Rockets seek deal for Omer Asik

[BleedGreen1989]

I think it is fair to call Asik a Perkins type player. A better version but same type. Very limited offensive threats. Strong physical players with limited athleticism. Above average defense + rebounding. Asik doesn't have the athleticism to be put up there with the likes of Tyson Chandler or Joakim Noah.

A Perkins type player (body type, skill-set) is more apt comparison for Asik. I don't see that as an insult either. A better version of Perk is a really good player.

Yeah, I think that is fair.  Although I think some people underestimate his athleticism.  He is a very good athlete.  But he isn't Tyson Chandler, who is a freak athlete. 

I think Asik is a top 5 defensive center.  But he is also a bottom 5 offensive center.  On the right team though, that can still be very effective.

That's the point I wanted to bring up.

People are underestimating Asik's athletic ability. He's a very good athlete for a 7 footer.

[kozlodoev]

I don't have to admit to anything that isn't true. I'm just comparing things that I consider comparable (as opposed to mismatched periods of a players' careers):

Omer Asik (aged 24-26):
4,424 minutes, 8.4 DRB/36, ~26 DR%.

Kendrick Perkins (aged 24-26):
5,149 minutes, 7.2 DRB/36, ~23 DR%.

The difference is not large.

It becomes even more slight if you consider that in the season when they were aged 26 (which is typically the start of a player's prime, give or take) Asik played 50% of the minutes used in this calculation, and Perkins played about 15% of his minutes that year while coming back from major knee surgery.

Perhaps it gets evened out by the fact that Asik was a rookie in 2004 -- but while I can concede Asik is a somewhat better rebounder, I can't in good faith term him "significantly better", all things considered.

Asik's career average is 9.0 defensive rebounds per 36. Last year it was 10.0/36.
Perkins' best year in his entire Boston career for defensive rebounds was 7.3  per 36.

Asik, for his career, grabs almost 25% more defensive rebounds than Perkins' best year.

I don't know where you got your numbers, mine are:

Asik (career): 4.8 DRB in 19.2 MIN
Asik (12-13): 11.7 DRB in 30.0 MIN
Perkins (09-10): 5.6 DRB in 27.6 MIN

I'd say 25% - 35% more defensive rebounds per minute is pretty significant.

Rebounding rates matter, because unlike raw rebounds, rebounding rates are intrinsically pace-adjusted. Therefore, a Celtics team who consistently runs at a slower than the average pace will create less rebound opportunities.

I'm not going to repeat my entire argument -- I've made it multiple times in this thread, everyone who's really interested in it may go back and read it.

I've just taken the liberty of highlighting the statements you made that are incorrect. Asik did not average 11.7 defensive rebounds last year (he averaged 11.7 total, 8.3 of them defensive), and Perkins has had multiple seasons with 8+ defensive rebounds per 36 minutes.

[LarBrd33]

If you're trying to imagine Asik on the Celtics:







He'd need a new number.

[Fafnir]

I think it is fair to call Asik a Perkins type player. A better version but same type. Very limited offensive threats. Strong physical players with limited athleticism. Above average defense + rebounding. Asik doesn't have the athleticism to be put up there with the likes of Tyson Chandler or Joakim Noah.

A Perkins type player (body type, skill-set) is more apt comparison for Asik. I don't see that as an insult either. A better version of Perk is a really good player.

Yeah, I think that is fair.  Although I think some people underestimate his athleticism.  He is a very good athlete.  But he isn't Tyson Chandler, who is a freak athlete. 

I think Asik is a top 5 defensive center.  But he is also a bottom 5 offensive center.  On the right team though, that can still be very effective.

That's the point I wanted to bring up.

People are underestimating Asik's athletic ability. He's a very good athlete for a 7 footer.

So was Perkins till his knee injury robbed him of his quickness and vertical. Don't believe me, go watch him 07-08 through 09-10. Just so much more quickness and lift, makes me sad.

(and yes I still watch playoff games of the 07-08 team from time to time. Scary to recall that LeBron was even more of a freak 5 years ago)

[Chris]

I think it is fair to call Asik a Perkins type player. A better version but same type. Very limited offensive threats. Strong physical players with limited athleticism. Above average defense + rebounding. Asik doesn't have the athleticism to be put up there with the likes of Tyson Chandler or Joakim Noah.

A Perkins type player (body type, skill-set) is more apt comparison for Asik. I don't see that as an insult either. A better version of Perk is a really good player.

Yeah, I think that is fair.  Although I think some people underestimate his athleticism.  He is a very good athlete.  But he isn't Tyson Chandler, who is a freak athlete. 

I think Asik is a top 5 defensive center.  But he is also a bottom 5 offensive center.  On the right team though, that can still be very effective.

That's the point I wanted to bring up.

People are underestimating Asik's athletic ability. He's a very good athlete for a 7 footer.

So was Perkins till his knee injury robbed him of his quickness and vertical. Don't believe me, go watch him 07-08 through 09-10. Just so much more quickness and lift, makes me sad.

(and yes I still watch playoff games of the 07-08 team from time to time. Scary to recall that LeBron was even more of a freak 5 years ago)

Right.  Perkins was a very decieving athlete.  But I still think Asik is a better athlete than even pre-injury Perk. 

[BleedGreen1989]

I think it is fair to call Asik a Perkins type player. A better version but same type. Very limited offensive threats. Strong physical players with limited athleticism. Above average defense + rebounding. Asik doesn't have the athleticism to be put up there with the likes of Tyson Chandler or Joakim Noah.

A Perkins type player (body type, skill-set) is more apt comparison for Asik. I don't see that as an insult either. A better version of Perk is a really good player.

Yeah, I think that is fair.  Although I think some people underestimate his athleticism.  He is a very good athlete.  But he isn't Tyson Chandler, who is a freak athlete. 

I think Asik is a top 5 defensive center.  But he is also a bottom 5 offensive center.  On the right team though, that can still be very effective.

That's the point I wanted to bring up.

People are underestimating Asik's athletic ability. He's a very good athlete for a 7 footer.

So was Perkins till his knee injury robbed him of his quickness and vertical. Don't believe me, go watch him 07-08 through 09-10. Just so much more quickness and lift, makes me sad.

(and yes I still watch playoff games of the 07-08 team from time to time. Scary to recall that LeBron was even more of a freak 5 years ago)

Yeah watching Perk now compared to pre-injury is depressing.

Here's some Perkin's highlights from 2008 to help heal the wounds...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsPufe2r0R4

[D.o.s.]

More importantly, what do you guys think the final "bid" for Asik is going to look like?

[kozlodoev]

More importantly, what do you guys think the final "bid" for Asik is going to look like?

Asik for Humphries and a pick? I just don't think the Rockets will have any interest in Bass or Lee, and they're probably not taking Wallace's contract back.

[Chris]

More importantly, what do you guys think the final "bid" for Asik is going to look like?

Bass, Vitor, and a pick. 

[D.o.s.]

More importantly, what do you guys think the final "bid" for Asik is going to look like?

Asik for Humphries and a pick? I just don't think the Rockets will have any interest in Bass or Lee, and they're probably not taking Wallace's contract back.

Should've been more clear--I meant the bid that "wins" Asik, not just the C's final offer.

[kozlodoev]

More importantly, what do you guys think the final "bid" for Asik is going to look like?

Asik for Humphries and a pick? I just don't think the Rockets will have any interest in Bass or Lee, and they're probably not taking Wallace's contract back.

Should've been more clear--I meant the bid that "wins" Asik, not just the C's final offer.

Hard to say. Have the Sixers really offered Thad Young? What the heck are they going to do with Asik (they're certainly not going to play Asik and Hawes together with any reasonable success). And why aren't the Rockets all over this, Young seems to fit quite nicely as a backup combo wing, behind Parsons and Jones, and can start if Jones sputters. Sure, the contract is not the most desirable one, but at some point you have to pay to have a good roster.

[D.o.s.]

More importantly, what do you guys think the final "bid" for Asik is going to look like?

Asik for Humphries and a pick? I just don't think the Rockets will have any interest in Bass or Lee, and they're probably not taking Wallace's contract back.

Should've been more clear--I meant the bid that "wins" Asik, not just the C's final offer.

Hard to say. Have the Sixers really offered Thad Young? What the heck are they going to do with Asik (they're certainly not going to play Asik and Hawes together with any reasonable success). And why aren't the Rockets all over this, Young seems to fit quite nicely as a backup combo wing, behind Parsons and Jones, and can start if Jones sputters. Sure, the contract is not the most desirable one, but at some point you have to pay to have a good roster.

[D.o.s.]

I should probably add that I go back and forth on whether I want Asik on the Celtics.

Watching the C's in the KG era has been great, obvs, because the defense always made the games fun to watch. But then I'd stay up and watch the West Coast late game, and it'd be someone like the post-Carmelo Nuggets or the Don Nelson Warriors or the dying gasps of the Steve Nash Suns, and watching fast basketball was so much fun that I often wondered (and still do, actually) why more teams don't play like that in the Eastern Conference.

Defense heavy hoops is like missionary. It gets the job done, but it gets boring.

As a fan, I wouldn't be opposed to them doing something completely different.

[kozlodoev]

I should probably add that I go back and forth on whether I want Asik on the Celtics.

Watching the C's in the KG era has been great, obvs, because the defense always made the games fun to watch. But then I'd stay up and watch the West Coast late game, and it'd be someone like the post-Carmelo Nuggets or the Don Nelson Warriors or the dying gasps of the Steve Nash Suns, and watching fast basketball was so much fun that I often wondered (and still do, actually) why more teams don't play like that in the Eastern Conference.

Defense heavy hoops is like missionary. It gets the job done, but it gets boring.

As a fan, I wouldn't be opposed to them doing something completely different.

I think I've been spoiled by a KG era in which the standard was so close to perfection that just being an OK team simply looks like horrible basketball right now.

And still, do we really know how good this team is going to be when you add Rondo and Asik to it? And we can do it and still have a very solid bench.

[BleedGreen1989]

More importantly, what do you guys think the final "bid" for Asik is going to look like?

Bass, Vitor, and a pick.

Man that would be tough to swallow.

If giving up a first rounder, I want to send out Lee.

Also really want to hang on to Vitor.