Who says "no" to this simple Rondo trade in off-season?

[CoachBo]

I like this idea but I think Indiana says no.

I know Hibbert has laid an egg this season headed into the playoffs, but fact remains he's still a young, legit 7 footer who can play a big role in leading a team to victory.

Don't think Larry deals him to another Eastern Conference team for Rondo.

I could however see Hibbert being involved in a deal for Indy to get a more consistent PF/C in return like Kevin Love, Demarcus Cousins or maybe even Asik.

He's less than a year younger than Rondo.  Yet, many fans seem to consider Rondo an "old/past his prime point guard."

I've never heard anyone criticize Rondo for being "past his prime."

So you think Rondo can return to being a top fifteen player in the league next season?

Return?

To answer the thread title, I would say 2 members of this board would say no and I confidently say that without even knowing the details of the trade.

Yes, return.  Would you dispute that Rondo was considered to be a top fifteen player in the NBA for the 2012 season?

By whose standards? Yours? Tim's?

[Celtics18]

I prefer this Rondo trade:

Rondo to OKC, future protected first round pick and Jeff Green to Houston
Westbrook and Perk to Boston
Asik to OKC.

-We get to upgrade Rondo into a legit 1st option scorer who also is younger; Perk won't help us win many games, but at least we can play Sully and KO at the 4 more often which helps their development, and he's expiring.
-OKC plugs their one weak position (Perk is one of the league's worst starting centers) and gets a better complementary PG for KD.
Houston gets to turn their disgruntled, free-agency-bound center into a good sixth man and a 1st round pick.

horrible, just horrible.

Rondo for Westbrook is debatable enough.  add in that you want to give away a 1st rounder AND Jeff Green for Perk?  horrible.

I love Perk but he's absolutely toast at this point.  we could pick up any vet min big man if the goal is to just have a center to play and keep from playing Sully there.  would cost a lot less and be about as productive

Look at the bright side - with Rondo gone, this board would still have someone's skills to conflate beyond all basketball reason.

I guess people just need a binky, kind of like Linus in the old Peanuts comic strip.

See above.

 

Could you point to some specific examples of posters on this board "conflating" Rondo's basketball skills beyond all basketball reason?

 

You can't be serious.

Plus, I don't think the moderators like individual posters being targeted.

So, "no."  Thanks for the response, Coach.

You are indeed hilarious. I ran through the handles in my head briefly and came up with two dozen.

And that took a couple of minutes, tops.

I'll have to give it some more thought to come up with a comprehensive list. Although it's easier to come up with a list of the realists, actually. And shorter.

I don't necessarily mean names, Coach.  I mean could you point to the specific things that were posted that were "beyond all basketball reason"?

[Celtics18]

I like this idea but I think Indiana says no.

I know Hibbert has laid an egg this season headed into the playoffs, but fact remains he's still a young, legit 7 footer who can play a big role in leading a team to victory.

Don't think Larry deals him to another Eastern Conference team for Rondo.

I could however see Hibbert being involved in a deal for Indy to get a more consistent PF/C in return like Kevin Love, Demarcus Cousins or maybe even Asik.

He's less than a year younger than Rondo.  Yet, many fans seem to consider Rondo an "old/past his prime point guard."

I've never heard anyone criticize Rondo for being "past his prime."

So you think Rondo can return to being a top fifteen player in the league next season?

Return?

To answer the thread title, I would say 2 members of this board would say no and I confidently say that without even knowing the details of the trade.

Yes, return.  Would you dispute that Rondo was considered to be a top fifteen player in the NBA for the 2012 season?

By whose standards? Yours? Tim's?

By the folks who vote for the All NBA teams.

By the folks who vote for the all star game reserves.

By the folks who cast the MVP votes.

By the folks who vote for the all defensive teams.

By the folks who vote for the ESPN annual NBA player rankings.

Tim's and my standards aren't really relevant. 

[Eddie20]

I like this idea but I think Indiana says no.

I know Hibbert has laid an egg this season headed into the playoffs, but fact remains he's still a young, legit 7 footer who can play a big role in leading a team to victory.

Don't think Larry deals him to another Eastern Conference team for Rondo.

I could however see Hibbert being involved in a deal for Indy to get a more consistent PF/C in return like Kevin Love, Demarcus Cousins or maybe even Asik.

He's less than a year younger than Rondo.  Yet, many fans seem to consider Rondo an "old/past his prime point guard."

I've never heard anyone criticize Rondo for being "past his prime."

So you think Rondo can return to being a top fifteen player in the league next season?

Return?

To answer the thread title, I would say 2 members of this board would say no and I confidently say that without even knowing the details of the trade.

Yes, return.  Would you dispute that Rondo was considered to be a top fifteen player in the NBA for the 2012 season?

By whose standards? Yours? Tim's?

By the folks who vote for the All NBA teams.

By the folks who vote for the all star game reserves.

By the folks who cast the MVP votes.

By the folks who vote for the all defensive teams.

By the folks who vote for the ESPN annual NBA player rankings.

Tim's and my standards aren't really relevant.

Honestly speaking, him receiving those accolades was a gift. It was a gift that he was put in the situation he was in. A gift that he played with KG, Pierce, and Allen. A gift that he played for a marquee team and the national exposure he received helped generate votes in his favor. I am fairly certain that many other PG's would've put up similar numbers as him if placed in such a favorable situation.

But you only mentioned 1 season. Why? Does that mean that in your opinion Rondo was a top 15 player for only one season in his career? Wouldn't that mean that season of accolades, namely being named 3rd team all-NBA, was merely an aberration?

For the season you mentioned his numbers were the following:

11.6 PPG
4.7 RPG
11.4 APG
44.8 FG%
59.7 FT%
23.8 3PT%
1.8 SPG
3.6 TOV

For comparison Dragic, an obviously much less sought after player, just posted the following stats:

20.3 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.9 APG
50.5 FG%
76.0 FT%
40.8 3PT%
1.4 SPG
2.8 TOV

Removing the flashiness and name recognition and simply comparing those numbers it would be hard to say Dragic's numbers don't better Rondo's "top 15" season.

[BballTim]

I like this idea but I think Indiana says no.

I know Hibbert has laid an egg this season headed into the playoffs, but fact remains he's still a young, legit 7 footer who can play a big role in leading a team to victory.

Don't think Larry deals him to another Eastern Conference team for Rondo.

I could however see Hibbert being involved in a deal for Indy to get a more consistent PF/C in return like Kevin Love, Demarcus Cousins or maybe even Asik.

He's less than a year younger than Rondo.  Yet, many fans seem to consider Rondo an "old/past his prime point guard."

I've never heard anyone criticize Rondo for being "past his prime."

  I've seen at least 20-30 such posts. Many of them were from one poster but not all of them.

[BballTim]

I prefer this Rondo trade:

Rondo to OKC, future protected first round pick and Jeff Green to Houston
Westbrook and Perk to Boston
Asik to OKC.

-We get to upgrade Rondo into a legit 1st option scorer who also is younger; Perk won't help us win many games, but at least we can play Sully and KO at the 4 more often which helps their development, and he's expiring.
-OKC plugs their one weak position (Perk is one of the league's worst starting centers) and gets a better complementary PG for KD.
Houston gets to turn their disgruntled, free-agency-bound center into a good sixth man and a 1st round pick.

horrible, just horrible.

Rondo for Westbrook is debatable enough.  add in that you want to give away a 1st rounder AND Jeff Green for Perk?  horrible.

I love Perk but he's absolutely toast at this point.  we could pick up any vet min big man if the goal is to just have a center to play and keep from playing Sully there.  would cost a lot less and be about as productive

Look at the bright side - with Rondo gone, this board would still have someone's skills to conflate beyond all basketball reason.

I guess people just need a binky, kind of like Linus in the old Peanuts comic strip.

See above.

 

  As long as you're able to wildly exaggerate other opinions in the hopes of sounding like your opinions are comparatively knowledgeable it's all good.

[BballTim]

I prefer this Rondo trade:

Rondo to OKC, future protected first round pick and Jeff Green to Houston
Westbrook and Perk to Boston
Asik to OKC.

-We get to upgrade Rondo into a legit 1st option scorer who also is younger; Perk won't help us win many games, but at least we can play Sully and KO at the 4 more often which helps their development, and he's expiring.
-OKC plugs their one weak position (Perk is one of the league's worst starting centers) and gets a better complementary PG for KD.
Houston gets to turn their disgruntled, free-agency-bound center into a good sixth man and a 1st round pick.

horrible, just horrible.

Rondo for Westbrook is debatable enough.  add in that you want to give away a 1st rounder AND Jeff Green for Perk?  horrible.

I love Perk but he's absolutely toast at this point.  we could pick up any vet min big man if the goal is to just have a center to play and keep from playing Sully there.  would cost a lot less and be about as productive

Look at the bright side - with Rondo gone, this board would still have someone's skills to conflate beyond all basketball reason.

I guess people just need a binky, kind of like Linus in the old Peanuts comic strip.

See above.

 

Could you point to some specific examples of posters on this board "conflating" Rondo's basketball skills beyond all basketball reason?

 

You can't be serious.

Plus, I don't think the moderators like individual posters being targeted.

So, "no."  Thanks for the response, Coach.

You are indeed hilarious. I ran through the handles in my head briefly and came up with two dozen.

And that took a couple of minutes, tops.

I'll have to give it some more thought to come up with a comprehensive list. Although it's easier to come up with a list of the realists, actually. And shorter.

   He's talking about actual posts, not your hyperbolic description of people's opinions.

[BballTim]

I like this idea but I think Indiana says no.

I know Hibbert has laid an egg this season headed into the playoffs, but fact remains he's still a young, legit 7 footer who can play a big role in leading a team to victory.

Don't think Larry deals him to another Eastern Conference team for Rondo.

I could however see Hibbert being involved in a deal for Indy to get a more consistent PF/C in return like Kevin Love, Demarcus Cousins or maybe even Asik.

He's less than a year younger than Rondo.  Yet, many fans seem to consider Rondo an "old/past his prime point guard."

I've never heard anyone criticize Rondo for being "past his prime."

So you think Rondo can return to being a top fifteen player in the league next season?

Return?

To answer the thread title, I would say 2 members of this board would say no and I confidently say that without even knowing the details of the trade.

Yes, return.  Would you dispute that Rondo was considered to be a top fifteen player in the NBA for the 2012 season?

By whose standards? Yours? Tim's?

By the folks who vote for the All NBA teams.

By the folks who vote for the all star game reserves.

By the folks who cast the MVP votes.

By the folks who vote for the all defensive teams.

By the folks who vote for the ESPN annual NBA player rankings.

Tim's and my standards aren't really relevant.

Honestly speaking, him receiving those accolades was a gift. It was a gift that he was put in the situation he was in. A gift that he played with KG, Pierce, and Allen. A gift that he played for a marquee team and the national exposure he received helped generate votes in his favor. I am fairly certain that many other PG's would've put up similar numbers as him if placed in such a favorable situation.

   This claim is already well past it's expiration date. Rondo coming back from a knee injury and playing with one of the collectively worst offensive groups in the league was able to pretty much duplicate those numbers. I know you've been hearing for years that the only reason Rondo was able to put up his numbers was because he was playing with the big three but you were listening to people who weren't exactly "in the know".

  Just out of curiosity, do you consider PP making all nba teams and KG making 1st team all-nba when the big three was assembled a gift?

[pokeKingCurtis]

I prefer this Rondo trade:

Rondo to OKC, future protected first round pick and Jeff Green to Houston
Westbrook and Perk to Boston
Asik to OKC.

-We get to upgrade Rondo into a legit 1st option scorer who also is younger; Perk won't help us win many games, but at least we can play Sully and KO at the 4 more often which helps their development, and he's expiring.
-OKC plugs their one weak position (Perk is one of the league's worst starting centers) and gets a better complementary PG for KD.
Houston gets to turn their disgruntled, free-agency-bound center into a good sixth man and a 1st round pick.

horrible, just horrible.

Rondo for Westbrook is debatable enough.  add in that you want to give away a 1st rounder AND Jeff Green for Perk?  horrible.

I love Perk but he's absolutely toast at this point.  we could pick up any vet min big man if the goal is to just have a center to play and keep from playing Sully there.  would cost a lot less and be about as productive

Look at the bright side - with Rondo gone, this board would still have someone's skills to conflate beyond all basketball reason.

I guess people just need a binky, kind of like Linus in the old Peanuts comic strip.

See above.

 

  As long as you're able to wildly exaggerate other opinions in the hopes of sounding like your opinions are comparatively knowledgeable it's all good.

+1

[BballTim]

For the season you mentioned his numbers were the following:

11.6 PPG
4.7 RPG
11.4 APG
44.8 FG%
59.7 FT%
23.8 3PT%
1.8 SPG
3.6 TOV

For comparison Dragic, an obviously much less sought after player, just posted the following stats:

20.3 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.9 APG
50.5 FG%
76.0 FT%
40.8 3PT%
1.4 SPG
2.8 TOV

Removing the flashiness and name recognition and simply comparing those numbers it would be hard to say Dragic's numbers don't better Rondo's "top 15" season.

  If Dragic ends up outside the top 15 you'd have to consider that the (seeming majority) of voters who decide such things do more than just compare numbers to decide who's had a better year. Or, he could show up in that range of players and your argument would fall apart for a different reason.

[Eddie20]

For the season you mentioned his numbers were the following:

11.6 PPG
4.7 RPG
11.4 APG
44.8 FG%
59.7 FT%
23.8 3PT%
1.8 SPG
3.6 TOV

For comparison Dragic, an obviously much less sought after player, just posted the following stats:

20.3 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.9 APG
50.5 FG%
76.0 FT%
40.8 3PT%
1.4 SPG
2.8 TOV

Removing the flashiness and name recognition and simply comparing those numbers it would be hard to say Dragic's numbers don't better Rondo's "top 15" season.

  If Dragic ends up outside the top 15 you'd have to consider that the (seeming majority) of voters who decide such things do more than just compare numbers to decide who's had a better year. Or, he could show up in that range of players and your argument would fall apart for a different reason.

Sure. If he does he'll have as many all team nominations as Rondo. They'll be some Suns fans claiming he's a top 15 player too.

Again, if that's the basis of your argument then your logic is flawed. He's been named to one 3rd team all NBA team. One. That's one in eight years. That's an aberration. In fact, I'll be willing to bet he doesn't sniff an all NBA team or the all-star team next year. TP's, your admission that Rondo is overrated, anything you want, really. Are you as confident your hero could return to his 2012 "career year" form as I am in my prediction?

[Aymanelgowainy]

Basketball aint all stats.. Rondo arguably SINGLEHANDEDLY took his to the conference finals in 2012.. Injured Peirce, Bad Ray Allen, OK KG, No Jeff Green, Imjured Bradley!!

[Eddie20]

Basketball aint all stats.. Rondo arguably SINGLEHANDEDLY took his to the conference finals in 2012.. Injured Peirce, Bad Ray Allen, OK KG, No Jeff Green, Imjured Bradley!!

And Bernard King was a killer in the playoffs. An absolute killer. Where does he rank in your list of all-time greats? And he actually did do it "single-handedly".

So to humor you let's say Rondo was able to do it "single-handedly" for only one postseason run. That's an aberration, my friend. However, I do remember things a bit differently. I do recall us losing to Atlanta and then having him get suspended for the following game. How did our team do without Rondo in the game he missed?

[fitzhickey]

I like this idea but I think Indiana says no.

I know Hibbert has laid an egg this season headed into the playoffs, but fact remains he's still a young, legit 7 footer who can play a big role in leading a team to victory.

Don't think Larry deals him to another Eastern Conference team for Rondo.

I could however see Hibbert being involved in a deal for Indy to get a more consistent PF/C in return like Kevin Love, Demarcus Cousins or maybe even Asik.

He's less than a year younger than Rondo.  Yet, many fans seem to consider Rondo an "old/past his prime point guard."

I've never heard anyone criticize Rondo for being "past his prime."

  I've seen at least 20-30 such posts. Many of them were from one poster but not all of them.

I know the exact poster you're talking about, and he certainly does beat the "Rondo is past his prime, his value is next to nothing" drum

[Celtics18]

I like this idea but I think Indiana says no.

I know Hibbert has laid an egg this season headed into the playoffs, but fact remains he's still a young, legit 7 footer who can play a big role in leading a team to victory.

Don't think Larry deals him to another Eastern Conference team for Rondo.

I could however see Hibbert being involved in a deal for Indy to get a more consistent PF/C in return like Kevin Love, Demarcus Cousins or maybe even Asik.

He's less than a year younger than Rondo.  Yet, many fans seem to consider Rondo an "old/past his prime point guard."

I've never heard anyone criticize Rondo for being "past his prime."

So you think Rondo can return to being a top fifteen player in the league next season?

Return?

To answer the thread title, I would say 2 members of this board would say no and I confidently say that without even knowing the details of the trade.

Yes, return.  Would you dispute that Rondo was considered to be a top fifteen player in the NBA for the 2012 season?

By whose standards? Yours? Tim's?

By the folks who vote for the All NBA teams.

By the folks who vote for the all star game reserves.

By the folks who cast the MVP votes.

By the folks who vote for the all defensive teams.

By the folks who vote for the ESPN annual NBA player rankings.

Tim's and my standards aren't really relevant.

Honestly speaking, him receiving those accolades was a gift. It was a gift that he was put in the situation he was in. A gift that he played with KG, Pierce, and Allen. A gift that he played for a marquee team and the national exposure he received helped generate votes in his favor. I am fairly certain that many other PG's would've put up similar numbers as him if placed in such a favorable situation.

But you only mentioned 1 season. Why? Does that mean that in your opinion Rondo was a top 15 player for only one season in his career? Wouldn't that mean that season of accolades, namely being named 3rd team all-NBA, was merely an aberration?

For the season you mentioned his numbers were the following:

11.6 PPG
4.7 RPG
11.4 APG
44.8 FG%
59.7 FT%
23.8 3PT%
1.8 SPG
3.6 TOV

For comparison Dragic, an obviously much less sought after player, just posted the following stats:

20.3 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.9 APG
50.5 FG%
76.0 FT%
40.8 3PT%
1.4 SPG
2.8 TOV

Removing the flashiness and name recognition and simply comparing those numbers it would be hard to say Dragic's numbers don't better Rondo's "top 15" season.

I think the "gift" argument is silly.  Rondo earned all those accolades.  Everyone has circumstances that help them succeed or not succeed.  Rondo made the most of his opportunities and turned himself into a top NBA point guard.  Why would all those writers and opposing coaches give Rondo a gift?  Is it because of his warm, cuddly personality?

As far as my picking only one season, I picked the last season that he was healthy.  He got off to a great start during the subsequent 2012-2013 and was voted to the all star team as a starter.  Unfortunately, he tore up his knee and has been recovering ever since.

Most of the above accolades are based on the regular season and don't even take into account his top notch post-season play.

Go ahead and attempt to justify away his accomplishments in whatever way you see fit.  It's fine for you to not like Rondo or his personality or his game.  I'm just presenting the facts.  Skew them all you want.