Author Topic: Josh Smith available  (Read 29416 times)

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Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #60 on: February 03, 2014, 01:10:19 AM »

Online snively

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If Ainge wanted him at that salary we would have had him before he went to Detroit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is false. We never had the cap room to get him.

we had the assets and opportunity to trade for him and then give him an extension. We could have traded KG or Pierce plus a pick or prospect. Ainge was pretty clear that he was not interested in him.

Au contraire.  I don't think Atlanta was all that interested in what we had to offer in a sign and trade.
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Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2014, 01:31:22 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I'd choose Smith over Sully

I'd choose Smith over Asik

I'd choose Smith over Hump (tougher choice, but I would)

Even at his worst, Smith's production has beenonpar with someone like Sully.  At the VERY least he's a 16/7/3/1/1 guy.  At best he's a 18/9/1.5/2 guy. 

Like Rondo, Smith is a guy who can exclude any given night with a 30 point, 15 rebound, 8 assist game.  Sully might never record those type of numbers in his career.   

Also Smith's contract if he DID fit in, could actually be an asset.  If he ever cane even close to realising his potential he'd be an instant All-Star and a max contract guy.  Having him locked In for < 14m over the next 4 years could prove a bargain.  Is not like he's on a Amare / Gasol / Johnson like $20M a year deal.  He's only costing us 30% more than Wallace over the first three years and he's about 10x better a player.  The last year doesn't matter because he'd be an expiring contract anyway, abd hence a good trade asset.  If you are losing Wallace in the proves you'd be nuts not to do it.

Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2014, 02:21:53 AM »

Offline celtic -_- pride

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we need a center to pair with sullinger. sully gobbles up boards. plays decent defense and has a jumper. asik apparently is a prized option but he's overpaid/overrated. i really thought DA was planning on going for aldridge, his game would flourish with rondo, but its looking like hes gonna stick around in portland. josh smith would have to start and i don't like him with sully either because he's not really a defensive anchor and i don't really like his offensive game. if he does end up in green, he should have a no 3pt shooting clause in his contract
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Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2014, 02:32:50 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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I'd choose Smith over Sully

I'd choose Smith over Asik

I'd choose Smith over Hump (tougher choice, but I would)

Even at his worst, Smith's production has beenonpar with someone like Sully.  At the VERY least he's a 16/7/3/1/1 guy.  At best he's a 18/9/1.5/2 guy. 

Like Rondo, Smith is a guy who can exclude any given night with a 30 point, 15 rebound, 8 assist game.  Sully might never record those type of numbers in his career.   

Also Smith's contract if he DID fit in, could actually be an asset.  If he ever cane even close to realising his potential he'd be an instant All-Star and a max contract guy.  Having him locked In for < 14m over the next 4 years could prove a bargain.  Is not like he's on a Amare / Gasol / Johnson like $20M a year deal.  He's only costing us 30% more than Wallace over the first three years and he's about 10x better a player.  The last year doesn't matter because he'd be an expiring contract anyway, abd hence a good trade asset.  If you are losing Wallace in the proves you'd be nuts not to do it.

No doubt J-Smoove is highly talented, more talented than Sully.

But I'm under the impression he's like DMC of last year, JR Smith...maligned. Maybe a little bit of Rudy Gay of last yearand Jeff Green, coasting through games. Again the question is: at what point do you stop talking about potential.

J-Smoove can win games single handedly, putting up, like you said, monster numbers. But I've read he can also single handedly shoot you out of games.

Sully, however, will bring it every night. Grabbing a butt ton of rebounds, scoring efficiently, hitting 3's now. He will hustle. He will make "winning plays".



However, I do have a feeling there's a greater chance J-Smoove makes more of his potential than Jeff Green. Smith has better handles for one and doesn't rely on his scoring so much.

But there's still significant risk, since you're potentially building yourself a mediocrity treadmill with Smith's cap hit. I'm definitely not going to give up Sully for Smith, that's for sure.





You're right, though. People are too down on Smith.

A change of scenery could help.

Not having watched much of Detroit basketball, I suspect having adequate defenders instead of a defensive liability in Greg Monroe at the 4, J-Smoove might actually play the 3 pretty well (I've read he overhelps on D, perhaps this habit might change). On offense we'd have a better fit, for sure, with Sully and Olynyk being much more of outside threats.



And I think shedding Wallace with 2 or less picks while getting J-Smoove back is definitely something I think Ainge should consider. This has been on my mind, bugging me for the past couple days.



The upside is incredibly alluring, especially considering that he's going to come at a discount. Now you've got me daydreaming about Smith doing well on this roster.

The obligatory Rondo-Smith connection...

Smith/Sully/KO with the incredible size and inside-out game...

Smith/Hump/Sully with all the rebounding...

Of course, the defense with AB/Rondo and Smith would be incredible...

Throw in a semi-legit center like Asik, and you have quite a bit of potential...


But on the flip side...

Josh Smith launching long twos  :'(...

Winning us just enough games, tricking Ainge into committing more salary and dumping young players for role players, only for eternal first round exits...

Josh Smith is tormenting us, one minute he makes highlight plays looking like an amazing two way player, the next shooting lazy jumpers and playing lazy D...

Now there's hellfire in the Garden, crying babies everywhere, as Antoine Walker 2.0 launches another long 2, shooting us out of another game 7 in round 1 of the playoffs... :'(
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 03:45:38 AM by pokeKingCurtis »

Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2014, 06:15:12 AM »

Offline Depalma2002

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He is a power forward period.  Get past the bad shot selection.  If he is coming to boston are you ready to start him over sully?  Sully is the pf of future.  Smith is a rim protector and a very good defensive player.  Green might be inconsistent but he's efficient.  Could smith come to boston and play within himself?  If the deal is Wallace for smith straight up then you have to do it.  Bass is moved, hump is as well (even though I'd like him around).  A true center comes in, smith off the bench as combo forward?  Sully starts?  I don't think smith can play sf if he could green could be part of a package.  It's to bad smith is good passer, very good defender, rebounder justs seems to be Antoine part II

+1

Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2014, 08:07:20 AM »

Offline gpap

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Josh Smith is probably not the first guy I'd pick to help build my team around as I agree his shot selection and sometimes overall style of play can be frustrating.

However, I think if he's attainable, then it's a no-brainer to go after him. Especially if you could acquire him by dealing someone like Wallace or Jeff Green.

Again, I think alot of it is contingent on what Rondo's future is in Boston.

If the plan is to build around Rondo, then I think Smith makes too much sense.

Also, while I've become a HUGE fan and really appreciate what Sully has been doing this season, I also don't think it's unreasonable to consider playing him off the bench.

Sully is an amazing rebounder and plays hard. That said, I can't help but wonder if a guy like him is better suited coming off the bench, as he is a bit undersized for his position.

And by the way, I don't see that as a knock on Sullinger. Matter of fact, I think he could and would be a perfect 6th man, which to me is just as important as being an effective starter.

Futhermore, IF the plan is to compete next season (God hoping because I don't feel like sitting through another 55 loss season) then I think pairing Rondo with Smith, our lottery pick this year and maybe another pickup (like Gordon Hayward OR better yet, someone like Chris Bosh) would lead to us being VERY competitive in 2014/15.

Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2014, 08:22:26 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Atlanta was not sad to leave him go.


Detroit hasn't made it through one whole season.




His addition nor his subtraction has seem to have little effect the teams win loss record.



Good player, but being payed as a game/team changer.  He is not. 


Celtics would be better off not trading for Smith and his contract.

Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2014, 09:05:29 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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He is a power forward period.  Get past the bad shot selection.  If he is coming to boston are you ready to start him over sully? Sully is the pf of future.  Smith is a rim protector and a very good defensive player.  Green might be inconsistent but he's efficient.  Could smith come to boston and play within himself?  If the deal is Wallace for smith straight up then you have to do it.  Bass is moved, hump is as well (even though I'd like him around).  A true center comes in, smith off the bench as combo forward?  Sully starts?  I don't think smith can play sf if he could green could be part of a package.  It's to bad smith is good passer, very good defender, rebounder justs seems to be Antoine part II

+1
I love this. It's like some sort of mysterious mantra, "so-and-so is the so-and-so of the future", so we won't start anyone over him. Even if it's a vastly superior player.

And yes, Smith is a vastly superior player with an established NBA track record. And that does not mean he's some sort of world-beater, it simply means people have to come to terms with the fact that Sullinger is not the next greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah, he's a nice little player. But he has his flaws (shot selection, size, conditioning, lack of athleticism), which are at least as bad as Smith's.
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Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2014, 09:11:01 AM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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He is a power forward period.  Get past the bad shot selection.  If he is coming to boston are you ready to start him over sully? Sully is the pf of future.  Smith is a rim protector and a very good defensive player.  Green might be inconsistent but he's efficient.  Could smith come to boston and play within himself?  If the deal is Wallace for smith straight up then you have to do it.  Bass is moved, hump is as well (even though I'd like him around).  A true center comes in, smith off the bench as combo forward?  Sully starts?  I don't think smith can play sf if he could green could be part of a package.  It's to bad smith is good passer, very good defender, rebounder justs seems to be Antoine part II

+1
I love this. It's like some sort of mysterious mantra, "so-and-so is the so-and-so of the future", so we won't start anyone over him. Even if it's a vastly superior player.

And yes, Smith is a vastly superior player with an established NBA track record. And that does not mean he's some sort of world-beater, it simply means people have to come to terms with the fact that Sullinger is not the next greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah, he's a nice little player. But he has his flaws (shot selection, size, conditioning, lack of athleticism), which are at least as bad as Smith's.

However, Sully is still only 21 years old and just scratching the surface, while Smith is 27 and already reached his ceiling.
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Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2014, 09:12:31 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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He is a power forward period.  Get past the bad shot selection.  If he is coming to boston are you ready to start him over sully? Sully is the pf of future.  Smith is a rim protector and a very good defensive player.  Green might be inconsistent but he's efficient.  Could smith come to boston and play within himself?  If the deal is Wallace for smith straight up then you have to do it.  Bass is moved, hump is as well (even though I'd like him around).  A true center comes in, smith off the bench as combo forward?  Sully starts?  I don't think smith can play sf if he could green could be part of a package.  It's to bad smith is good passer, very good defender, rebounder justs seems to be Antoine part II

+1
I love this. It's like some sort of mysterious mantra, "so-and-so is the so-and-so of the future", so we won't start anyone over him. Even if it's a vastly superior player.

And yes, Smith is a vastly superior player with an established NBA track record. And that does not mean he's some sort of world-beater, it simply means people have to come to terms with the fact that Sullinger is not the next greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah, he's a nice little player. But he has his flaws (shot selection, size, conditioning, lack of athleticism), which are at least as bad as Smith's.

However, Sully is still only 21 years old and just scratching the surface, while Smith is 27 and already reached his ceiling.
He also has a back issue, so by the time he's 27 he may be playing 50 games a season. Just ask Emeka Okafor how well dealing with a chronic back condition worked for him.

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Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2014, 09:46:59 AM »

Offline BballTim

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He is a power forward period.  Get past the bad shot selection.  If he is coming to boston are you ready to start him over sully? Sully is the pf of future.  Smith is a rim protector and a very good defensive player.  Green might be inconsistent but he's efficient.  Could smith come to boston and play within himself?  If the deal is Wallace for smith straight up then you have to do it.  Bass is moved, hump is as well (even though I'd like him around).  A true center comes in, smith off the bench as combo forward?  Sully starts?  I don't think smith can play sf if he could green could be part of a package.  It's to bad smith is good passer, very good defender, rebounder justs seems to be Antoine part II

+1
I love this. It's like some sort of mysterious mantra, "so-and-so is the so-and-so of the future", so we won't start anyone over him. Even if it's a vastly superior player.

And yes, Smith is a vastly superior player with an established NBA track record. And that does not mean he's some sort of world-beater, it simply means people have to come to terms with the fact that Sullinger is not the next greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah, he's a nice little player. But he has his flaws (shot selection, size, conditioning, lack of athleticism), which are at least as bad as Smith's.

  Smith's a superior player the same way Jordan Crawford's vastly superior to many mediocre point guards. He's way above them in talent but he also hurts the team as much as he helps the team because of his bone-headed playing style.

  When we played Atlanta in the playoffs in 2012 I watched every game hoping that Smith drained every jumper he took in the first quarter of every game because I knew that meant he'd be killing his team in the 4th quarter when he wouldn't stop taking them. He's a lot like Antoine with better defense. If either of them would have stayed away from the jumpers and taken the majority of their shots near the rim they'd have been (or be) perennial all-stars. No coach was ever able to extract that type of play from them.

Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2014, 09:52:58 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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He is a power forward period.  Get past the bad shot selection.  If he is coming to boston are you ready to start him over sully? Sully is the pf of future.  Smith is a rim protector and a very good defensive player.  Green might be inconsistent but he's efficient.  Could smith come to boston and play within himself?  If the deal is Wallace for smith straight up then you have to do it.  Bass is moved, hump is as well (even though I'd like him around).  A true center comes in, smith off the bench as combo forward?  Sully starts?  I don't think smith can play sf if he could green could be part of a package.  It's to bad smith is good passer, very good defender, rebounder justs seems to be Antoine part II

+1
I love this. It's like some sort of mysterious mantra, "so-and-so is the so-and-so of the future", so we won't start anyone over him. Even if it's a vastly superior player.

And yes, Smith is a vastly superior player with an established NBA track record. And that does not mean he's some sort of world-beater, it simply means people have to come to terms with the fact that Sullinger is not the next greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah, he's a nice little player. But he has his flaws (shot selection, size, conditioning, lack of athleticism), which are at least as bad as Smith's.

  Smith's a superior player the same way Jordan Crawford's vastly superior to many mediocre point guards. He's way above them in talent but he also hurts the team as much as he helps the team because of his bone-headed playing style.

  When we played Atlanta in the playoffs in 2012 I watched every game hoping that Smith drained every jumper he took in the first quarter of every game because I knew that meant he'd be killing his team in the 4th quarter when he wouldn't stop taking them. He's a lot like Antoine with better defense. If either of them would have stayed away from the jumpers and taken the majority of their shots near the rim they'd have been (or be) perennial all-stars. No coach was ever able to extract that type of play from them.
I had exactly the same impression about Zach Randolph, and somehow it has worked out for him in Memphis.
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Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2014, 10:03:36 AM »

Offline Depalma2002

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He is a power forward period.  Get past the bad shot selection.  If he is coming to boston are you ready to start him over sully? Sully is the pf of future.  Smith is a rim protector and a very good defensive player.  Green might be inconsistent but he's efficient.  Could smith come to boston and play within himself?  If the deal is Wallace for smith straight up then you have to do it.  Bass is moved, hump is as well (even though I'd like him around).  A true center comes in, smith off the bench as combo forward?  Sully starts?  I don't think smith can play sf if he could green could be part of a package.  It's to bad smith is good passer, very good defender, rebounder justs seems to be Antoine part II

+1
I love this. It's like some sort of mysterious mantra, "so-and-so is the so-and-so of the future", so we won't start anyone over him. Even if it's a vastly superior player.

And yes, Smith is a vastly superior player with an established NBA track record. And that does not mean he's some sort of world-beater, it simply means people have to come to terms with the fact that Sullinger is not the next greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah, he's a nice little player. But he has his flaws (shot selection, size, conditioning, lack of athleticism), which are at least as bad as Smith's.

I'll agree that Smith has the longer track record, but I'll agree to disagree that Smith is a vastly superior player. In fact, I don't think he is superior at all right now. I'll take Sullinger now and I definitely expect Sullinger to take another leap or two over the next 2 seasons.

There season to date comparisons:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=sullija01&y1=2014&p2=smithjo03&y2=2014



Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #73 on: February 03, 2014, 10:04:32 AM »

Offline BballTim

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He is a power forward period.  Get past the bad shot selection.  If he is coming to boston are you ready to start him over sully? Sully is the pf of future.  Smith is a rim protector and a very good defensive player.  Green might be inconsistent but he's efficient.  Could smith come to boston and play within himself?  If the deal is Wallace for smith straight up then you have to do it.  Bass is moved, hump is as well (even though I'd like him around).  A true center comes in, smith off the bench as combo forward?  Sully starts?  I don't think smith can play sf if he could green could be part of a package.  It's to bad smith is good passer, very good defender, rebounder justs seems to be Antoine part II

+1
I love this. It's like some sort of mysterious mantra, "so-and-so is the so-and-so of the future", so we won't start anyone over him. Even if it's a vastly superior player.

And yes, Smith is a vastly superior player with an established NBA track record. And that does not mean he's some sort of world-beater, it simply means people have to come to terms with the fact that Sullinger is not the next greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah, he's a nice little player. But he has his flaws (shot selection, size, conditioning, lack of athleticism), which are at least as bad as Smith's.

  Smith's a superior player the same way Jordan Crawford's vastly superior to many mediocre point guards. He's way above them in talent but he also hurts the team as much as he helps the team because of his bone-headed playing style.

  When we played Atlanta in the playoffs in 2012 I watched every game hoping that Smith drained every jumper he took in the first quarter of every game because I knew that meant he'd be killing his team in the 4th quarter when he wouldn't stop taking them. He's a lot like Antoine with better defense. If either of them would have stayed away from the jumpers and taken the majority of their shots near the rim they'd have been (or be) perennial all-stars. No coach was ever able to extract that type of play from them.
I had exactly the same impression about Zach Randolph, and somehow it has worked out for him in Memphis.

  Probably. I thought he also had a pretty solid head case/locker room cancer reputation. Smith would be great to have if you can cut down on his bad shots and bad plays where he tries to do too much on offense.

   I think Rondo gives you a decent shot at that because he'll be handling the ball on offense much more than Josh (which solves the latter problem) and he'd be the PG most likely to help with shot selection. He was telling people like PP/KG/RA where to go and what to do on the court years ago, it's not like telling Smith the same would faze him. Still, for that money and that contract you'd better be pretty sure you can fix his game.

Re: Josh Smith available
« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2014, 10:22:38 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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That just means you had a bad read on Zach Randolph.  ;)
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