Would Rondo get the respect he more than deserve after all of these?

[paidthecost2betheboss]

it's easy to put words in KG's mouth in the offseason because he pretty much isn't available in the offseason. What's wrong with him going off the grid? He does that every year.

Besides, wasn't the first Clipper deal reported to be Doc+KG+Pierce for DJ+Butler+picks(+filler i might have forgotten)? And did that deal even get to the point where it was known that KG would waive his no-trade clause? Because as far as how the brooklyn trade went down, the deal was first agreed upon by both teams before they went to KG to request to waive his NTC. Anyway, regardless of whether Doc bailed on the C's or not is irrelevant.

my point is, KG didn't go to DA or the media and demanded a trade. He simply accepted the trade that DA set up. Pretty sure that if he wasn't going with Pierce (whom he said was a big reason why he signed the contract in the first place), then he wouldn't have waived his clause. 

Compare that with what happened last year with Ray Allen. That guy blatantly bailed on us. Him leaving hurt the team. There's a reason why many fans hate that he left. Meanwhile, i don't see anyone on this board upset about KG waiving his NTC or calling him a traitor and whatnot.

What does Ray Allen have to do with this?

Who called K.G. a traitor?

Who is putting words in folks mouths?

Why are you telling me what everybody else on this board is NOT doing. Who cares.

[LilRip]

it's easy to put words in KG's mouth in the offseason because he pretty much isn't available in the offseason. What's wrong with him going off the grid? He does that every year.

Besides, wasn't the first Clipper deal reported to be Doc+KG+Pierce for DJ+Butler+picks(+filler i might have forgotten)? And did that deal even get to the point where it was known that KG would waive his no-trade clause? Because as far as how the brooklyn trade went down, the deal was first agreed upon by both teams before they went to KG to request to waive his NTC. Anyway, regardless of whether Doc bailed on the C's or not is irrelevant.

my point is, KG didn't go to DA or the media and demanded a trade. He simply accepted the trade that DA set up. Pretty sure that if he wasn't going with Pierce (whom he said was a big reason why he signed the contract in the first place), then he wouldn't have waived his clause. 

Compare that with what happened last year with Ray Allen. That guy blatantly bailed on us. Him leaving hurt the team. There's a reason why many fans hate that he left. Meanwhile, i don't see anyone on this board upset about KG waiving his NTC or calling him a traitor and whatnot.

What does Ray Allen have to do with this?

Who called K.G. a traitor?

Who is putting words in folks mouths?

Why are you telling me what everybody else on this board is NOT doing. Who cares.

umm...because the original point i was making was "Pierce and KG didn't bail" while your original point was "yes they bailed on us". 

so to further prove that they didn't bail on us, i compared and contrasted using an example of a player who bailed (see: Ray Allen) and players who didn't bail (see: KG and PP).

[Sketch5]

It took PP an hour and a half to talk KG into waiving the clause. Of course it didn't take much on DA's part because PP did all the work.

I think both would have stayed if given the option. But also new it wasn't going anywheres. Kidd approached PP about it, and then PP approached KG to make one last run.

I don't think any one "bailed". Its just DA needed to rebuild the team soon. And KG and PP needed to win soon. And neither were going to happen if they stayed in Boston.

I read your opinions so please read the quotes of the players involved. The part I bolded in your comment makes little sense. Makes none actually.

Danny and Wyc have stated clearly that Doc initiated and pursued his departure. They are absolutely clear about that. Paul said clearly on camera to reporters that he was not interested in going through another rebuild. This goes back to at least February. Nobody is on Paul because he ended up doing what he said he wanted to and that's play for a ring. When Danny said he expected Doc and K.G. to be back on May 23 he meant it. Wyc said it in the link in the post you quoted. Danny was not into your rebuilding mode until after this fiasco. You need to put your opinion within context of the known facts.

Danny and Wyc expected Doc and K.G. to be back and it's on record.

Doc...man..read what he said and when he said it and compare it to Danny and Wyc.

K.G., Was going to waive his N.T. to follow Doc
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/6/15/4433754/kevin-garnett-doc-rivers-clippers-celtics-trade-rumors
until Stern intervened. K.G. has never stated otherwise.


Paul has stated all along what he wanted and God bless him for that. I hope he gets a ring and is a G.M. someday like he said he'd like to be.

How dose that not make sense? DA was only originally going to hold on to these guys for 3 years, and it went 5. He needed to start the rebuild soon because the last two seasons were mediocre and he needed to get some thing for KG and PP now, instead of letting them retire and then getting nothing for them. So yeah he needed to start the rebuild sonner than later.

I also NEVER said this was his plan all along. Once the Doc thing happened he went into rebuild mode. I heard from PP's mouth on the radio about him having to talk KG into it. I'm sorry I don't have quotes that could have been skewed by a reporter. But this came from his actual mouth, his voice, his words that he had to talk KG into leaving Boston. So to say KG bailed is off base. 

[paidthecost2betheboss]

I think both would have stayed if given the option. But also new it wasn't going anywheres. Kidd approached PP about it, and then PP approached KG to make one last run.

I don't think any one "bailed". Its just DA needed to rebuild the team soon. And KG and PP needed to win soon. And neither were going to happen if they stayed in Boston.

How dose that not make sense? DA was only originally going to hold on to these guys for 3 years, and it went 5. He needed to start the rebuild soon because the last two seasons were mediocre and he needed to get some thing for KG and PP now, instead of letting them retire and then getting nothing for them. So yeah he needed to start the rebuild sonner than later.

I also NEVER said this was his plan all along. Once the Doc thing happened he went into rebuild mode. I heard from PP's mouth on the radio about him having to talk KG into it. I'm sorry I don't have quotes that could have been skewed by a reporter. But this came from his actual mouth, his voice, his words that he had to talk KG into leaving Boston. So to say KG bailed is off base.

No..what you said was:

It took PP an hour and a half to talk KG into waiving the clause. Of course it didn't take much on DA's part because PP did all the work.

I think both would have stayed if given the option. But also new it wasn't going anywheres. Kidd approached PP about it, and then PP approached KG to make one last run.

I don't think any one "bailed". Its just DA needed to rebuild the team soon. And KG and PP needed to win soon. And neither were going to happen if they stayed in Boston.

_____________________________________________

Forget everything else since this can go off rails fast. Throwing Ray Allen in here..I guy I detest...makes no sense so lets just stay on one specific point. Just one.

You said both would have stayed if given the option?

Paul was clearly not going to do that by his own words. How do you possibly make that assumption when everything out of Paul's mouth states otherwise and Danny never committed on or to Paul's return.

So Paul goes on record to the media and management going back to February that he's not in for a rebuild. Hence my love eternal for the guy. Danny could try and envision the team sans Paul and try to facilitate that and make the Celts better. That was his challenge.

K.G. never stated he wasn't interested in a rebuild he merely commented that he wasn't commenting.
Danny and Wyc go on the record saying they wan't K.G. back  till the last days of May.

Paul was a part of Wyc and Danny's plan's because he was not interested in The rebuild and they had to act quickly to figure out how to deal with him in a way that would benefit both parties but K.G. and Doc were not as they were expected to honor their contracts.

How on earth do you say that
"both would have stayed if given the option"
Paul was absolutely not interested and said so.
K.G. was going to waive his N.T. to join Doc which was a scenario the management learned from ESPN.

What option do you speak of? Danny keeping Paul who said he clearly did not want to be here?

I'm done. Enjoy.

[BballTim]

Underpaid, prime of his career, and he's willingly spending it on team that's tanking.  Everybody bailed and he's still here.  Diligent.  Patient. And still loyal (like that's ever a question with Rondo).  We're rebuilding and he's not asking for a trade or making a fuss.  Looking back to how the majority of the Celtics fans treated him this past season in the light of what's happening now, it makes me want to puke.  This guy deserves better, especially from the Celtic's fans

RR probably had a great talk with his agent about all of this.  Who wouldn't, right?

It probably ended up like this:

RR, you're injured, and have never played with anything but HOF talent, not just star talent, but HOFers.  This year, you're coming off of injury with little expectations, and the next year is a contract year.  Relax, do your job, and let me do mine.

  So you're saying that you watched the Knicks series and told yourself we had multiple players who were displaying "HOF talent"? Did you even think that when Rondo was playing with one arm during the 2011 playoffs and the Heat were beating them? Rondo plays with star talent, but he hasn't played with HOF talent for quite a while.

[dark_lord]

when rondo comes back 100% i anticipate he will play outstanding.  however, i have always found him to be motivated-driven.  if he has a cause, his game flourishes (playoffs, going against other elite point guards, etc).  with all the changes, questions, and even doubts, i anticipate him playing great.

with that said, i want to keep him while (if) this occurs.  it will increase his stock.  then i would trade him.  rondo is fun to watch, but i dont think he is *that* guy to build around.  if rondo is ur first option, i never see us competing for a title.  if he is our second option, i dont think we will be competing for a title but we could be a top 4 seed in the east.  if rondo is your third option, then we are in business! 

[PhoSita]

Underpaid, prime of his career, and he's willingly spending it on team that's tanking.  Everybody bailed and he's still here.  Diligent.  Patient. And still loyal (like that's ever a question with Rondo).  We're rebuilding and he's not asking for a trade or making a fuss.  Looking back to how the majority of the Celtics fans treated him this past season in the light of what's happening now, it makes me want to puke.  This guy deserves better, especially from the Celtic's fans

RR probably had a great talk with his agent about all of this.  Who wouldn't, right?

It probably ended up like this:

RR, you're injured, and have never played with anything but HOF talent, not just star talent, but HOFers.  This year, you're coming off of injury with little expectations, and the next year is a contract year.  Relax, do your job, and let me do mine.

  So you're saying that you watched the Knicks series and told yourself we had multiple players who were displaying "HOF talent"? Did you even think that when Rondo was playing with one arm during the 2011 playoffs and the Heat were beating them? Rondo plays with star talent, but he hasn't played with HOF talent for quite a while.

I think you're right, but I also think that More Banners is probably not far off the mark as far as the general perception of Rondo around the league.

Fair or not, I do think there's skepticism, or at least uncertainty, about how Rondo will perform without guys like Pierce and KG playing next to him.

[dark_lord]

I think you're right, but I also think that More Banners is probably not far off the mark as far as the general perception of Rondo around the league.

Fair or not, I do think there's skepticism, or at least uncertainty, about how Rondo will perform without guys like Pierce and KG playing next to him.

the thing with rondo.....he is underrated around the league and he is overrated in boston.

[More Banners]

Underpaid, prime of his career, and he's willingly spending it on team that's tanking.  Everybody bailed and he's still here.  Diligent.  Patient. And still loyal (like that's ever a question with Rondo).  We're rebuilding and he's not asking for a trade or making a fuss.  Looking back to how the majority of the Celtics fans treated him this past season in the light of what's happening now, it makes me want to puke.  This guy deserves better, especially from the Celtic's fans

RR probably had a great talk with his agent about all of this.  Who wouldn't, right?

It probably ended up like this:

RR, you're injured, and have never played with anything but HOF talent, not just star talent, but HOFers.  This year, you're coming off of injury with little expectations, and the next year is a contract year.  Relax, do your job, and let me do mine.

  So you're saying that you watched the Knicks series and told yourself we had multiple players who were displaying "HOF talent"? Did you even think that when Rondo was playing with one arm during the 2011 playoffs and the Heat were beating them? Rondo plays with star talent, but he hasn't played with HOF talent for quite a while.

I think you're right, but I also think that More Banners is probably not far off the mark as far as the general perception of Rondo around the league.

Fair or not, I do think there's skepticism, or at least uncertainty, about how Rondo will perform without guys like Pierce and KG playing next to him.

I think we're all a bit uncertain as well about how he'll do as the leader of a young team, considering in the past he has been suspended for interactions with refs and stuff.

And I think we're all a bit uncertain as well about how he would perform if surrounded by subpar talent, and consequently double-teamed.  We've never seen that in his career.  What would happen?  Especially now that he may perhaps have lost half-step, or when he does?

So I think he needs to chill and prove his value, and this is the perfect opportunity for him to do so, no small part because the team really isn't too bad, and seems to be made to complement his talents (e.g., Green, Sully, and Olynyk, plus Bass and Lee, are all shooters).

[PhoSita]

I think you're right, but I also think that More Banners is probably not far off the mark as far as the general perception of Rondo around the league.

Fair or not, I do think there's skepticism, or at least uncertainty, about how Rondo will perform without guys like Pierce and KG playing next to him.

the thing with rondo.....he is underrated around the league and he is overrated in boston.

i think that's probably an accurate statement

[BballTim]

Underpaid, prime of his career, and he's willingly spending it on team that's tanking.  Everybody bailed and he's still here.  Diligent.  Patient. And still loyal (like that's ever a question with Rondo).  We're rebuilding and he's not asking for a trade or making a fuss.  Looking back to how the majority of the Celtics fans treated him this past season in the light of what's happening now, it makes me want to puke.  This guy deserves better, especially from the Celtic's fans

RR probably had a great talk with his agent about all of this.  Who wouldn't, right?

It probably ended up like this:

RR, you're injured, and have never played with anything but HOF talent, not just star talent, but HOFers.  This year, you're coming off of injury with little expectations, and the next year is a contract year.  Relax, do your job, and let me do mine.

  So you're saying that you watched the Knicks series and told yourself we had multiple players who were displaying "HOF talent"? Did you even think that when Rondo was playing with one arm during the 2011 playoffs and the Heat were beating them? Rondo plays with star talent, but he hasn't played with HOF talent for quite a while.

I think you're right, but I also think that More Banners is probably not far off the mark as far as the general perception of Rondo around the league.

  It wouldn't surprise me, the less closely you follow the team the more likely you are to think Rondo's never played without multiple HOF-level talents.

[Celtics18]

when rondo comes back 100% i anticipate he will play outstanding.  however, i have always found him to be motivated-driven.  if he has a cause, his game flourishes (playoffs, going against other elite point guards, etc).  with all the changes, questions, and even doubts, i anticipate him playing great.

with that said, i want to keep him while (if) this occurs.  it will increase his stock.  then i would trade him.  rondo is fun to watch, but i dont think he is *that* guy to build around.  if rondo is ur first option, i never see us competing for a title.  if he is our second option, i dont think we will be competing for a title but we could be a top 4 seed in the east.  if rondo is your third option, then we are in business!

Honestly, other than Lebron James and Kevin Durant, I don't think there are any players in the league under 30 who I would call "build a team around" type players.  To me, Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Paul, James Harden, Derrick Rose, Blake Griffin, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love, and whoever else you want to add to the list are all players who have question marks about whether or not they can be "that guy." 

When healthy, Rondo is somewhere in that group.  Of course, there is no guarantee that we can build a championship contender around him, but there's no guarantee that we will be able to around anyone else either.

I feel like there's an odd dichotomy going on.  Most fans seem to think that if we keep Rondo that we have to be a contender within five years or the team--and Rondo specifically--will be seen as a failure.  On the other hand, if we get rid of him to rebuild, everyone seems fine with the prospect of the "rebuild" taking however long it takes.

I want to keep Rondo, and, of course, I want to see the team be a contender again while he is still a Celtic.  And, of course, we will need to add talent to accomplish that goal.  At that point, we can have all the discussions we want (and we surely will) about who is actually the number one, number two, or number three player on the team.  That will be fine with me. 

However, the notion of getting rid of him for the chance at some better player who doesn't even exist yet, seems like folly.  You don't get rid of a top fifteen player in the league just because you don't think he can win a title on his own to look for a player who might be able to one day.  Rather, it makes more sense to attempt to  add enough talent to the great player that you already have in place to put you back into contender status.   

A lot of folks like to point out that you need a Bird, a Jordan, a Magic, a Shaq, or Duncan to be able to compete for titles.  Personally, I think the days of the individual superstar dominating the game are either over or on the decline.  I don't think it's because "transcendent" players aren't coming around anymore.  I think it's more that the overall depth and quality of talent in the league is greater than it's ever been.  So, it's much harder to transcend above everybody else. 

That's why building a great team is more important than simply getting a great player, particularly if getting an opportunity at that potential great player means getting rid of the elite talent that you already have in place.   

[PhoSita]

Underpaid, prime of his career, and he's willingly spending it on team that's tanking.  Everybody bailed and he's still here.  Diligent.  Patient. And still loyal (like that's ever a question with Rondo).  We're rebuilding and he's not asking for a trade or making a fuss.  Looking back to how the majority of the Celtics fans treated him this past season in the light of what's happening now, it makes me want to puke.  This guy deserves better, especially from the Celtic's fans

RR probably had a great talk with his agent about all of this.  Who wouldn't, right?

It probably ended up like this:

RR, you're injured, and have never played with anything but HOF talent, not just star talent, but HOFers.  This year, you're coming off of injury with little expectations, and the next year is a contract year.  Relax, do your job, and let me do mine.

  So you're saying that you watched the Knicks series and told yourself we had multiple players who were displaying "HOF talent"? Did you even think that when Rondo was playing with one arm during the 2011 playoffs and the Heat were beating them? Rondo plays with star talent, but he hasn't played with HOF talent for quite a while.

I think you're right, but I also think that More Banners is probably not far off the mark as far as the general perception of Rondo around the league.

  It wouldn't surprise me, the less closely you follow the team the more likely you are to think Rondo's never played without multiple HOF-level talents.

I've argued on Twitter with at least one guy (an Orlando sports reporter) who was steadfast in his belief that Rondo is just a role player who's benefited from the guys around him. 

This was back when the Celtics were trying to trade Rondo for CP3.

[BballTim]

Underpaid, prime of his career, and he's willingly spending it on team that's tanking.  Everybody bailed and he's still here.  Diligent.  Patient. And still loyal (like that's ever a question with Rondo).  We're rebuilding and he's not asking for a trade or making a fuss.  Looking back to how the majority of the Celtics fans treated him this past season in the light of what's happening now, it makes me want to puke.  This guy deserves better, especially from the Celtic's fans

RR probably had a great talk with his agent about all of this.  Who wouldn't, right?

It probably ended up like this:

RR, you're injured, and have never played with anything but HOF talent, not just star talent, but HOFers.  This year, you're coming off of injury with little expectations, and the next year is a contract year.  Relax, do your job, and let me do mine.

  So you're saying that you watched the Knicks series and told yourself we had multiple players who were displaying "HOF talent"? Did you even think that when Rondo was playing with one arm during the 2011 playoffs and the Heat were beating them? Rondo plays with star talent, but he hasn't played with HOF talent for quite a while.

I think you're right, but I also think that More Banners is probably not far off the mark as far as the general perception of Rondo around the league.

Fair or not, I do think there's skepticism, or at least uncertainty, about how Rondo will perform without guys like Pierce and KG playing next to him.

I think we're all a bit uncertain as well about how he'll do as the leader of a young team, considering in the past he has been suspended for interactions with refs and stuff.

And I think we're all a bit uncertain as well about how he would perform if surrounded by subpar talent, and consequently double-teamed.  We've never seen that in his career.  What would happen?  Especially now that he may perhaps have lost half-step, or when he does?

  If the past is any indication Rondo's just as likely to challenge Stockton's assist record as he is to struggle when he's double-teamed. You do see other teams try it from time to time, but not a lot because Rondo's probably better at getting the ball to the open player than anyone else in the league.

So I think he needs to chill and prove his value, and this is the perfect opportunity for him to do so, no small part because the team really isn't too bad, and seems to be made to complement his talents (e.g., Green, Sully, and Olynyk, plus Bass and Lee, are all shooters).

  Most nba rotation-level players can either shoot decently or get to the rim and Rondo works well with either type of player.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Underpaid, prime of his career, and he's willingly spending it on team that's tanking.  Everybody bailed and he's still here.  Diligent.  Patient. And still loyal (like that's ever a question with Rondo).  We're rebuilding and he's not asking for a trade or making a fuss.  Looking back to how the majority of the Celtics fans treated him this past season in the light of what's happening now, it makes me want to puke.  This guy deserves better, especially from the Celtic's fans

RR probably had a great talk with his agent about all of this.  Who wouldn't, right?

It probably ended up like this:

RR, you're injured, and have never played with anything but HOF talent, not just star talent, but HOFers.  This year, you're coming off of injury with little expectations, and the next year is a contract year.  Relax, do your job, and let me do mine.

  So you're saying that you watched the Knicks series and told yourself we had multiple players who were displaying "HOF talent"? Did you even think that when Rondo was playing with one arm during the 2011 playoffs and the Heat were beating them? Rondo plays with star talent, but he hasn't played with HOF talent for quite a while.

I think you're right, but I also think that More Banners is probably not far off the mark as far as the general perception of Rondo around the league.

  It wouldn't surprise me, the less closely you follow the team the more likely you are to think Rondo's never played without multiple HOF-level talents.

I've argued on Twitter with at least one guy (an Orlando sports reporter) who was steadfast in his belief that Rondo is just a role player who's benefited from the guys around him. 

This was back when the Celtics were trying to trade Rondo for CP3.

Personally I don't think Rondo has benefited all that much by playing with these players. Only one I can say for sure is Kevin Garnett.

But as much as I like Pierce, Rondo didn't gain much playing off him. More than anything it disrupted his touches and his playmaking.

During the first couple of seasons, sure Rondo benefited from them. But since then, I'd say no.