Rondo Trade w/ Jazz

[PhoSita]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=k6qhqjz

Rondo + Lee

for

Burke + Kanter + Biedrins + 1st (ideally 2014)


Not sure if the Jazz would agree to this, but if they would, I think this would be a nice return for Rondo.

Jazz would get a latter-day Stockton to pair with their young Malone in Derrick Favors.  The Celtics get a double double threat with legit center size and a post game in Kanter and a nice point guard prospect in Burke, plus a 1st round pick.  Hard to imagine a better haul for Rondo.

[Endless Paradise]

Jazz are now full in on their rebuild as of this season after spending the past few years in the woeful treadmill of mediocrity; trade makes no sense for them and would just mark a return to the aforementioned treadmill of mediocrity.  Adding Rondo to that team isn't enough to make them true contenders in the west; it's honestly barely enough to even get them to the playoffs.  I don't think there's a chance they give up one of their more promising prospects in Kanter, their newly drafted point guard, and their extremely valuable 1st rounder for that package; not a good return for the Jazz in the least.  Also, they're not going to need Lee at all and would just be saddled with his contract.

[PhoSita]

See, I tend to disagree.  I think the Jazz franchise has a fanbase that is used to having a winning team and the Jazz would jump at the chance to secure a competitive core long-term.  Also, that team, perhaps more than any other, would likely appreciate the value that a gifted passer like Rondo can bring to a team.

Further, I'm not entirely convinced that Kanter and Favors are a great fit together offensively.  Favors is the real talent on that team right now, followed by Gordon Hayward, and they'd be well advised to try to add players to the team to help maximize those talents.  Trey Burke is probably going to be a nice player but as a mid-late lottery pick in a very weak draft, I don't think he's really expected to be more than an average starter / productive back-up.

Adding Rondo to that team would not make them instantly a playoff team, but it would put them a couple of solid rotation pieces and some experience away from being one, I think.

[moiso]

I like the trade for the Celtics but I agree with Endless Paradise.  The Jazz finally blew up their team all the way.  I think this trade would undo that.  They have been letting good players in their prime like Jefferson and Milsap go in order to start fresh and young.  They won't suddenly change course and add Rondo and Lee.  Plus the Celtics would be the team including the 1st in this deal.

[PhoSita]

I like the trade for the Celtics but I agree with Endless Paradise.  The Jazz finally blew up their team all the way.  I think this trade would undo that.  They have been letting good players in their prime like Jefferson and Milsap go in order to start fresh and young.  They won't suddenly change course and add Rondo and Lee.  Plus the Celtics would be the team including the 1st in this deal.

I would argue they let Jefferson and Millsap go because they had Favors and Kanter behind them and it didn't make sense to continue investing money in older, more expensive guys when there were younger, cheaper alternatives behind them who had higher upside.

I think the opportunity to pair Favors, a potential emerging star big man, with an elite point guard would change the calculus for them.

[Fan from VT]

I think the chance to do a rondo/utah trade is passed. The time to do it would have been before they lat both milsap and jefferson go. Then we could have done rondo for favors or kanter and some picks and they could have kept milsap and contended with a real frontcourt. Now it doesnt make much sense to trade for a vet like rondo but leave yourself with half a frintcourt.

[PhoSita]

Now it doesnt make much sense to trade for a vet like rondo but leave yourself with half a frintcourt.

I was thinking that, but really, what is probably more conducive to long term success, combining an elite passing point guard with Favors, or moving forward with Favors and Kanter and an average point guard in Burke?

I'd go with Rondo and Favors, personally.  They could be a poor-man's version of what the Clips have with CP3 and Blake Griffin.  Better on defense than that combo, too.

All you'd need to do is find a solid starting center to put next to Favors.  Not the easiest or cheapest thing to do, but not super challenging -- players like that are available in free agency.  A player like Omer Asik or Gortat (both probably available in trade) would be great; even a Robin Lopez or a Samuel Dalembert sort of player would work.

[ddb]

The Jazz would seriously laugh in Danny's face over this trade.

Trey Burke, Kanter AND an expiring contract AND their 2014 pick? 

Dude.  Why would Utah ever do that? 

They have Burke/Hayward/Favors/Kanter as a core.  they're going to get another top 5 pick this season because there's no way that core is winning a lot of games out West.  So let's just pencil in Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker at the 3....
now you're talking Burke/Hayward/Parker/Favors/Kanter PLUS a sh**tton of Cap space to use this year or next year. 

They're on the right track.  They aren't going to screw up that plan for Rondo.  sorry.  Back to the drawing board buddy

[Endless Paradise]

Now it doesnt make much sense to trade for a vet like rondo but leave yourself with half a frintcourt.

I was thinking that, but really, what is probably more conducive to long term success, combining an elite passing point guard with Favors, or moving forward with Favors and Kanter and an average point guard in Burke?

I'd go with Rondo and Favors, personally.  They could be a poor-man's version of what the Clips have with CP3 and Blake Griffin.  Better on defense than that combo, too.

All you'd need to do is find a solid starting center to put next to Favors.  Not the easiest or cheapest thing to do, but not super challenging -- players like that are available in free agency.  A player like Omer Asik or Gortat (both probably available in trade) would be great; even a Robin Lopez or a Samuel Dalembert sort of player would work.

I want to focus on your "poor-man's version" assessment of Rondo and Favors.  You're basically telling the Jazz to tread water with those two in hopes of finding critical pieces to add to their team.  Not that there's any issue with that - until you realize that ever since Malone left and Stockton retired, the Jazz have been running stop-gap measures in hopes of finding those difference-making players.  It hasn't worked for them thus far; they've been middling contenders at best for about ten years.  Now they're abandoning that plan and going full in with their rebuild because they figure they might as well try something new.  What's the appeal in essentially maintaining the status quo if that hasn't been all that successful for them?

As far as the argument about the fan base: come on, this is the same team that accepted a blatant salary dump $24+ million in the Warriors' dead-weight just a few months ago.  Why?  Because they received two first-rounders for it.  I trust the Jazz FO have already weighed the merits of conceding this season if they were willing to make that move.

[PhoSita]

Now it doesnt make much sense to trade for a vet like rondo but leave yourself with half a frintcourt.

I was thinking that, but really, what is probably more conducive to long term success, combining an elite passing point guard with Favors, or moving forward with Favors and Kanter and an average point guard in Burke?

I'd go with Rondo and Favors, personally.  They could be a poor-man's version of what the Clips have with CP3 and Blake Griffin.  Better on defense than that combo, too.

All you'd need to do is find a solid starting center to put next to Favors.  Not the easiest or cheapest thing to do, but not super challenging -- players like that are available in free agency.  A player like Omer Asik or Gortat (both probably available in trade) would be great; even a Robin Lopez or a Samuel Dalembert sort of player would work.

I want to focus on your "poor-man's version" assessment of Rondo and Favors.  You're basically telling the Jazz to tread water with those two in hopes of finding critical pieces to add to their team. 

Let me be clear -- I view Paul and Griffin as the core of a 60+ win team.

When I say Rondo and Favors would be the "poor man's version" of that, what I mean is that I think if Favors turns into the kind of player I believe he will, that the Jazz would have a 50+ win combo there.

I don't think finding the "critical" pieces would be that hard.  Hayward is already a nice piece.  They could add a complementary scorer, a solid anchor at center, and some defensive role players through free agency and the draft. 


My feeling on this is that Derrick Favors is the kind of young big man you can build a team around, but you need to find a high quality point guard who can maximize his talents.  I wish the Celtics had a super-talented young big man like that, because then I'd feel much more confident about the idea of rebuilding with Rondo instead of trading him.

(Under the same reasoning, I see the Kings as a potential trade partner; however, I see this Jazz scenario as more likely than the McLemore scenario with the Kings that's been talked about elsewhere)

[PhoSita]

The Jazz would seriously laugh in Danny's face over this trade.

Trey Burke, Kanter AND an expiring contract AND their 2014 pick? 

Dude.  Why would Utah ever do that? 

They have Burke/Hayward/Favors/Kanter as a core.  they're going to get another top 5 pick this season because there's no way that core is winning a lot of games out West.  So let's just pencil in Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker at the 3....
now you're talking Burke/Hayward/Parker/Favors/Kanter PLUS a sh**tton of Cap space to use this year or next year. 

They're on the right track.  They aren't going to screw up that plan for Rondo.  sorry.  Back to the drawing board buddy

Two things --

1. I don't think their team is going to be as bad this season as you say, primarily because their frontcourt is going to be too productive.  I'd pencil them in for close to 30 wins.

2. Their future with Rondo + Favors + cap space to use would be a lot brighter, in my opinion, than their future with Burke + Favors + Kanter + mid to late lottery pick + cap space.



Also, in the trade proposal I said the pick would ideally be a 2014 pick.  I think the trade would still work for the Cs if the pick were 2015 or 2016.

[Endless Paradise]

If anything, the Kings would be a more realistic target given the new owners and the eagerness to end their playoff drought.  This just doesn't make much sense for the Jazz right now.  They're not desperate to get back in the playoffs; they've made it to the postseason more often than not in recent times, but they haven't gone anywhere.  They're definitely more inclined to roll the dice with the lottery this season.

[Fan from VT]

The teams I could potentially see both wanting Rondo, having a need for Rondo, and possibly packaging enough to get him are:

Atlanta
Houston
Milwaukee
Sacramento

[Moranis]

Now it doesnt make much sense to trade for a vet like rondo but leave yourself with half a frintcourt.

I was thinking that, but really, what is probably more conducive to long term success, combining an elite passing point guard with Favors, or moving forward with Favors and Kanter and an average point guard in Burke?

I'd go with Rondo and Favors, personally.  They could be a poor-man's version of what the Clips have with CP3 and Blake Griffin.  Better on defense than that combo, too.

All you'd need to do is find a solid starting center to put next to Favors.  Not the easiest or cheapest thing to do, but not super challenging -- players like that are available in free agency.  A player like Omer Asik or Gortat (both probably available in trade) would be great; even a Robin Lopez or a Samuel Dalembert sort of player would work.

I want to focus on your "poor-man's version" assessment of Rondo and Favors.  You're basically telling the Jazz to tread water with those two in hopes of finding critical pieces to add to their team. 

Let me be clear -- I view Paul and Griffin as the core of a 60+ win team.

When I say Rondo and Favors would be the "poor man's version" of that, what I mean is that I think if Favors turns into the kind of player I believe he will, that the Jazz would have a 50+ win combo there.

I don't think finding the "critical" pieces would be that hard.  Hayward is already a nice piece.  They could add a complementary scorer, a solid anchor at center, and some defensive role players through free agency and the draft. 


My feeling on this is that Derrick Favors is the kind of young big man you can build a team around, but you need to find a high quality point guard who can maximize his talents.  I wish the Celtics had a super-talented young big man like that, because then I'd feel much more confident about the idea of rebuilding with Rondo instead of trading him.

(Under the same reasoning, I see the Kings as a potential trade partner; however, I see this Jazz scenario as more likely than the McLemore scenario with the Kings that's been talked about elsewhere)

Yeah but how long till Favors turns into that player.  If it isn't for at least a couple of years that puts Rondo on the wrong side of 30 and the core doesn't make any sense. 

The Jazz are much better off without trading for Rondo unless they get him incredibly cheap, which is definitely not what the trade in this thread is.

[pearljammer10]

The teams I could potentially see both wanting Rondo, having a need for Rondo, and possibly packaging enough to get him are:

Atlanta
Houston
Milwaukee
Sacramento

Rondo Howard would make a nice combo for Houston but I'm not sure they need a ball dominate point guard with Harden needing the ball in his hands so much.

Bucks would be a decent fit with Rondo alongside Sanders and Mayo, who proved he could shoot the three ball at a high percentage last year.

Hawks could use anything really. Rondo Horford would look good. Would probably have to get Teague back...Would that be worth it?

Sactown is in the same boat at Atl and we would have to get Vasquez back.

My problem with trading with any of these teams is that we wouldnt get nearly the fair return we would need for a Rondo trade.

Cousins, Horford, Sanders wouldnt be involved in any trade and thats where I would say no and keep Rondo.