Author Topic: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?  (Read 15357 times)

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Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2013, 08:24:22 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I heard Rondo put on 15 lbs of muscle this offseason, and he's in the best shape of his life, and he knows it weird but his knee actually feels stronger than it did before the tear.

Let's hope so

I heard Rondo put on 15 lbs of muscle this offseason, and he's in the best shape of his life, and he knows it weird but his knee actually feels stronger than it did before the tear.
Putting on extra weight after a lower body injury doesn't strike me as a smart idea, but then again, maybe it's just me.

I read IP's post as being in "cliche'-speak".  We hear these exact same things from seemingly every player in the league, every pre-season.

There's a blog that covers all of these hilarious offseason quotes:  http://allball.blogs.nba.com/category/musclewatch/

Musclewatch!  All the players who have gained 15-30 pounds of muscle.  Lol.  I like HOllinger's tweet that he ate 15 pounds of mussels.

That's why I like you guys. You get me.

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Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2013, 08:39:04 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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One can still train the good leg and incorporate some core exercises without putting weight on the injured leg. The end result is that the untrained leg will also improve faster.

Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2013, 11:45:53 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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I'd love Rondo to have that mid-range jumper down. I'd also love for him to improve his free throw %.

Rondo's mid-range shooting percentage was top 12 in the league last year.  For him to be a more efficient, he needs to shore things up with the short shots and the threeball.

With the space he gets from defenders for his mid-range shots, he should be top 5. If the other elite PGs received the shots he gets consistently, they'd be top 3 if not #1.

Rondo's an excellent player without it, but to be an elite player that can lead a playoff contender, he has to be able to dominate offensively inside of the 3 point line... If he starts to exploit the space at a 55-70 FG%, they're going to stop giving him that space. When they do, he can get back to attacking the basket and there are few guards quick enough to cut off Rondo's drive without giving him space or going under the pick.

He's still in the developmental stage of his shot, if he develops a smooth release, he's going to be able to get to that elite player status because his all around shot will improve with it. He does look more muscular though, he can use that to finish better at the basket.

Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2013, 12:05:58 AM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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I'd love Rondo to have that mid-range jumper down. I'd also love for him to improve his free throw %.

Rondo's mid-range shooting percentage was top 12 in the league last year.  For him to be a more efficient, he needs to shore things up with the short shots and the threeball.

With the space he gets from defenders for his mid-range shots, he should be top 5. If the other elite PGs received the shots he gets consistently, they'd be top 3 if not #1.

Rondo's an excellent player without it, but to be an elite player that can lead a playoff contender, he has to be able to dominate offensively inside of the 3 point line... If he starts to exploit the space at a 55-70 FG%, they're going to stop giving him that space. When they do, he can get back to attacking the basket and there are few guards quick enough to cut off Rondo's drive without giving him space or going under the pick.

He's still in the developmental stage of his shot, if he develops a smooth release, he's going to be able to get to that elite player status because his all around shot will improve with it. He does look more muscular though, he can use that to finish better at the basket.


I know I see a lot of people say how good someone should be when they are basically wide open but I have heard players who actually play in the NBA who say that the open shots are the ones that are hardest to make. I don't know why but I have heard it from a few players like Ray and Jet. So, I'm not going to take your word that those other PGs would automatically be better as you say.
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Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2013, 12:23:28 AM »

Offline BballTim

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I'd love Rondo to have that mid-range jumper down. I'd also love for him to improve his free throw %.

Rondo's mid-range shooting percentage was top 12 in the league last year.  For him to be a more efficient, he needs to shore things up with the short shots and the threeball.

With the space he gets from defenders for his mid-range shots, he should be top 5. If the other elite PGs received the shots he gets consistently, they'd be top 3 if not #1.

  And yet some of the other elite point guards (start with Deron/Rose/Westbrook/Parker) are regularly under 40% on their mid-range shots. If the hit their open shots as well as you say (and, let's face it, everyone gets a decent amount of open jumpers, even players like PP and Ray and KD) then they must shoot very poorly on the contested jumpers that they take. What are we calling that? Ridiculously poor shot selection?

Rondo's an excellent player without it, but to be an elite player that can lead a playoff contender, he has to be able to dominate offensively inside of the 3 point line...

  Rondo already has been the leader of a playoff contender. This is like talking about what Kevin Love would need to improve on to lead the league in rebounding, or what Rose would need to do if he ever wants to win an MVP award.

Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2013, 12:32:46 AM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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I'd love Rondo to have that mid-range jumper down. I'd also love for him to improve his free throw %.

Rondo's mid-range shooting percentage was top 12 in the league last year.  For him to be a more efficient, he needs to shore things up with the short shots and the threeball.

With the space he gets from defenders for his mid-range shots, he should be top 5. If the other elite PGs received the shots he gets consistently, they'd be top 3 if not #1.

Rondo's an excellent player without it, but to be an elite player that can lead a playoff contender, he has to be able to dominate offensively inside of the 3 point line... If he starts to exploit the space at a 55-70 FG%, they're going to stop giving him that space. When they do, he can get back to attacking the basket and there are few guards quick enough to cut off Rondo's drive without giving him space or going under the pick.

He's still in the developmental stage of his shot, if he develops a smooth release, he's going to be able to get to that elite player status because his all around shot will improve with it. He does look more muscular though, he can use that to finish better at the basket.

I'm getting sick of people saying this. Rondo was top 12 in mid range shooting and if guys aren't covering him, it sounds like the opponent is making a really, really dumb defensive decision. It's either that or Rondo has incredibly good shot selection. Either way there is no way you can paint his mid range shooting percentage in a negative light. There has never been a team in the history of the league who has actually waited for a player to hit 60% of his shots before they started covering him. That's crazy.

Basically. Who cares if they aren't covering him. Good for us. Rondo was hitting them at a higher clip than most so I'll take it.

Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2013, 12:36:49 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I'd love Rondo to have that mid-range jumper down. I'd also love for him to improve his free throw %.

Rondo's mid-range shooting percentage was top 12 in the league last year.  For him to be a more efficient, he needs to shore things up with the short shots and the threeball.

With the space he gets from defenders for his mid-range shots, he should be top 5. If the other elite PGs received the shots he gets consistently, they'd be top 3 if not #1.

  And yet some of the other elite point guards (start with Deron/Rose/Westbrook/Parker) are regularly under 40% on their mid-range shots. If the hit their open shots as well as you say (and, let's face it, everyone gets a decent amount of open jumpers, even players like PP and Ray and KD) then they must shoot very poorly on the contested jumpers that they take. What are we calling that? Ridiculously poor shot selection?


I know we've gone over this before, so I won't go BR the numbers, but I remember finding that Rondo's midrange jumpshot was assisted on a much higher percentage than other elite point guards last year, so he's not creating a midrange shot off the dribble in the same way a Rose, a Chris Paul, or a Tony Parker would.

Which isn't a good or a bad thing, but I think that posters are keying in on Rondo's ability (or lack-thereof) to get his shot off against an opponent in a 1-on-1 situation. A nuance that isn't covered exactly by just looking at his FG%.

Of course, if memory serves, you never really addressed that point the last time I brought it up, so I won't hold my breath for an answer this time. ;D
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Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2013, 09:26:05 AM »

Offline BballTim

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I'd love Rondo to have that mid-range jumper down. I'd also love for him to improve his free throw %.

Rondo's mid-range shooting percentage was top 12 in the league last year.  For him to be a more efficient, he needs to shore things up with the short shots and the threeball.

With the space he gets from defenders for his mid-range shots, he should be top 5. If the other elite PGs received the shots he gets consistently, they'd be top 3 if not #1.

  And yet some of the other elite point guards (start with Deron/Rose/Westbrook/Parker) are regularly under 40% on their mid-range shots. If the hit their open shots as well as you say (and, let's face it, everyone gets a decent amount of open jumpers, even players like PP and Ray and KD) then they must shoot very poorly on the contested jumpers that they take. What are we calling that? Ridiculously poor shot selection?


I know we've gone over this before, so I won't go BR the numbers, but I remember finding that Rondo's midrange jumpshot was assisted on a much higher percentage than other elite point guards last year, so he's not creating a midrange shot off the dribble in the same way a Rose, a Chris Paul, or a Tony Parker would.

Which isn't a good or a bad thing, but I think that posters are keying in on Rondo's ability (or lack-thereof) to get his shot off against an opponent in a 1-on-1 situation. A nuance that isn't covered exactly by just looking at his FG%.

Of course, if memory serves, you never really addressed that point the last time I brought it up, so I won't hold my breath for an answer this time. ;D

  Not sure how I missed this one before. First of all, while it's clearly useful to compare the percentages, you need to have some idea of the actual numbers involved. In an average season Rondo probably has about 2/3 of his mid-range shots unassisted. If Rondo and another elite pg both took 10 mid-range shots, 6-7 of Rondo's would be unassisted and 8-9 of the other pg's shots would be unassisted. Not a huge difference. In fact it averages out to 2 or so more unassisted shots a week for the other pg.

  Secondly, you're claiming without any evidence that the difference in number of unassisted shots must be due to Rondo and other pgs trying to create those shots when it's just as likely (if not more likely) that they simply dribble up the court and take the shot if it's available whereas Rondo has the patience (and sense) to look for a better shot on a given possession. I don't think that not rushing to take low percentage shots is the problem you think it is.

  Lastly, consider what you're saying. Every conversation revolving around Rondo and his jump shot involves many comments about how Rondo isn't closely guarded by defenders and how he's taking wide open shots (and passing up other wide open shots). Now you're coming along and claiming that Rondo doesn't have more unassisted shots because he's simultaneously open and unable to get his shot off against his opponent. It's hard to characterize that claim as anything other than absurd.

Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2013, 12:28:28 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I'd love Rondo to have that mid-range jumper down. I'd also love for him to improve his free throw %.

Rondo's mid-range shooting percentage was top 12 in the league last year.  For him to be a more efficient, he needs to shore things up with the short shots and the threeball.

With the space he gets from defenders for his mid-range shots, he should be top 5. If the other elite PGs received the shots he gets consistently, they'd be top 3 if not #1.

  And yet some of the other elite point guards (start with Deron/Rose/Westbrook/Parker) are regularly under 40% on their mid-range shots. If the hit their open shots as well as you say (and, let's face it, everyone gets a decent amount of open jumpers, even players like PP and Ray and KD) then they must shoot very poorly on the contested jumpers that they take. What are we calling that? Ridiculously poor shot selection?


I know we've gone over this before, so I won't go BR the numbers, but I remember finding that Rondo's midrange jumpshot was assisted on a much higher percentage than other elite point guards last year, so he's not creating a midrange shot off the dribble in the same way a Rose, a Chris Paul, or a Tony Parker would.

Which isn't a good or a bad thing, but I think that posters are keying in on Rondo's ability (or lack-thereof) to get his shot off against an opponent in a 1-on-1 situation. A nuance that isn't covered exactly by just looking at his FG%.

Of course, if memory serves, you never really addressed that point the last time I brought it up, so I won't hold my breath for an answer this time. ;D

Not sure how I missed this one before. First of all, while it's clearly useful to compare the percentages, you need to have some idea of the actual numbers involved. In an average season Rondo probably has about 2/3 of his mid-range shots unassisted. If Rondo and another elite pg both took 10 mid-range shots, 6-7 of Rondo's would be unassisted and 8-9 of the other pg's shots would be unassisted. Not a huge difference. In fact it averages out to 2 or so more unassisted shots a week for the other pg.

If Rondo's making almost one-half of his mid-range jumpers assisted, on designed plays to get him open at the elbow, where he shoots a good percentage, then don't you have to treat those shots differently than a player like Steph Curry taking his player off the dribble or Chris Paul shooting a midrange jumper out of the pick and roll?

 
Quote
Secondly, you're claiming without any evidence that the difference in number of unassisted shots must be due to Rondo and other pgs trying to create those shots when it's just as likely (if not more likely) that they simply dribble up the court and take the shot if it's available whereas Rondo has the patience (and sense) to look for a better shot on a given possession. I don't think that not rushing to take low percentage shots is the problem you think it is.


The bold is another unsubstantiated claim, but that's ok, because I don't have the game tape handy to prove one way or the other.

Quote
  Lastly, consider what you're saying. Every conversation revolving around Rondo and his jump shot involves many comments about how Rondo isn't closely guarded by defenders and how he's taking wide open shots (and passing up other wide open shots). Now you're coming along and claiming that Rondo doesn't have more unassisted shots because he's simultaneously open and unable to get his shot off against his opponent. It's hard to characterize that claim as anything other than absurd.

You're oversimplifying my second statement. Rondo doesn't, in your words, "rush to take inefficient shots." Ok, but I've never seen him be able to get his shot off against his opponent from the midrange or deep--it doesn't seem to be a part of his game. He doesn't take shots off the dribble--he drives to the hoop.

So, when we're talking about Rondo's mid-range efficiency and how it relates to other point guards, the fact that he doesn't pull up for midrange jumpers OTD very often, and instead gets most of his midrange looks on designed plays that give him space and time to shoot, means that he's taking easier shots.

That's not a bad thing,[in fact that's a good thing] but it does add a wrinkle to the idea that he's a better than average midrange shooter for the point guard position. If he's taking easier shots, shouldn't that inflate his FG%? And shouldn't that mean that we have to talk about Rondo's mid-range shooting a little differently than we talk about other elite PG's midrange shooting?


An final aside: I'm not sure why you're going with impossible to quantify conventional wisdom ["let's face it, everyone gets a decent amount of open jumpers, even players like PP and Ray and KD", "it's just as likely (if not more likely) that they simply dribble up the court and take the shot if it's available,"] to prove your point when you're so eager to use numbers most of the time.

Stats coming up in a second--the NBA stats website is kind of a PITA.
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Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2013, 12:51:43 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Good article, seems peripherally related. Not about rondo, but about shooting.

Arguing about midrange shots is interesting...lowest bang-for buck shot in league, not necessarily something to be proud of.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9795591/kirk-goldsberry-introduces-new-way-understand-nba-best-scorers

Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2013, 12:56:08 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Good article, seems peripherally related. Not about rondo, but about shooting.

Arguing about midrange shots is interesting...lowest bang-for buck shot in league, not necessarily something to be proud of.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9795591/kirk-goldsberry-introduces-new-way-understand-nba-best-scorers

Midrange shots have won titles though.

I understand the argument against them, since it's less points for more challenge, etc.  But they are still useful.  All you have to do is actually watch games to realize this.  Dirk, PJ Brown, Wade, Pierce, Jordan.... I've seen a lot of midrange shots decide things.

Not trying to be critical of you, just my argument against too much of that thinking.
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Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2013, 01:06:43 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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We're just trying to figure out if Rondo's a good midrange shooter. It's preseason--have you seen our team? We need distractions.

Anyway, Numbers time!

Rondo was assisted on 23% of his 2pt shots last year. 2 point shots accounted for 89% of his shots attempted, and 81% of his shots made. Mid range shots accounted for 27% of his points.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to get the stats page to break down the midrange into assisted and non assisted. So that's annoying, and leaves us at a bit of a stalemate.


Comparatively;

Chris Paul was assisted on 17% of his shots. 2 point shots were 72% of his attempts. 26.5% of his points came from the midrange.

Russell Westbrook was assisted on 19% of his shots. 88% of his shots were 2pts. 19% of his points came from the mid range.

Tony Parker was assisted on 24.6% of his shots. 93% of his shots were 2 pointers. 24% of his points came from the mid range.

John Wall was also assisted on 24.6% of his shots. 94% shots worth 2. 28% of his points  came from the mid range.

The ghost of Steve Nash was assisted on 20% of his shots. 72% of his shots were 2 pointers. 26% of his points were from the mid range.

Steph Curry was assisted on 25% of his shots. 56% of his shots were from 2 point land, and mid range shots accounted for 22% of his points.

Link is here:

http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&MeasureType=Scoring&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PCT_FGA_2PT&sortOrder=DES&filters=&PlayerPosition=G&StarterBench=Starters&PlayerExperience=Veteran
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Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2013, 01:10:39 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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The thing I like about his shot in the video is that it is less from the side and more closer to his body than it has been in the past. This will help keep his elbow from flaring out and make his mechanics more consistent.
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Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2013, 01:49:43 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Rondo always looked buff...he is sort of like Ray Allen. Rondo takes care of his body very well with workouts and a clean diet.
His arms and shoulders do look look a little bigger in that shot, but maybe he just came from the weight room.

Re: Rondo looks buff... And his shot looks better!?!?
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2013, 04:25:04 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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We're just trying to figure out if Rondo's a good midrange shooter. It's preseason--have you seen our team? We need distractions.

Anyway, Numbers time!

Rondo was assisted on 23% of his 2pt shots last year. 2 point shots accounted for 89% of his shots attempted, and 81% of his shots made. Mid range shots accounted for 27% of his points.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to get the stats page to break down the midrange into assisted and non assisted. So that's annoying, and leaves us at a bit of a stalemate.


Comparatively;

Chris Paul was assisted on 17% of his shots. 2 point shots were 72% of his attempts. 26.5% of his points came from the midrange.

Russell Westbrook was assisted on 19% of his shots. 88% of his shots were 2pts. 19% of his points came from the mid range.

Tony Parker was assisted on 24.6% of his shots. 93% of his shots were 2 pointers. 24% of his points came from the mid range.

John Wall was also assisted on 24.6% of his shots. 94% shots worth 2. 28% of his points  came from the mid range.

The ghost of Steve Nash was assisted on 20% of his shots. 72% of his shots were 2 pointers. 26% of his points were from the mid range.

Steph Curry was assisted on 25% of his shots. 56% of his shots were from 2 point land, and mid range shots accounted for 22% of his points.

Link is here:

http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&MeasureType=Scoring&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PCT_FGA_2PT&sortOrder=DES&filters=&PlayerPosition=G&StarterBench=Starters&PlayerExperience=Veteran

Hoopdata gives stats for that:

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%&type=pg&posi=PG&yr=2013&gp2=0&mins=30

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