Rockets seek deal for Omer Asik

[JBcat]

Bass and a protected first round pick is as far as I will go for Asik.

I would be willing to include Vitor. He would be a nice backup for howard and the Cs would be hard pressed to find him minutes with Asik, Sully and KO as the big man rotation. I also think that rotation needs a more athletic 4th. Humph could fill that role this year.

Interesting thing is that this trade would create a team with a similar makeup to last years western conference final 56-26 Memphis team.

Celtics      Grizz
Asik         Gasol
Sully        Randolph
Green        Prince/Gay was traded mid season
AB           Allen
Rondo        Conley

Where gasol and randolph are better than Asik and Sully they are a very similare combo. I think TA and AB are a was and Rondo+Green are better than Conely and Prince/Gay.

I also think that a bench of Wallace, Crawford (who i would trade),Lee, Humph and KO could be a deep solid unit moving forward. Chemistry will obviously be an issue.

We could add Vitor, but I kind of like the idea if mixing KO, Vitor, and Humph as the 3rd and 4th bigs depending on matchups and insurance in case of injuries.  KO still has to prove he can be a solid rotation player on a winning team.

[CFAN38]

Bass and a protected first round pick is as far as I will go for Asik.

I would be willing to include Vitor. He would be a nice backup for howard and the Cs would be hard pressed to find him minutes with Asik, Sully and KO as the big man rotation. I also think that rotation needs a more athletic 4th. Humph could fill that role this year.

Interesting thing is that this trade would create a team with a similar makeup to last years western conference final 56-26 Memphis team.

Celtics      Grizz
Asik         Gasol
Sully        Randolph
Green        Prince/Gay was traded mid season
AB           Allen
Rondo        Conley

Where gasol and randolph are better than Asik and Sully they are a very similare combo. I think TA and AB are a was and Rondo+Green are better than Conely and Prince/Gay.

I also think that a bench of Wallace, Crawford (who i would trade),Lee, Humph and KO could be a deep solid unit moving forward. Chemistry will obviously be an issue.

We could add Vitor, but I kind of like the idea if mixing KO, Vitor, and Humph as the 3rd and 4th bigs depending on matchups and insurance in case of injuries.  KO still has to prove he can be a solid rotation player on a winning team.

Yes but Humphries will still be around to pick up for injuries or KO's struggles. The Cs would also have the option of going small with wallace at the 4. This also leaves DA a roster spot for next draft that will be nicely filled by his favorite type of player to draft, an undersized 4.

[JBcat]

Bass and a protected first round pick is as far as I will go for Asik.

I would be willing to include Vitor. He would be a nice backup for howard and the Cs would be hard pressed to find him minutes with Asik, Sully and KO as the big man rotation. I also think that rotation needs a more athletic 4th. Humph could fill that role this year.

Interesting thing is that this trade would create a team with a similar makeup to last years western conference final 56-26 Memphis team.

Celtics      Grizz
Asik         Gasol
Sully        Randolph
Green        Prince/Gay was traded mid season
AB           Allen
Rondo        Conley

Where gasol and randolph are better than Asik and Sully they are a very similare combo. I think TA and AB are a was and Rondo+Green are better than Conely and Prince/Gay.

I also think that a bench of Wallace, Crawford (who i would trade),Lee, Humph and KO could be a deep solid unit moving forward. Chemistry will obviously be an issue.

We could add Vitor, but I kind of like the idea if mixing KO, Vitor, and Humph as the 3rd and 4th bigs depending on matchups and insurance in case of injuries.  KO still has to prove he can be a solid rotation player on a winning team.

Yes but Humphries will still be around to pick up for injuries or KO's struggles. The Cs would also have the option of going small with wallace at the 4. This also leaves DA a roster spot for next draft that will be nicely filled by his favorite type of player to draft, an undersized 4.

Just checked the trade machine, and we would need to add another small salary along with Bass, so yeah I could live with that deal. 

[LooseCannon]

Asik would probably make this team a few wins better this year, but unless you're somehow going to replace Green with a star wing player in the near future without giving up more talent elsewhere, I don't see how it sets the team up to be really competitive in the near future.  Trading Bass for Asik would be a somewhat different story, though I'm not sure I see the incentive for Houston.

It could be better at setting up the team to be more competitive in the near future if you think it will be easier to acquire a star SF rather than a star C in the next year or so.

[LooseCannon]

I am not making stuff up because I never claimed he was a better rebounder.

I misspoke. You claimed he was a "comparable defensive rebounder", which has been debunked by several people here. The point is, you "made that up" based on your subjective memory but have nothing to back it up with.

Except it hasn't been debunked. At similar ages, Asik and Perkins were similar players. Perkins got hurt when he was supposed to go into his prime, and Asik had a career year.

If you want to pretend I'm imagining this, that's not my problem.

Perkins from 07-08 to 09-10: 6319 MP, 21.8 DRB%, 6.7 DRB/36min
Asik for his career: 4735 MP, 27.8 DRB%, 9.0 DRB/36 min

You can say that they were similar players, but you have to admit that Asik was a significantly better rebounder if you want to retain any credibility.  For comparison, the gap in defensive rebounding percentage between the two over that period is bigger than the difference in career DRB% for Sullinger and Bass.

[kozlodoev]

I am not making stuff up because I never claimed he was a better rebounder.

I misspoke. You claimed he was a "comparable defensive rebounder", which has been debunked by several people here. The point is, you "made that up" based on your subjective memory but have nothing to back it up with.

Except it hasn't been debunked. At similar ages, Asik and Perkins were similar players. Perkins got hurt when he was supposed to go into his prime, and Asik had a career year.

If you want to pretend I'm imagining this, that's not my problem.

Perkins from 07-08 to 09-10: 6319 MP, 21.8 DRB%, 6.7 DRB/36min
Asik for his career: 4735 MP, 27.8 DRB%, 9.0 DRB/36 min

You can say that they were similar players, but you have to admit that Asik was a significantly better rebounder if you want to retain any credibility.  For comparison, the gap in defensive rebounding percentage between the two over that period is bigger than the difference in career DRB% for Sullinger and Bass.

I don't have to admit to anything that isn't true. I'm just comparing things that I consider comparable (as opposed to mismatched periods of a players' careers):

Omer Asik (aged 24-26):
4,424 minutes, 8.4 DRB/36, ~26 DR%.

Kendrick Perkins (aged 24-26):
5,149 minutes, 7.2 DRB/36, ~23 DR%.

The difference is not large.

It becomes even more slight if you consider that in the season when they were aged 26 (which is typically the start of a player's prime, give or take) Asik played 50% of the minutes used in this calculation, and Perkins played about 15% of his minutes that year while coming back from major knee surgery.

Perhaps it gets evened out by the fact that Asik was a rookie in 2004 -- but while I can concede Asik is a somewhat better rebounder, I can't in good faith term him "significantly better", all things considered.

[indeedproceed]

I am not making stuff up because I never claimed he was a better rebounder.

I misspoke. You claimed he was a "comparable defensive rebounder", which has been debunked by several people here. The point is, you "made that up" based on your subjective memory but have nothing to back it up with.

Except it hasn't been debunked. At similar ages, Asik and Perkins were similar players. Perkins got hurt when he was supposed to go into his prime, and Asik had a career year.

If you want to pretend I'm imagining this, that's not my problem.

Perkins from 07-08 to 09-10: 6319 MP, 21.8 DRB%, 6.7 DRB/36min
Asik for his career: 4735 MP, 27.8 DRB%, 9.0 DRB/36 min

You can say that they were similar players, but you have to admit that Asik was a significantly better rebounder if you want to retain any credibility.  For comparison, the gap in defensive rebounding percentage between the two over that period is bigger than the difference in career DRB% for Sullinger and Bass.

I don't have to admit to anything that isn't true. I'm just comparing things that I consider comparable (as opposed to mismatched periods of a players' careers):

Omer Asik (aged 24-26):
4,424 minutes, 8.4 DRB/36, ~26 DR%.

Kendrick Perkins (aged 24-26):
5,149 minutes, 7.2 DRB/36, ~23 DR%.

The difference is not large.

It becomes even more slight if you consider that in the season when they were aged 26 (which is typically the start of a player's prime, give or take) Asik played 50% of the minutes used in this calculation, and Perkins played about 15% of his minutes that year while coming back from major knee surgery.

Perhaps it gets evened out by the fact that Asik was a rookie in 2004 -- but while I can concede Asik is a somewhat better rebounder, I can't in good faith term him "significantly better", all things considered.

But to put it in context, what you're actually saying is that you can't in good faith call Asik a 'significantly better' rebounder than the player Kendrick Perkins *could've become* had he never injured his knee.

[Who]

I think it is fair to call Asik a Perkins type player. A better version but same type. Very limited offensive threats. Strong physical players with limited athleticism. Above average defense + rebounding. Asik doesn't have the athleticism to be put up there with the likes of Tyson Chandler or Joakim Noah.

A Perkins type player (body type, skill-set) is more apt comparison for Asik. I don't see that as an insult either. A better version of Perk is a really good player.

[ssspence]

I continue to smell a Cats / Cs / Rockets deal.

Trade prediction:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pyhnj9m

HOU get: Bass, MKG
CHA gets: Jeff Green
BOS gets: Asik, Hayward, Taylor, Smith

Cs cut Marshon Brooks before completing the deal.

[kozlodoev]

I continue to smell a Cats / Cs / Rockets deal.

Trade prediction:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pyhnj9m

HOU get: Bass, MKG
CHA gets: Jeff Green
BOS gets: Asik, Hayward, Taylor, Smith

Cs cut Marshon Brooks before completing the deal.

Haywood?

[ssspence]

I continue to smell a Cats / Cs / Rockets deal.

Trade prediction:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pyhnj9m

HOU get: Bass, MKG
CHA gets: Jeff Green
BOS gets: Asik, Hayward, Taylor, Smith

Cs cut Marshon Brooks before completing the deal.

Haywood?

yessir. thanks.

one more footnote: either Taylor or Smith is the best NBA player from this deal in 3 years, and the two of them might be the best two. get 'em Danny....

[D.o.s.]

What's the word on Smith and Taylor?

I don't really want to see Green head out, but that's not a bad trade on the face of it.

[ssspence]

What's the word on Smith and Taylor?

I don't really want to see Green head out, but that's not a bad trade on the face of it.

love both (see above).

[Chris]

I think it is fair to call Asik a Perkins type player. A better version but same type. Very limited offensive threats. Strong physical players with limited athleticism. Above average defense + rebounding. Asik doesn't have the athleticism to be put up there with the likes of Tyson Chandler or Joakim Noah.

A Perkins type player (body type, skill-set) is more apt comparison for Asik. I don't see that as an insult either. A better version of Perk is a really good player.

Yeah, I think that is fair.  Although I think some people underestimate his athleticism.  He is a very good athlete.  But he isn't Tyson Chandler, who is a freak athlete. 

I think Asik is a top 5 defensive center.  But he is also a bottom 5 offensive center.  On the right team though, that can still be very effective. 

[byennie]

I don't have to admit to anything that isn't true. I'm just comparing things that I consider comparable (as opposed to mismatched periods of a players' careers):

Omer Asik (aged 24-26):
4,424 minutes, 8.4 DRB/36, ~26 DR%.

Kendrick Perkins (aged 24-26):
5,149 minutes, 7.2 DRB/36, ~23 DR%.

The difference is not large.

It becomes even more slight if you consider that in the season when they were aged 26 (which is typically the start of a player's prime, give or take) Asik played 50% of the minutes used in this calculation, and Perkins played about 15% of his minutes that year while coming back from major knee surgery.

Perhaps it gets evened out by the fact that Asik was a rookie in 2004 -- but while I can concede Asik is a somewhat better rebounder, I can't in good faith term him "significantly better", all things considered.

Asik's career average is 9.0 defensive rebounds per 36. Last year it was 10.0/36.
Perkins' best year in his entire Boston career for defensive rebounds was 7.3  per 36.

Asik, for his career, grabs almost 25% more defensive rebounds than Perkins' best year.

I don't know where you got your numbers, mine are:

Asik (career): 4.8 DRB in 19.2 MIN
Asik (12-13): 11.7 DRB in 30.0 MIN
Perkins (09-10): 5.6 DRB in 27.6 MIN

I'd say 25% - 35% more defensive rebounds per minute is pretty significant.