Author Topic: Bill Simmons on Rondo  (Read 33177 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2014, 08:25:46 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34733
  • Tommy Points: 1604
Ricky Rubio tore his ACL during the 11/12 season.  He had a PER of 16.2 in 12/13, which was actually an improvement from his PER of 14.6 in the 11/12 season (of course that was his rookie year).  This year he has actually dropped back a bit to 15.5.

Plenty of players come back from ACL injuries with good success.  They always lose a step and a bit of athleticism, but if their game isn't conditioned on on that athleticism they can have great success in the league post-injury.  Even some players built more on athleticism can have great success, they just have to adapt their game. 

As for Rondo, one of his bigger problems is, his offensive game was never skill based and has always been about his athleticism.  He doesn't have a fluid shooting stroke to begin with and when you couple that with a weaker knee it causes great havoc on his overall game. 
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2014, 09:59:55 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
Ricky Rubio tore his ACL during the 11/12 season.  He had a PER of 16.2 in 12/13, which was actually an improvement from his PER of 14.6 in the 11/12 season (of course that was his rookie year).  This year he has actually dropped back a bit to 15.5.

Plenty of players come back from ACL injuries with good success.  They always lose a step and a bit of athleticism, but if their game isn't conditioned on on that athleticism they can have great success in the league post-injury.  Even some players built more on athleticism can have great success, they just have to adapt their game. 

As for Rondo, one of his bigger problems is, his offensive game was never skill based and has always been about his athleticism.  He doesn't have a fluid shooting stroke to begin with and when you couple that with a weaker knee it causes great havoc on his overall game.

We've obviously been watching two different Rajon Rondos.  Not skill based?! 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2014, 10:03:11 AM »

Offline CoachBo

  • NCE
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6069
  • Tommy Points: 336
Rondo is not a skilled shooter. Never has been, likely never will be.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2014, 10:06:50 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
Shooting is not the only basketball skill there is.  Rondo's elite passing and ball handling skills won't go away. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2014, 10:21:35 AM »

Offline CoachBo

  • NCE
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6069
  • Tommy Points: 336
What about Rondo for Westbrook?  Throw in a pick to even things out.  Or a three way trade in which Rondo goes to a contender (and extends his contract) and we get Kyle Irving?  I think there are multiple scenarios where we could get good value for Rondo.  The extra draft picks makes it easier.

Why in the world would OKC or Cleveland trade proven quality for what Rondo's shown this year? Both teams hang up on Ainge laughing hysterically.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2014, 10:22:02 AM »

Offline CoachBo

  • NCE
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6069
  • Tommy Points: 336
Shooting is not the only basketball skill there is.  Rondo's elite passing and ball handling skills won't go away.

Where are they now?

He has, frankly, been awful this year, so awful that I doubt seriously he brings any kind of value whatsoever in a trade and is here next season, stopping the basketball and playing "ole" defense as he has been for a few years.

Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2014, 10:27:53 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
Shooting is not the only basketball skill there is.  Rondo's elite passing and ball handling skills won't go away.

Where are they now?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0xhw-5Txto
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2014, 10:32:41 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34733
  • Tommy Points: 1604
Shooting is not the only basketball skill there is.  Rondo's elite passing and ball handling skills won't go away.
but when you lose a step, you can't hit the passes because you aren't in the same position on the floor.  You can't do a killer crossover (as an example), if your knee is weaker or slower.  That is the problem with Rondo right now.  His best attributes were based in a large part on his physical gifts, he just doesn't have those physical gifts anymore.  He has to learn how to play differently, something he has never demonstrated a real ability to do.  He isn't a guy that can morph into a spot up shooter, or a back you down and post you up type PG.  He isn't going to blow by anyone off the dribble.  His game was and is based on his physical attributes, which he just doesn't have right now.  He should be able to get some of that back as his knee gets stronger, but he will never be the player he once was physically, so he is going to have to change his game a bit.  I have very little confidence that he will be able to make the adjustments he will need to make to be an all star PG again.  He will still be very good, but I see a guy that is at best a title contenders 3rd best player where pre-injury I think he could have been the 2nd best player (though not the second scoring option).
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2014, 10:40:19 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
Shooting is not the only basketball skill there is.  Rondo's elite passing and ball handling skills won't go away.
but when you lose a step, you can't hit the passes because you aren't in the same position on the floor.  You can't do a killer crossover (as an example), if your knee is weaker or slower.  That is the problem with Rondo right now.  His best attributes were based in a large part on his physical gifts, he just doesn't have those physical gifts anymore.  He has to learn how to play differently, something he has never demonstrated a real ability to do.  He isn't a guy that can morph into a spot up shooter, or a back you down and post you up type PG.  He isn't going to blow by anyone off the dribble.  His game was and is based on his physical attributes, which he just doesn't have right now.  He should be able to get some of that back as his knee gets stronger, but he will never be the player he once was physically, so he is going to have to change his game a bit.  I have very little confidence that he will be able to make the adjustments he will need to make to be an all star PG again.  He will still be very good, but I see a guy that is at best a title contenders 3rd best player where pre-injury I think he could have been the 2nd best player (though not the second scoring option).

He may never be as athletic as he was before the injury, but I expect him to look more explosive and more comfortable driving the basketball again by next season. 

And I think it bordering on criminal how many of you don't recognize how skillful Rondo is at finding the open man and delivering the basketball.  There is a theory that this skill is simply a by-product of his athleticism and/or the teammates he's played with. 

Rajon Rondo is one of the best basketball passers of the last twenty years.  I'd honestly say in the top five, along with Johnson, Nash, Kidd, and Stockton.  That fact that this isn't recognized as skill more often really hurts my basketball sensibilities. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2014, 10:46:11 AM »

Offline Mr Green

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 309
  • Tommy Points: 33
Rondo's physical gifts were good enough to get 8 points, 14 assists, 11 rebounds and 2 steals in 35 minutes against Philly today.

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2014, 10:58:12 AM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Rondo's physical gifts were good enough to get 8 points, 14 assists, 11 rebounds and 2 steals in 35 minutes against Philly today.

As difficult to parse a box score as any we've seen from Rondo.

I think part of what makes Rondo so polarizing is there's a major disconnect between "winning basketball" Rondo and "putting up numbers across the box score" Rondo.  Sometimes the two overlap.  Often they don't.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2014, 11:06:56 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
Rondo's physical gifts were good enough to get 8 points, 14 assists, 11 rebounds and 2 steals in 35 minutes against Philly today.

As difficult to parse a box score as any we've seen from Rondo.

I think part of what makes Rondo so polarizing is there's a major disconnect between "winning basketball" Rondo and "putting up numbers across the box score" Rondo.  Sometimes the two overlap.  Often they don't.
Yeah he had a bad TO and shot blocked in transition in the last minutes of the game, but he also got several key rebounds and loose balls and setup Green nicely for key buckets that kept the game close. Overall we got killed when he was off the floor.

But I can't say he played amazing either. I just hope he can get back to finishing at an elite level for a guard at the rim. Changes things so much for his value.

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2014, 11:09:18 AM »

Offline Sixth Man

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1008
  • Tommy Points: 82
Rondo is a great player - too bad he is uncoachable. 

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2014, 11:19:33 AM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Walter Brown
  • ********************************
  • Posts: 32824
  • Tommy Points: 1733
  • What a Pub Should Be
Rondo is a great player - too bad he is uncoachable.

Based on what?


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Bill Simmons on Rondo
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2014, 11:32:25 AM »

Offline Smokeeye123

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2374
  • Tommy Points: 156
Rondo and vitor for asik and a houston first would make me happy