of the cost or what it gets them. Love is extremely appealing because he's an elite player now, and that's what you're aiming for when you draft. The odds are unlikely the 6 would turn out as good as Love, and it would take years to find out. But I don't think most people would want to hock the farm for him if it gave no other chances to continue to improve in the years ahead.

If Love doesn't pan out, which it likely won't, I think most would be happy with a "competitive rebuild" from here on in, that is making smart incremental moves to gradually improve the team while retaining flexibility for future moves, which is how most teams rebuild anyway. They could add smaller essential pieces (Asik is a common one thrown around) to help us get better now while taking the 6 and hoping he turns into a good player. Our year of bottoming out left us with more than enough assets to start heading in that direction. What I think many people wouldn't want is to just sit pat and hope our draft picks turn into stars, with the real possibility that we could be returning to the lottery for the 3rd year in a row, our draft picks not having worked out quite like we hoped. Some teams spend the better part of a decade in the lottery and still aren't competitive.

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2014, 06:32:11 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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The only thing I'll be disappointed with is if the team isn't better next year and keeps losing games by imploding in the 2nd half/4th quarter.  Add a legit center, #6, #17 and end the collapses and this team should definitely compete for the playoffs, which will make every player on the roster look better to other teams, and we'll still have two first picks in 3 of the next 4 drafts.

Mike

I think a few simple moves in addition to drafting well at 6 and 17 will definitely improve the team.  At the very least, it'll help the roster make more sense and Stevens will have some better pieces to work with -- pieces that actually fit together somewhat.

That said, I think around here we underestimate a little bit how difficult it is to make the playoffs.  Simply having the talent isn't enough.  You need to have the experience, too.  The Celtics didn't really do much learning how to win games together this season, and the roster is going to be very different next year, so it's like they're starting all over again. 

I'd be pretty surprised if they are seriously competing for the playoffs in the second half of next season, though I think they'll have some competitive stretches that get people excited.

I'd agree if we were talking about any other conference in any other sports league, but this is the NBA's Eastern Conference.  The C's were 4 games out of the 8 seed after 44 games and 5.5 games out after 63 games. Not exactly getting left in the dust, especially considering the organization had absolutely no intention of trying to make the playoffs. A full year of a healthy Rondo and improvements from our young players will already make them better than last year, which would put them squarely in the playoff hunt unless the conference as a whole makes significant improvements.

But to your original point, I don't think most people are that desperate to simply hock the #6 pick to try to get as good as possible right now immediately regardless of the cost or what it gets them. Love is extremely appealing because he's an elite player now, and that's what you're aiming for when you draft. The odds are unlikely the 6 would turn out as good as Love, and it would take years to find out. But I don't think most people would want to hock the farm for him if it gave no other chances to continue to improve in the years ahead.

If Love doesn't pan out, which it likely won't, I think most would be happy with a "competitive rebuild" from here on in, that is making smart incremental moves to gradually improve the team while retaining flexibility for future moves, which is how most teams rebuild anyway. They could add smaller essential pieces (Asik is a common one thrown around) to help us get better now while taking the 6 and hoping he turns into a good player. Our year of bottoming out left us with more than enough assets to start heading in that direction. What I think many people wouldn't want is to just sit pat and hope our draft picks turn into stars, with the real possibility that we could be returning to the lottery for the 3rd year in a row, our draft picks not having worked out quite like we hoped. Some teams spend the better part of a decade in the lottery and still aren't competitive.
Really great points. Remember too the injuries this last year, not only to Rondo but Sully was out for a bit and Bradley, not to mention GWallace who is in the twilight of his career but still hustles and defends well. Assuming those guys are healthier and we see solid improvements from Sully, KO and maybe CJohnson, then add #6 and #17, this team could be a lot better even without a major trade.

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2014, 07:45:48 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm sure the Knicks and Cavs thought "It's the East!" This year, too.  Not to mention the Celtics team from two seasons ago which had a lot of talent and ultimately barely managed to finish at .500.  Making the playoffs is much easier in the East than in the West, but it's still harder than we often acknowledge around here.

Very young teams, as a general rule, don't make the playoffs no matter how talented.  It takes time to learn how to win together.  And teams without a top shelf scorer tend to struggle regardless of experience.

As for Love, I agree that if you can get a talent like Love with a draft pick, it makes sense to so that instead of trying to build through youth.  But surrendering not just one but many picks and other assets (I.e. Sullinger) for what could be just one year of Kevin Love is a dubious proposition from where I'm sitting.

  And if no trade for Love materializes, I'd MUCH rather use the pick than trade it for some other combination of established but not top-of-the-league talent.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2014, 08:24:00 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Very young teams, as a general rule, don't make the playoffs no matter how talented.  It takes time to learn how to win together.  And teams without a top shelf scorer tend to struggle regardless of experience.


True.  But the Celtics should be able to put together a team that has enough quality veterans to make the playoffs while at the same time being able to develop young players to not only learn how to play in the NBA, but also how to play to win in the NBA. 

Even if we don't make a big, splashy move like the Kevin Love one, I do think we'll have to shore up the center position this off-season to improve on last year and have a shot to be a playoff team. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2014, 09:27:52 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Very young teams, as a general rule, don't make the playoffs no matter how talented.  It takes time to learn how to win together.  And teams without a top shelf scorer tend to struggle regardless of experience.


True.  But the Celtics should be able to put together a team that has enough quality veterans to make the playoffs while at the same time being able to develop young players to not only learn how to play in the NBA, but also how to play to win in the NBA. 

Even if we don't make a big, splashy move like the Kevin Love one, I do think we'll have to shore up the center position this off-season to improve on last year and have a shot to be a playoff team.

I think adding a center like Asik could very well make the team playoff caliber.  I guess I'm just saying we shouldn't be surprised if the team is better but still struggles a bit and misses the playoffs.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2014, 09:35:10 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Very young teams, as a general rule, don't make the playoffs no matter how talented.  It takes time to learn how to win together.  And teams without a top shelf scorer tend to struggle regardless of experience.


True.  But the Celtics should be able to put together a team that has enough quality veterans to make the playoffs while at the same time being able to develop young players to not only learn how to play in the NBA, but also how to play to win in the NBA. 

Even if we don't make a big, splashy move like the Kevin Love one, I do think we'll have to shore up the center position this off-season to improve on last year and have a shot to be a playoff team.

I think adding a center like Asik could very well make the team playoff caliber.  I guess I'm just saying we shouldn't be surprised if the team is better but still struggles a bit and misses the playoffs.

But, maybe we'll at least be allowed to root for the team to win games. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2014, 11:07:20 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Very young teams, as a general rule, don't make the playoffs no matter how talented.  It takes time to learn how to win together.  And teams without a top shelf scorer tend to struggle regardless of experience.


True.  But the Celtics should be able to put together a team that has enough quality veterans to make the playoffs while at the same time being able to develop young players to not only learn how to play in the NBA, but also how to play to win in the NBA. 

Even if we don't make a big, splashy move like the Kevin Love one, I do think we'll have to shore up the center position this off-season to improve on last year and have a shot to be a playoff team.

I think adding a center like Asik could very well make the team playoff caliber.  I guess I'm just saying we shouldn't be surprised if the team is better but still struggles a bit and misses the playoffs.

But, maybe we'll at least be allowed to root for the team to win games.


I'm hoping the Celtics head into next season with something resembling a core group for the future.  I never felt particularly invested in the team this year because the roster was so discombobulated and it seemed like hardly any of the players was a lock to even be here in a couple years.  Having a team that makes some sense and has a couple more exciting young pieces would be much easier to get positive about and root for something other than ping pong balls.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Disappointed with #6 and want to trade it? Ask yourself this.
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2014, 11:56:55 PM »

Offline hondobird33

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Our biggest need is rim protector or 3 pt sharpshooter (SG or SF) since we have plenty of power forwards.  Trade our #6 pick to Charlotte for their #9 and #24.  Take McDermott who is projected to go 9th or 10th.  Take our first round pick #17 as package as part of Love trade.  Use the added first round #24 pick as part of trading for Asik (give them TPE and this first round pick).

Rondo/Pressey
Martin/Bayless
Green/McDermott
Love/Olynyk
Asik/Faverani