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But that's not true. IP already pointed out opponent PER as a stat Hayward as an upper hand in, and opponent PER is only as accurate as other stats you're using. And since you stress that "you need to assess other factors", why do you keep dodging the team factor? Kevin Martin was clearly on a superior defensive team last year, and his defensive numbers were significantly better than his career numbers. Again, what I want to know is if you think Ray Allen is a better defender than Gordon Hayward? It's the exact same situation.
I personally think they are both poor defenders with Martin being ever so slightly better than Hayward.
Quote from: nickagneta on September 05, 2013, 03:06:32 PMI personally think they are both poor defenders with Martin being ever so slightly better than Hayward.Most accurate statement so far.
Quote from: rondoallaturca on September 05, 2013, 02:34:13 PMBut that's not true. IP already pointed out opponent PER as a stat Hayward as an upper hand in, and opponent PER is only as accurate as other stats you're using. And since you stress that "you need to assess other factors", why do you keep dodging the team factor? Kevin Martin was clearly on a superior defensive team last year, and his defensive numbers were significantly better than his career numbers. Again, what I want to know is if you think Ray Allen is a better defender than Gordon Hayward? It's the exact same situation.I have now mentioned this three times: Opponents PER isn't purely a defensive metric, just like PER isn't a purely offensive stat.
Quote from: Roy H. on September 05, 2013, 03:01:41 PMQuote from: rondoallaturca on September 05, 2013, 02:34:13 PMBut that's not true. IP already pointed out opponent PER as a stat Hayward as an upper hand in, and opponent PER is only as accurate as other stats you're using. And since you stress that "you need to assess other factors", why do you keep dodging the team factor? Kevin Martin was clearly on a superior defensive team last year, and his defensive numbers were significantly better than his career numbers. Again, what I want to know is if you think Ray Allen is a better defender than Gordon Hayward? It's the exact same situation.I have now mentioned this three times: Opponents PER isn't purely a defensive metric, just like PER isn't a purely offensive stat.I will now ask this a third time: Do you think Ray Allen is a better defender than Gordon Hayward?
Question for the rest of the teams in the conference: If you have a dead horse, and you know its dead, but you continue to beat it afterwards,does that in fact make it more dead? Well, let's go to the synergy numbers.
So annoyed; just went and found a bunch if sources lauding Hayward's defense. Then wife called and asked me to look something up and I absentmindedly just clicked away from it.Gordon Hayward is a good defender, The conclusions Roy is drawing from the statistics are in this case, wrong.
It's an irrelevant question for the Atlantic press conference, but what the heck, I'll answer it. The metrics are slightly mixed. Ray has a better DRtg and more defensive win shares, but gives up slightly more points per possession than Hayward. Ray holds his man to a lower eFG% than Hayward.So, the numbers suggest that Ray is at least as good as, and perhaps better than, Hayward at defense. Neither player is a particularly good defender at this stage. However, both have their moments where they can play very good defense.
Quote from: IndeedProceed on September 05, 2013, 05:16:26 PMSo annoyed; just went and found a bunch if sources lauding Hayward's defense. Then wife called and asked me to look something up and I absentmindedly just clicked away from it.Gordon Hayward is a good defender, The conclusions Roy is drawing from the statistics are in this case, wrong.So, what you're saying is; conclusions drawn from stats are only accurate when they benefit you.