2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread : VOTING ENDS 8:00PM EST TONIGHT

[Rondo2287]

That wouldnt surprise me at all.

It wouldn't surprise me, but I'm not willing to go so far as to say it's probable.  Prior to last season, Nash has missed an average of 3.7 games per year over the last eleven seasons.  But now, because he had a couple of minor injuries last year, he's "injury prone".

Does that make any sense at all to you?

Hmm, true, I guess I should rescind my comment, Gordon missing a 3rd of the games I would say is likely, Nash playing with minutes limitations for most of the season I would say is also likely.

[nickagneta]

Don't get me wrong, I find Nash to be one of the three best floor generals and passers in the game and when he will be on the floor(my projection is probably about 60-65 regular season games and all the playoffs because he is a tough dude) the offense in Dallas will be excellent.

But I don't think his defense will improve and its been poor for years. And I don't like the fact that Jefferson will be the guy holding down the last line of defense from oncoming PGs getting into the paint past Nash.

I still think Dallas a good team. Just not the West's best.

The defensive criticism, I totally understand.  I don't see how it makes sense to project that Nash misses a quarter of the season, though, when that's happened once in more than a decade.

If you do that, I think you need to make similarly negative projections about Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Emeka Okafor, Nene, Wade, etc., etc.  Pretty much the only star player you can guarantee will stay healthy is Lebron.

Roy he isn't 29-36 anymore. He will be 40. His health from a decade ago isn't relevant. His health from 5 years ago isn't relevant. Once you hit the age he is at, you are in rare air when it comes to expectations of being able to play, never mind being able to play at a high level and not miss games. I don't think it unreasonable at all for people to assume he is going to miss a bunch of games especially after doing so last year at the age of 38-39 and having to be receiving epidural shots for a portion of this summer.

[Roy H.]

Don't get me wrong, I find Nash to be one of the three best floor generals and passers in the game and when he will be on the floor(my projection is probably about 60-65 regular season games and all the playoffs because he is a tough dude) the offense in Dallas will be excellent.

But I don't think his defense will improve and its been poor for years. And I don't like the fact that Jefferson will be the guy holding down the last line of defense from oncoming PGs getting into the paint past Nash.

I still think Dallas a good team. Just not the West's best.

The defensive criticism, I totally understand.  I don't see how it makes sense to project that Nash misses a quarter of the season, though, when that's happened once in more than a decade.

If you do that, I think you need to make similarly negative projections about Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Emeka Okafor, Nene, Wade, etc., etc.  Pretty much the only star player you can guarantee will stay healthy is Lebron.

Roy he isn't 29-36 anymore. He will be 40. His health from a decade ago isn't relevant. His health from 5 years ago isn't relevant. Once you hit the age he is at, you are in rare air when it comes to expectations of being able to play, never mind being able to play at a high level and not miss games. I don't think it unreasonable at all for people to assume he is going to miss a bunch of games especially after doing so last year at the age of 38-39 and having to be receiving epidural shots for a portion of this summer.

Like I said, if you do it with Nash (who has a remarkably clean health history), I think you need to do it with everyone.  Declining to do so makes an arbitrary exercise even more so.

[Rondo2287]

Don't get me wrong, I find Nash to be one of the three best floor generals and passers in the game and when he will be on the floor(my projection is probably about 60-65 regular season games and all the playoffs because he is a tough dude) the offense in Dallas will be excellent.

But I don't think his defense will improve and its been poor for years. And I don't like the fact that Jefferson will be the guy holding down the last line of defense from oncoming PGs getting into the paint past Nash.

I still think Dallas a good team. Just not the West's best.

The defensive criticism, I totally understand.  I don't see how it makes sense to project that Nash misses a quarter of the season, though, when that's happened once in more than a decade.

If you do that, I think you need to make similarly negative projections about Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Emeka Okafor, Nene, Wade, etc., etc.  Pretty much the only star player you can guarantee will stay healthy is Lebron.

Roy he isn't 29-36 anymore. He will be 40. His health from a decade ago isn't relevant. His health from 5 years ago isn't relevant. Once you hit the age he is at, you are in rare air when it comes to expectations of being able to play, never mind being able to play at a high level and not miss games. I don't think it unreasonable at all for people to assume he is going to miss a bunch of games especially after doing so last year at the age of 38-39 and having to be receiving epidural shots for a portion of this summer.

Like I said, if you do it with Nash (who has a remarkably clean health history), I think you need to do it with everyone.  Declining to do so makes an arbitrary exercise even more so.

I think if you do it with nash you have to do it with other 40 year old pg's.  But the reasoning behind the hesitance on nash doesnt apply to a player like Chris Paul.  I think its his age as much as his health that is causing the issue.

[Roy H.]

I think if you do it with nash you have to do it with other 40 year old pg's.  But the reasoning behind the hesitance on nash doesnt apply to a player like Chris Paul.  I think its his age as much as his health that is causing the issue.

Well, you better watch out then, because I'm projecting your 38 year old SG to miss 74 games. 

[fairweatherfan]

Turning away from the Fake NBA, I am really curious to see how the real Lakers start the season with Nash and Pau front and center.  They probably don't have enough around them to do too much but I could see some real fun chemistry there.

[Rondo2287]

Delete

[Gainesville Celtic]

In case you missed it MEMPHIS finally posted our Press Conference in the Southwest Divison thread.

Come see the best PG in the NBA lead the Grizzzzzzz to victory!

[rondoallaturca]

Say, and as the miles pile up, Nowitzki goes down with an injury, how would they do in your opinion?
Completely hypothetical btw

Where would Minnesota be if Lebron goes down with an injury? Where would Orlando be if Kobe goes down with an injury? It's sort of obvious if one of your best players goes down with injury, your team's going to move back quite a bit. The only difference is the likelihood of it, and considering Dirk's style of play, his injury history, and the fact that this Lakers team won't be needing him to play significant minutes in the regular season, I don't see why anyone would believe so.

Also, I am surprised that the Lakers have been ranked a non-playoff team. Obviously I'm not going to brag and say we're clear cut #1's (this league is way too talented and competitive for any team to make that case), but we're at the very least a lock to be a playoff team. Even if you question Calderon's injury history and Dirk's age, we have the depth to get through the regular season by far. We have a versatile defense as well as easily the most efficient offense in the league. I don't recall the last time a team with both a top 10 offense and defense misses the playoffs. And while none of our players are spectacular individual talents outside of Dirk, each player on our roster is dynamic and can contribute in many facets of the game; the only exception is LRMAM, but he's one of the best defensive specialists in the league. Furthermore, they all complement each other greatly and I can't count many teams who have assembled a better fitting group than the Lakers. Again, since this post might easily come off as bragging, I want to clarify that I totally understand everyone has differing opinions, and I'm not expecting the Lakers to be your #1 seed. But I think we are one of the few teams in the West that can be called a lock for the playoffs.

[Roy H.]

I don't recall the last time a team with both a top 10 offense and defense misses the playoffs.

I definitely don't think you have a top-10 defense.  Not with Calderon and Dirk as starters, and good-but-not-elite defenders in Pondexter and Matthews.

I liked your defense a bit better when LMAM was playing, because at least he could viably defend PFs.  Pondexter can't do that, and I don't think Matthews can defend most PGs.  That means your weak defenders can't be hidden, meaning they'll need constant help.  That's going to open up holes for other teams to attack.

[rondoallaturca]

For whatever it's worth, a 38 year old Steve Nash was an all-star just a season ago, finishing first in the league in assists and assist percentage (and second in assists per game), and 3rd in eFG%.  A very poor Phoenix team finished in the top-10 in offensive efficiency, due almost exclusively to Nash.

Steve Nash had a tough year partly due to injuries, and partly because he plays with the biggest non-PG ball hog in the NBA.  Despite that, he was still top-5 in 3PT%, had an eFG% of .557, and had a TS% of .605 (which is his career average).

I really think the move to LA has made some folks forget just how good of an offensive player Steve Nash still is, and just how well he runs offenses that aren't centered exclusively around Kobe Chucker Bryant.

I'm with Roy on this one. The Lakers were incredibly dysfunctional last season and it's unfair to value Nash based off that train wreck team. Nash might be old but his game ages as well as anybody, similar to Dirk (who doesn't love some shameless advertising?). That being said, Nash definitely can't play the 31-34 minutes he had been getting his last few years in Phoenix - not for a whole regular season, at least. Dallas has Brandon Knight as the PG next in line, and well... it's Brandon Knight.

I do think it's fair to dock Dallas for their PG situation, but not because of the reasons being said so far.

[rondoallaturca]

I definitely don't think you have a top-10 defense.  Not with Calderon and Dirk as starters, and good-but-not-elite defenders in Pondexter and Matthews.

I liked your defense a bit better when LMAM was playing, because at least he could viably defend PFs.  Pondexter can't do that, and I don't think Matthews can defend most PGs.  That means your weak defenders can't be hidden, meaning they'll need constant help.  That's going to open up holes for other teams to attack.

Maybe you can explain to me why you see Dirk as a negative on defense, because I'm certainly not seeing it. Furthermore, like I've stated numerous times, the SF will be sort of a rotating door that's based off matchups. If we face a Lebron or Durant where matchups require LRMAM, he'll be inserted into the lineup. Also, while Pondexter might not have the track record to be called anything better than a good defender, I'd definitely call Matthews an elite defender.

For me, the only weak link for our defense is PG with Calderon and Barea, but like I've pointed out, the same can be said for many other teams. I also shouldn't go without saying that Calderon's "bad" defense has been blown out to ridiculous proportions here - yes he's bad, but it's as if some people think he's playing defense on a wheelchair. But anyway, beyond the PG, we have the most versatile defense in the league that definitely should be top 10 - can you name 10 teams that will have better defense than us?

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I definitely don't think you have a top-10 defense.  Not with Calderon and Dirk as starters, and good-but-not-elite defenders in Pondexter and Matthews.

I liked your defense a bit better when LMAM was playing, because at least he could viably defend PFs.  Pondexter can't do that, and I don't think Matthews can defend most PGs.  That means your weak defenders can't be hidden, meaning they'll need constant help.  That's going to open up holes for other teams to attack.

Maybe you can explain to me why you see Dirk as a negative on defense, because I'm certainly not seeing it. Furthermore, like I've stated numerous times, the SF will be sort of a rotating door that's based off matchups. If we face a Lebron or Durant where matchups require LRMAM, he'll be inserted into the lineup. Also, while Pondexter might not have the track record to be called anything better than a good defender, I'd definitely call Matthews an elite defender.

For me, the only weak link for our defense is PG with Calderon and Barea, but like I've pointed out, the same can be said for many other teams. I also shouldn't go without saying that Calderon's "bad" defense has been blown out to ridiculous proportions here - yes he's bad, but it's as if some people think he's playing defense on a wheelchair. But anyway, beyond the PG, we have the most versatile defense in the league that definitely should be top 10 - can you name 10 teams that will have better defense than us?

I can name one. Denver Nuggets.

(don't hate the player, hate the game.  )

[KGs Knee]

I try to avoid often injured players like the plague in these games because i find it's not worth the effort/frustration to defend.  As such I am probably more critical of players with injury histories than others.  But I think it would be very feasible for Dallas to not have Nash or Gordon starting for a third of the season this coming year.  That wouldnt surprise me at all.

I agree with all of this.  Injuries are a huge knock, IMHO.

[rondoallaturca]

I can name one. Denver Nuggets.

(don't hate the player, hate the game.  )

Well, I do like your team and I have it making the playoffs, but defense isn't a driving reason. Your best two defenders play the same position (and are legitimate injury risks), and Webster/Lee are the only two other guys who are a clear plus on that end of the court. Lowry/Chandler are way too inconsistent, Lillard is still learning the ropes, and Monroe is meh - he uses his body well but doesn't have much else going for him defensively. The potential to put Lee/Webster/Varejao/Bogut out on the court on the same time as a defensive-minded unit is a nice commodity to have though. I think you have a competent defensive team, but I wouldn't say it's better than the Lakers