More proof Bradley will stay a Celtic

[D.o.s.]

  If they don't miss time then they generally didn't discuss it. Everyone talked about how bad Ray looked against Reddick in 2009, but someone mentioned months later that he had been having hamstring issues. Danny mentioned during a Celts game last year that PP and Jet were starting to play better because they'd been playing through (undisclosed) leg injuries. Same with Rondo's hand injury in 2011. Doc's oft-stated philosophy was "if you're playing, you aren't injured". I thought that was fairly well known.

Right. It usually comes out in the wash after the fact, though.

  I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

You getting that from multiple sources?

   Yes.

BballTim is Chris Broussard. More at 11.

[BballTim]

  If they don't miss time then they generally didn't discuss it. Everyone talked about how bad Ray looked against Reddick in 2009, but someone mentioned months later that he had been having hamstring issues. Danny mentioned during a Celts game last year that PP and Jet were starting to play better because they'd been playing through (undisclosed) leg injuries. Same with Rondo's hand injury in 2011. Doc's oft-stated philosophy was "if you're playing, you aren't injured". I thought that was fairly well known.

Right. It usually comes out in the wash after the fact, though.

  I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

You getting that from multiple sources?

   Yes.

BballTim is Chris Broussard. More at 11.

   I'm probably not alone. I'd guess the bulk of the people that have followed the team relatively closely over the past few years could come up with multiple sources, so could people who know how to use google.

[D.o.s.]

You're saying that you'd be able to find out that Avery Bradley was injured but no one on the team would talk about it?

How would you find that out, exactly, if no one on the team would talk about it?

[BballTim]

You're saying that you'd be able to find out that Avery Bradley was injured but no one on the team would talk about it?

How would you find that out, exactly, if no one on the team would talk about it?

  No, I'm saying it doesn't "come out in the wash after the fact". I personally wouldn't be surprised if he was playing through an injury in last year's playoffs, but in any case you can't assume he wasn't just because it wasn't reported.

[D.o.s.]

Personally, I've yet to hear about a player playing injured in a playoff series that hasn't come out after the fact. 

But, you know, the idea that Bradley's poor play can plausibly be attributed to an injury that no one reported seems fishy.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence is a two way street, and I recognize that, but it seems more likely that he wasn't injured because  this is a league where players and organizations are very quick to say a given player wasn't 100% because of this or that after the fact.

Occam's razor and all that.

[BballTim]

Personally, I've yet to hear about a player playing injured in a playoff series that hasn't come out after the fact. 

But, you know, the idea that Bradley's poor play can plausibly be attributed to an injury that no one reported seems fishy.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence is a two way street, and I recognize that, but it seems more likely that he wasn't injured because  this is a league where players and organizations are very quick to say a given player wasn't 100% because of this or that after the fact.

Occam's razor and all that.

  Maybe it's a team by team thing. Ray's play was hampered during the 2009 playoffs due to injury and I'm pretty sure it was months later when it was mentioned that he'd been having a hamstring problem. Rondo picked up some kind of injury in the 2010 playoffs that hampered his play and I don't think they ever discussed that. I don't think they follow your "very quick to say a given player wasn't 100% because of this or that after the fact" model.

[D.o.s.]

As far as Ray's hamstring:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/6422/doc-rivers-ray-allen-paul-pierce-and-kendrick-perkins-were-playing-hurt

That's from 2009. If that's "month's later" it's much closer to one month than one year.

edit: and Rondo's back injury, which was minor, in 2010 was reported by ESPN:
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=5244706

And  There's many, many more bits of news-y items like this one:
http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7920406/2012-nba-playoffs-doc-rivers-concerned-paul-pierce-knee-ray-allen-ankle

For every team.

[colincb]

Not sure where the chucker label comes from, but he's 3rd in usage behind Sullinger and Green and ahead of Rondo and Bass. Pretty much where you'd expect him to be.  He's an average offensive player based on points per possession with his strength being as a spot-up shooter where he is very good, as opposed to being an iso or PandR player where's he's not. His handle is below average and he has tunnel vision IMO as a distributor - the game doesn't slow down for him offensively.

Defensively, he is still a superior defender this year based on points per possession allowed after being elite in the past. Maybe it's a function of ankle injuries.  Still an elite off-the ball defender, but has had issues in isolation this year.

Overall, it seems like a lot of people have soured on him here and I suspect it was because their expectations were unrealistically high when he was in his second season. Nonetheless, he is almost exactly what he was coming in according to Draft Express, except he's a better 3FG shooter now.

My problem with AB is that he's a SG who doesn't provide the offense you need from the position and he's paired with a pass-first PG in Rondo.  He could be a good fit for a team looking for an elite backcourt defender to pair with a scoring PG. In the end, DA makes him a qualifying offer and the market decides his value.  Given how conservative the market was at the trade deadline, his value may well be lower now than when earlier negotiations were occurring.

[kozlodoev]

Not sure where the chucker label comes from, but he's 3rd in usage behind Sullinger and Green and ahead of Rondo and Bass.

The chucker label comes from the fact that the only thing he really can (or want) to do offensively is chuck long jumpers. This wasn't a usage comment, it was more based off of the fact that he's absolutely unable to move the ball or create anything off the dribble.

[RJ87]

Not sure where the chucker label comes from, but he's 3rd in usage behind Sullinger and Green and ahead of Rondo and Bass.

The chucker label comes from the fact that the only thing he really can (or want) to do offensively is chuck long jumpers. This wasn't a usage comment, it was more based off of the fact that he's absolutely unable to move the ball or create anything off the dribble.

Beat me to it.

To add to that, he still can't seem to finish at the rim at a respectable clip so when he does score it's usually from those long 2-pt shots, the most inefficient shot in basketball.

Overall, it seems like a lot of people have soured on him here and I suspect it was because their expectations were unrealistically high when he was in his second season.

I can only speak for myself, but all I really wanted out of Avery other than the on-ball defensive pressure, occasional cut to the basket, and a respectable 3-pt shot was some sort of development in his ball handling. I wasn't expecting him to become Rondo 2.0 or Kyrie-esque, just enough that he can occasionally bring the ball up.

Again just my opinion, but Avery doesn't play defense the way he used to either. This season it looks like he has placed more effort on the offensive end and it's really not his strong suit. Idk if that's a product of Brad Stevens or Avery being concerned about his next contract, but I miss the All-Defensive team level Avery - the energy and the hustle. Not the offense stopper that he's become. I just think he's gotten so far away from what made the fans excited about him and it hasn't benefited him at all.

[LooseCannon]

Not sure where the chucker label comes from, but he's 3rd in usage behind Sullinger and Green and ahead of Rondo and Bass.

The chucker label comes from the fact that the only thing he really can (or want) to do offensively is chuck long jumpers. This wasn't a usage comment, it was more based off of the fact that he's absolutely unable to move the ball or create anything off the dribble.

Taking long jumpers in and of itself doesn't make someone a chucker.  It also involves bad shot selection.  Is Bradley taking shots that the coach doesn't want him to take?  Is he forcing shots when he has better options?  If he is unable to create off the dribble, then it'd probably be stupid of him to pass up open shots in favor of trying to drive to the basket.

[RJ87]

Not sure where the chucker label comes from, but he's 3rd in usage behind Sullinger and Green and ahead of Rondo and Bass.

The chucker label comes from the fact that the only thing he really can (or want) to do offensively is chuck long jumpers. This wasn't a usage comment, it was more based off of the fact that he's absolutely unable to move the ball or create anything off the dribble.

Taking long jumpers in and of itself doesn't make someone a chucker.  It also involves bad shot selection.  Is Bradley taking shots that the coach doesn't want him to take?  Is he forcing shots when he has better options? If he is unable to create off the dribble, then it'd probably be stupid of him to pass up open shots in favor of trying to drive to the basket.

I think Avery is definitely guilty of that.

[SHAQATTACK]

Not sure where the chucker label comes from, but he's 3rd in usage behind Sullinger and Green and ahead of Rondo and Bass.

The chucker label comes from the fact that the only thing he really can (or want) to do offensively is chuck long jumpers. This wasn't a usage comment, it was more based off of the fact that he's absolutely unable to move the ball or create anything off the dribble.

Beat me to it.

To add to that, he still can't seem to finish at the rim at a respectable clip so when he does score it's usually from those long 2-pt shots, the most inefficient shot in basketball.

Overall, it seems like a lot of people have soured on him here and I suspect it was because their expectations were unrealistically high when he was in his second season.

I can only speak for myself, but all I really wanted out of Avery other than the on-ball defensive pressure, occasional cut to the basket, and a respectable 3-pt shot was some sort of development in his ball handling. I wasn't expecting him to become Rondo 2.0 or Kyrie-esque, just enough that he can occasionally bring the ball up.

Again just my opinion, but Avery doesn't play defense the way he used to either. This season it looks like he has placed more effort on the offensive end and it's really not his strong suit. Idk if that's a product of Brad Stevens or Avery being concerned about his next contract, but I miss the All-Defensive team level Avery - the energy and the hustle. Not the offense stopper that he's become. I just think he's gotten so far away from what made the fans excited about him and it hasn't benefited him at all.

TP!    ..... Says it all for me.  Good job.

[BballTim]

As far as Ray's hamstring:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/6422/doc-rivers-ray-allen-paul-pierce-and-kendrick-perkins-were-playing-hurt

That's from 2009. If that's "month's later" it's much closer to one month than one year.

edit: and Rondo's back injury, which was minor, in 2010 was reported by ESPN:
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=5244706

And  There's many, many more bits of news-y items like this one:
http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7920406/2012-nba-playoffs-doc-rivers-concerned-paul-pierce-knee-ray-allen-ankle

For every team.

  Good find. I stand corrected.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

AB is my favorite player on the team so I'm not going to argue with you guys what his value is b/c it would go on forever.

I will say to the people saying AB wasn't injured last season... AB said this off-season that he couldn't eat and lost a lot of weight that he just wasn't  right at the end of the season, that he was worn down by the end. Now, I don't have a link b/c I don't feel like searching for it but if you don't believe, that's fine. He had a half a season off of double shouler surgery, of course he would be spent by the time the end of the season came around.

Saying AB can't even defend Felton is laughable, as if that means ANYTHING, all players have a bad matchup with someone (that said, i don't care what happened in that series, AB can guard Felton just fine). He can guard and clamp down the best of them. LeBron can't guard Jeff Green... does that make him any less a great defender? Yeah, didn't think so.