2013 CB Draft: Atlantic Division Press Conferences

[rondoallaturca]

Woah there. The thing I enjoy the most about this place is that everyone can debate light-heartedly without taking everything like a personal criticism. If you think " ...MARTIN = HAYWARD?! REALLY?!" equates to mocking you, then boy, there's a LOT of rule breaking going on here. Anyway, to get to your other points:

With Rubio and Irving, it's not controversial that Rubio is better. However, the difference is not that big which gets back to my latter point that one-on-one comparisons are very flawed. The Lopez/Valanciunas comparison will definitely boil down to personal perspective, because even if we isolate the sample size to present production, I think Valanciunas could post similar defensive numbers with Lopez because of the aforementioned belief that Val utilizes his defensive potential better than Lopez does. Besides the point, I'm not disagreeing with you that NY has the better defensive staring lineup, but the difference isn't as big as you make it seem. Furthermore, when factoring in the overall roster, I'd give the defensive advantage to Boston.

[Roy H.]

Woah there. The thing I enjoy the most about this place is that everyone can debate light-heartedly without taking everything like a personal criticism. If you think " ...MARTIN = HAYWARD?! REALLY?!" equates to mocking you, then boy, there's a LOT of rule breaking going on here. Anyway, to get to your other points:

With Rubio and Irving, it's not controversial that Rubio is better. However, the difference is not that big which gets back to my latter point that one-on-one comparisons are very flawed. The Lopez/Valanciunas comparison will definitely boil down to personal perspective, because even if we isolate the sample size to present production, I think Valanciunas could post similar defensive numbers with Lopez because of the aforementioned belief that Val utilizes his defensive potential better than Lopez does. Besides the point, I'm not disagreeing with you that NY has the better defensive staring lineup, but the difference isn't as big as you make it seem. Furthermore, when factoring in the overall roster, I'd give the defensive advantage to Boston.

So you agreeing with me prompted you to post this:

Rubio > Irving
Martin = Hayward
Green > Gallinari
Sanders > Gasol
Lopez > Jonas V.

[rondoallaturca]

Martin played 28 minutes per game, so he was matched up against plenty of starters.  It's not like Hayward didn't play against bench players; he only made 27 starts.

Point taken, but that still does nothing to the fact that OKC was the more dominant defensive team last year. I would be very interested in seeing Martin's Synergy stats on the Rockets and the Kings, because his Synergy stats from last year definitely seem fluky. For what it's worth, Martin's DRtg makes a significant jump in the last two seasons compared to his career.

[rondoallaturca]

So you agreeing with me prompted you to post this:

Well considering there were multiple points that we have debated already, the answer is obviously yes. Your post suggested that New York was clearly superior defensively and I feel differently. To avoid looking like an idiot who just responds with empty posts that simply contain gifs, I followed up the post with actual reasoning.

[indeedproceed]

Also, can we for a second just look at how inconsistent it is to 'assume' missed games for Kyrie Irving, but to treat Ricky Rubio without the same conditions?

Irving has two 50+ game seasons, with 51 and 59, while Rubio has played 41 and 57 games.

Ricky Rubio: Bigger injury risk than Kyrie Irving.

[rondoallaturca]

Also, can we for a second just look at how inconsistent it is to 'assume' missed games for Kyrie Irving, but to treat Ricky Rubio without the same conditions?

Irving has two 50+ game seasons, with 51 and 59, while Rubio has played 41 and 57 games.

Ricky Rubio: Bigger injury risk than Kyrie Irving.

I think the big difference is that Kyrie's injury history extends all the way back to college. On top of that, if I'm not mistakened, Rubio's main reason of absence was his ACL injury. Kyrie has been bothered with a multitude of different injuries.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9261768/nba-trade-value-part-3

So far he's torn ligaments in his big toe; sprained one shoulder; broken his hand; suffered a concussion; broken a finger on his non-shooting hand; broken a bone in his jaw; hyperextended a knee; and sprained the other shoulder.

[Who]

Also, can we for a second just look at how inconsistent it is to 'assume' missed games for Kyrie Irving, but to treat Ricky Rubio without the same conditions?

Irving has two 50+ game seasons, with 51 and 59, while Rubio has played 41 and 57 games.

Ricky Rubio: Bigger injury risk than Kyrie Irving.

Wasn't it one injury for Rubio? Missed the end of rookie season and start of second season due to the same injury (ACL). Now he is recovered.

Plus, with Kyrie Irving, he missed almost all of his one season in college with Duke due to another injury as well. He just seems like a guy that gets hurt a lot. Three years in a row. I think he needs a healthy year before he gets the benefit of the doubt again.

Anyway, long term injuries are very damaging to a team but a few missed games shouldn't change too much.

[indeedproceed]

Also, can we for a second just look at how inconsistent it is to 'assume' missed games for Kyrie Irving, but to treat Ricky Rubio without the same conditions?

Irving has two 50+ game seasons, with 51 and 59, while Rubio has played 41 and 57 games.

Ricky Rubio: Bigger injury risk than Kyrie Irving.

I think the big difference is that Kyrie's injury history extends all the way back to college. On top of that, if I'm not mistakened, Rubio's main reason of absence was his ACL injury. Kyrie has been bothered with a multitude of different injuries.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9261768/nba-trade-value-part-3

So far he's torn ligaments in his big toe; sprained one shoulder; broken his hand; suffered a concussion; broken a finger on his non-shooting hand; broken a bone in his jaw; hyperextended a knee; and sprained the other shoulder.

I actually brought this up earlier as well. Rubio's clearly a bigger risk, while Kyrie Irving is merely unlucky.

Im kidding of course, they're both under 25, and should be due a healthy season one of these times.

[nickagneta]

ENOUGH!!!


Let's just lose the bickering and tone it down.

[indeedproceed]

Honest question, but where was the bickering? I thought we were all just talking. Lil good natured competitive banter. Is there an antagonistic tone in the thread?

[nickagneta]

Honest question, but where was the bickering? I thought we were all just talking. Lil good natured competitive banter. Is there an antagonistic tone in the thread?

Between Roy and rondoallaturca, IMHO, yes. The gif and other things are just a little to close to breaking the very draft behavior rules you wrote.

[rondoallaturca]

Honest question, but where was the bickering? I thought we were all just talking. Lil good natured competitive banter. Is there an antagonistic tone in the thread?

Between Roy and rondoallaturca, IMHO, yes. The gif and other things are just a little to close to breaking the very draft behavior rules you wrote.

Not to continue beating a dead horse, but I couldn't disagree more. Roy overreacted, I explained myself, and everyone carried on. You can't honestly say that gifs/memes like those haven't made an appearance here before. I have seen things a lot worse that weren't met with nearly as much hoopla. Everyone here has dished out playful jabs, and received their fair share as well.

[Fafnir]

Once again I don't really trust synergy stats without the team context. Martin had a top defensive squad backing him, Hayward had a bottom 10 team for backup.

Given how close their overall defensive numbers are and my own eye test I'd say Hayward is better defensively.

Having a 107 DRTG with a top 4 NBA defense overall is really bad. Really, really bad.

[indeedproceed]

Honest question, but where was the bickering? I thought we were all just talking. Lil good natured competitive banter. Is there an antagonistic tone in the thread?

Between Roy and rondoallaturca, IMHO, yes. The gif and other things are just a little to close to breaking the very draft behavior rules you wrote.

So what you're saying is that it's NOT related to the obvious double standard regarding Kyrie Irving's games expected played next season and Ricky Rubio's

[Roy H.]

Honest question, but where was the bickering? I thought we were all just talking. Lil good natured competitive banter. Is there an antagonistic tone in the thread?

Between Roy and rondoallaturca, IMHO, yes. The gif and other things are just a little to close to breaking the very draft behavior rules you wrote.

Not to continue beating a dead horse, but I couldn't disagree more. Roy overreacted, I explained myself, and everyone carried on. You can't honestly say that gifs/memes like those haven't made an appearance here before. I have seen things a lot worse that weren't met with nearly as much hoopla. Everyone here has dished out playful jabs, and received their fair share as well.

Do not mock others, including by posting mocking images or smileys / emoticons.

Please watch your tone ... Sarcasm can be misinterpreted, so be very careful when using it in a post.

Respond to arguments with arguments, not mocking .gifs.