Chris Forsberg reports on TE gained in Nets trade

[nickagneta]

Asik is the guy I'd target.  Maybe Houston next summer wants to cut payroll and take a few future draft picks.

I wonder how his poison pill provision would affect such a trade. He makes like $5+ million during this upcoming season and then $14+ million for 2014-15.

It would be treated as $8.37m when it comes to trades, luxury tax calculations, or anything else cap-related.

Is that new with the new CBA, LC, because I remember using the various trade machine a couple years ago and the poison pill provisions always made the trades almost impossible for those players?

The typical "poison pill" is something different:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q88

There aren't many contracts out there like Lin's and Asik's, because few GMs have taken advantage of the possibility like Morey did.

I believe that LC is right.  If you're talking about the cap, it's an $8.3 million hit.  The only place Asik's contract hurts is in actual dollars.  The Rockets' owner will have to write out checks for $15 million to Asik next year.

So which is used for calculating salary when determining luxury taxes?

[Roy H.]

Asik is the guy I'd target.  Maybe Houston next summer wants to cut payroll and take a few future draft picks.

I wonder how his poison pill provision would affect such a trade. He makes like $5+ million during this upcoming season and then $14+ million for 2014-15.

It would be treated as $8.37m when it comes to trades, luxury tax calculations, or anything else cap-related.

Is that new with the new CBA, LC, because I remember using the various trade machine a couple years ago and the poison pill provisions always made the trades almost impossible for those players?

The typical "poison pill" is something different:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q88

There aren't many contracts out there like Lin's and Asik's, because few GMs have taken advantage of the possibility like Morey did.

I believe that LC is right.  If you're talking about the cap, it's an $8.3 million hit.  The only place Asik's contract hurts is in actual dollars.  The Rockets' owner will have to write out checks for $15 million to Asik next year.

So which is used for calculating salary when determining luxury taxes?

The AAV of approximately $8.3 million.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

While I wouldn't describe the trade exception as "insanely valuable" like Forsberg does, it does have a lot of value.  We've seen teams like Cleveland and Utah gain assets for absorbing other teams' unwanted salary, and there's a chance that this can be used.

The value is mitigated to some degree because at least for this season, the team is unlikely to want to add salary.  Come draft time and early next summer, though, Danny could use this to add more to the deal.

I didn't like the trade for two reasons: 1) I thought the Celtics should reload, and 2) I didn't think the Celtics got good value.  The trade exception could potentially help a lot with #2.

Hey Negative Nancy, I mean Roy,

Do you still think it will be MORE than five years before we are even competitive?

Smitty77

P.S.  Danny is a GENIUS baby:-)))))))))))))))))

That's the standard now?  Being "competitive"?

I said I think it's unlikely we'll be a true contender within five years.  I stand by that.

It is fine to hold that opinion, but the entitlement seen around here, that The Celtics are vested to contend every year gets tiresome quickly. I personally think this rebuild has taken a solid first step and it won't be 5 years till they are strongly competitive. But the idea that it is all bullhicky if they aren't absolute contenders, well, what is the fun in that?

Roy, you obviously remember the years between 16 and 17. While there were some real stinkers there there was also the fun and enjoyment of watching basketball. To see that replaced with "that's the standard now?" is, frankly, depressing.

But I'm the guy who would rather have fun watching a team I enjoy that isn't winning it all than a team I dislike contending, so use that grain of salt.

What's the sense of blowing up last year's team if the goal is only to be "competitive", though, without really contending?

I think you're misunderstanding the context of the conversation between Smitty and I, though.  He's referencing another thread, where others were claiming we'd be contenders within five years.  I said I'm skeptical of that, and was labeled as "negative".  I still stand by that.  It's really, really hard to be a contender in the NBA, and I'm pretty doubtful that Danny is going to pull off that total rebuild in five years.

I'd love to be wrong, though.

Thank you for the context, which I was unaware of. That said, I do disagree about the 5 year timeline. I don't see why that couldn't be a reality. Is it guaranteed? Of course not. Nothing in The NBA is.

But if contending is the standard, well, last years squad, and bringing back last years squad for another go round, certainly weren't contending either. They clearly fell (and this year would fall) into the "competitive" category with no real chance of winning a title. So, that said, why wouldn't you hasten the rebuilding process with a deal that was very beneficial to such a thing?

Believe you me, the deal DA got from The Nets was about as good as you could ever get for PP and KG. It put a rebuild about three steps further ahead than running it all back another year, just to be competitive. So, the "blow-up" has to be seen as that: quickening what would otherwise be a much longer stay mired in the land of being "competitive." It doesn't make this years roster much better, barring some drastic move, but it certainly speeds up the process in which the roster has the potential to be competing.

That is my two cents, at least. And I am a Rondo partisan, absolutely love him and his game, and don't see him being a malcontent or hampering a rebuild. Rather, a fundamental piece of a franchise rebuilding and moving forward, just to lay that on the table as well.

[hpantazo]

Just so everyone knows, none of these guys can be traded for next year using the TE:

Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Carmelo Anthony
Amar'e Stoudemire
Joe Johnson
Dwight Howard
Pau Gasol
Manu Ginobili
LeBron James
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Rudy Gay
Kevin Durant
Zach Randolph
Derrick Rose
Blake Griffin
Paul Pierce
Carlos Boozer
Marc Gasol
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Love
Brook Lopez
LaMarcus Aldridge
Emeka Okafor
Eric Gordon
Roy Hibbert
Luol Deng
Tyson Chandler
Danny Granger
Andrew Bogut
David Lee
James Harden
Josh Smith
Al Jefferson
Ben Gordon
Nene Hilario
Tony Parker
Kevin Garnett
Serge Ibaka
Hedo Turkoglu
David West
Al Horford
Andrea Bargnani
Nicolas Batum
Andre Iguodala
Joakim Noah
Beno Udrih
Richard Jefferson
DeAndre Jordan
Ty Lawson
JaVale McGee

Simply put, until the season ends next year, they make too much money to be traded for with the TE.

And this might not be a complete list as there might be even more added once this off season is over and players like Ellis and Pekovic get new contracts.

isn't Udrih a free agent?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Just so everyone knows, none of these guys can be traded for next year using the TE:

Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Carmelo Anthony
Amar'e Stoudemire
Joe Johnson
Dwight Howard
Pau Gasol
Manu Ginobili
LeBron James
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Rudy Gay
Kevin Durant
Zach Randolph
Derrick Rose
Blake Griffin
Paul Pierce
Carlos Boozer
Marc Gasol
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Love
Brook Lopez
LaMarcus Aldridge
Emeka Okafor
Eric Gordon
Roy Hibbert
Luol Deng
Tyson Chandler
Danny Granger
Andrew Bogut
David Lee
James Harden
Josh Smith
Al Jefferson
Ben Gordon
Nene Hilario
Tony Parker
Kevin Garnett
Serge Ibaka
Hedo Turkoglu
David West
Al Horford
Andrea Bargnani
Nicolas Batum
Andre Iguodala
Joakim Noah
Beno Udrih
Richard Jefferson
DeAndre Jordan
Ty Lawson
JaVale McGee

Simply put, until the season ends next year, they make too much money to be traded for with the TE.

And this might not be a complete list as there might be even more added once this off season is over and players like Ellis and Pekovic get new contracts.

Well then, Cousins it is!

[nickagneta]

Just so everyone knows, none of these guys can be traded for next year using the TE:

Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Carmelo Anthony
Amar'e Stoudemire
Joe Johnson
Dwight Howard
Pau Gasol
Manu Ginobili
LeBron James
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Rudy Gay
Kevin Durant
Zach Randolph
Derrick Rose
Blake Griffin
Paul Pierce
Carlos Boozer
Marc Gasol
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Love
Brook Lopez
LaMarcus Aldridge
Emeka Okafor
Eric Gordon
Roy Hibbert
Luol Deng
Tyson Chandler
Danny Granger
Andrew Bogut
David Lee
James Harden
Josh Smith
Al Jefferson
Ben Gordon
Nene Hilario
Tony Parker
Kevin Garnett
Serge Ibaka
Hedo Turkoglu
David West
Al Horford
Andrea Bargnani
Nicolas Batum
Andre Iguodala
Joakim Noah
Beno Udrih
Richard Jefferson
DeAndre Jordan
Ty Lawson
JaVale McGee

Simply put, until the season ends next year, they make too much money to be traded for with the TE.

And this might not be a complete list as there might be even more added once this off season is over and players like Ellis and Pekovic get new contracts.

isn't Udrih a free agent?

Is he? I took the list from the basketball-reference player salary list. So there might be a guy or two that shouldn't be there. I edited out a couple guys that I knew signed for less this year or were already Celtics. probably just missed him. Good pick up!

[clover]

Just so everyone knows, none of these guys can be traded for next year using the TE:

Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Carmelo Anthony
Amar'e Stoudemire
Joe Johnson
Dwight Howard
Pau Gasol
Manu Ginobili
LeBron James
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Rudy Gay
Kevin Durant
Zach Randolph
Derrick Rose
Blake Griffin
Paul Pierce
Carlos Boozer
Marc Gasol
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Love
Brook Lopez
LaMarcus Aldridge
Emeka Okafor
Eric Gordon
Roy Hibbert
Luol Deng
Tyson Chandler
Danny Granger
Andrew Bogut
David Lee
James Harden
Josh Smith
Al Jefferson
Ben Gordon
Nene Hilario
Tony Parker
Kevin Garnett
Serge Ibaka
Hedo Turkoglu
David West
Al Horford
Andrea Bargnani
Nicolas Batum
Andre Iguodala
Joakim Noah
Beno Udrih
Richard Jefferson
DeAndre Jordan
Ty Lawson
JaVale McGee

Simply put, until the season ends next year, they make too much money to be traded for with the TE.

And this might not be a complete list as there might be even more added once this off season is over and players like Ellis and Pekovic get new contracts.

Well then, Cousins it is!

Ha ha

[kozlodoev]

I'll reserve judgement on this until it turns into a player. The TE has to be realized by this time next year, so not much room for maneuvering there (especially given that we're confined to a hard cap this season, and are already closer than the full value of the TE from it).

[BballTim]

Just so everyone knows, none of these guys can be traded for next year using the TE:

Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Carmelo Anthony
Amar'e Stoudemire
Joe Johnson
Dwight Howard
Pau Gasol
Manu Ginobili
LeBron James
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Rudy Gay
Kevin Durant
Zach Randolph
Derrick Rose
Blake Griffin
Paul Pierce
Carlos Boozer
Marc Gasol
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Love
Brook Lopez
LaMarcus Aldridge
Emeka Okafor
Eric Gordon
Roy Hibbert
Luol Deng
Tyson Chandler
Danny Granger
Andrew Bogut
David Lee
James Harden
Josh Smith
Al Jefferson
Ben Gordon
Nene Hilario
Tony Parker
Kevin Garnett
Serge Ibaka
Hedo Turkoglu
David West
Al Horford
Andrea Bargnani
Nicolas Batum
Andre Iguodala
Joakim Noah
Beno Udrih
Richard Jefferson
DeAndre Jordan
Ty Lawson
JaVale McGee

Simply put, until the season ends next year, they make too much money to be traded for with the TE.

And this might not be a complete list as there might be even more added once this off season is over and players like Ellis and Pekovic get new contracts.

  Kinda scary, some of those guys making more than $10M.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'll reserve judgement on this until it turns into a player. The TE has to be realized by this time next year, so not much room for maneuvering there (especially given that we're confined to a hard cap this season, and are already closer than the full value of the TE from it).

We haven't made any moves yet this year that I'm aware of that confines us to a hard cap.

Unless the Brazilian dude was signed using an exception... we'll see how the rookies are signed too, if at all.

[bfrombleacher]

I'll reserve judgement on this until it turns into a player. The TE has to be realized by this time next year, so not much room for maneuvering there (especially given that we're confined to a hard cap this season, and are already closer than the full value of the TE from it).

I'm hoping for a trash contract to be absorbed along with a 1st. Seems like a likely case scenario.

[kozlodoev]

I'll reserve judgement on this until it turns into a player. The TE has to be realized by this time next year, so not much room for maneuvering there (especially given that we're confined to a hard cap this season, and are already closer than the full value of the TE from it).

I'm hoping for a trash contract to be absorbed along with a 1st. Seems like a likely case scenario.

I'll be much more interested in an actual player -- a handsomely paid, somewhat disgruntled star on a team that's going nowhere (Love, Aldridge, Cousins or the likes).

[Roy H.]

I'll reserve judgement on this until it turns into a player. The TE has to be realized by this time next year, so not much room for maneuvering there (especially given that we're confined to a hard cap this season, and are already closer than the full value of the TE from it).

I'm hoping for a trash contract to be absorbed along with a 1st. Seems like a likely case scenario.

I'll be much more interested in an actual player -- a handsomely paid, somewhat disgruntled star on a team that's going nowhere (Love, Aldridge, Cousins or the likes).

Aldridge and Love make far too much to fit under the exception, unfortunately.

[hwangjini_1]

I'll reserve judgement on this until it turns into a player. The TE has to be realized by this time next year, so not much room for maneuvering there (especially given that we're confined to a hard cap this season, and are already closer than the full value of the TE from it).

true, but in a way this is a metaphor for ainge's entire rebuild campaign i think. until it is done or failed we cannot, should not, pass final judgement.

for now, we can look at all these moves - and how many has danny made in the past month? - and see how each is a potential move forward. and if not a direct move forward (think TE) does it place the celtics in a position that makes success a little more likely?

it is almost like accumulating a boatload of lottery tickets. perhaps none of them may work, but the more you have the more likely at least a few of them will pay off in some way.

- the DJ white trade
- drafting olynyk & iversn
- getting anything, let alone a 1st round pick, for a coach who wanted to escape
- hiring stevens stealthfully
- hiring adams stealthfully or not
- taking on toad-like salaries that may turn into princes if we are patient
- hoarding first round draft picks for the next 5 years
- the complex and convoluted puzzle of the TE, can danny solve it in time?

none may pass, none may work. but i like the possibilities ainge has created so far. and let's not forget this is only the start of the rebuild. what other adventures await our mighty hero GM as he fights the dragons and demons of the nba on the quest to #18 and beyond?

the celtics are not guaranteed to be contenders in 3-4 years, but i can now at least how it is possible they might be.

[saltlover]

I'll reserve judgement on this until it turns into a player. The TE has to be realized by this time next year, so not much room for maneuvering there (especially given that we're confined to a hard cap this season, and are already closer than the full value of the TE from it).

We haven't made any moves yet this year that I'm aware of that confines us to a hard cap.

Unless the Brazilian dude was signed using an exception... we'll see how the rookies are signed too, if at all.

Acquiring a player via a sign-and-trade (Bogans) confines us to the hard cap.