With the Brad Stevens hire, why is Rondo automatically GONE?

[cltc5]

Great move for the C's tiem to move on from this big 3 superstar mmindset and get a great young and hungry team moving forward.

[Kuberski33]

The new coach is signed up for longer than any player.  Rondo will either buy in or be traded.  But its Stevens who holds all the cards. 

Personally I think it would be stupid to just flat out say this can't work.  Which coaches can Rondo play for?  We really don't know.

You have to give this relationship a chance and see what happens.  Just arbitrarily dismissing an All Star player entering his prime makes zero sense.

[TripleOT]

I agree. But I also think that Rondo was being pushed and forced to be the leader, to dominate the ball and be the assist king. We made Allen into a pure jumpshooter, nothing else. We now realize that Allen's criticism of that was correct, since we were not utilizing him and he wasn't playing a guard role anymore. He wasn't dribbling, bring the ball up, doing anything. Just forced to stand in the corner and shoot the ball, we were lucky he was such a good shooter that even making him a spot-up jumpshooter worked because he still made them. Look at him in Miami now, you see that he still has more to his game.

Ray Allen's offense in Miami was slightly different than his last few years in Boston (22% of total shots as layups in Miami vs 20% in Boston, 71% of buckets assisted in Miami to 77% in Boston) and can also be attributed to Allen being healthier with his ankles and less stationary as a player.

[droopdog7]

Some of you guys crack me up.  I can't believe what I'm reading.  Or actually, I guess I can.

People seem to be insinuating that Stevens is already a better nba coach than Doc.  And that Rondos stubbornness and immaturity is somehow make believe.  NBA teams are not and should not be a democracy.  The coach needs to be the leader and players need to buy in.  Star players need to support their coach else everything falls apart.

People talking about rondo like he's too good to be coached or that he's learned all he needs to learn.  No, the problem is that he THINKS he's learned all be needs to learn.  He's basically immature.  At one point or another every member of the big three wanted to bounce him against the wall.

So sure, it is possible that rondo and Stevens get along perfectly and never get at odds.  But it is more likely that rondo will be rondo and cause headaches for the new coach.  That doesn't necessarily mean that Stevens won't be able to last or that rondo must go.  But people supporting rondos immaturity and pretending like its  good thing is completely off base.

[rondoallaturca]

Some of you guys crack me up.  I can't believe what I'm reading.  Or actually, I guess I can.

People seem to be insinuating that Stevens is already a better nba coach than Doc.  And that Rondos stubbornness and immaturity is somehow make believe.  NBA teams are not and should not be a democracy.  The coach needs to be the leader and players need to buy in.  Star players need to support their coach else everything falls apart.

People talking about rondo like he's too good to be coached or that he's learned all he needs to learn.  No, the problem is that he THINKS he's learned all be needs to learn.  He's basically immature.  At one point or another every member of the big three wanted to bounce him against the wall.

So sure, it is possible that rondo and Stevens get along perfectly and never get at odds.  But it is more likely that rondo will be rondo and cause headaches for the new coach.  That doesn't necessarily mean that Stevens won't be able to last or that rondo must go.  But people supporting rondos immaturity and pretending like its  good thing is completely off base.

The only reasoning behind your argument is that Rondo "THINKS he's learned all be needs to learn.  He's basically immature." Should I be surprised that yet another anti-Rondo post uses nothing but wild assumptions to base their arguments around/

[byennie]

An equally valid theory: the Celtics are now being built AROUND Rondo, and they hired a young, smart coach to design the system which maximizes him instead of bringing an established guy into the organization. I don't see Steven bringing the Butler system to the NBA - he's gonna hit the analytics, understand the strengths of guys like Rondo, Bradley, Sullinger and Green, and design a brand new style of Celtics basketball. Rondo gets the chance to play in an offense designed *for* him, and we seek out the kind of high IQ guys who can handle a complex defensive scheme. Gotta think it would be fun designing the D around Rondo, Bradley, Green and Sully. All intelligent players and the former 3 have elite tools for the job.

Exciting times - I'm sure it'll get old at times while we're losing, but the future is worth being optimistic about.

[sunnyd656]

Rondo either will really get along with Stevens or will butt heads.

This is quite the prediction. Literally 100% success rate.

[rondoallaturca]

I know this is on the frontpage, it's worth linking here just in case anybody missed it. It's a great read by Jeff Clark regarding the Rondo implications of the Brad Stevens hiring. He makes a lot of great points and I agree with everything he says.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/7/3/4492214/does-the-brad-stevens-hire-indicate-that-the-celtics-will-trade-rondo

[sunnyd656]

Some of you guys crack me up.  I can't believe what I'm reading.  Or actually, I guess I can.

People seem to be insinuating that Stevens is already a better nba coach than Doc.  And that Rondos stubbornness and immaturity is somehow make believe.  NBA teams are not and should not be a democracy.  The coach needs to be the leader and players need to buy in.  Star players need to support their coach else everything falls apart.

People talking about rondo like he's too good to be coached or that he's learned all he needs to learn.  No, the problem is that he THINKS he's learned all be needs to learn.  He's basically immature.  At one point or another every member of the big three wanted to bounce him against the wall.

So sure, it is possible that rondo and Stevens get along perfectly and never get at odds.  But it is more likely that rondo will be rondo and cause headaches for the new coach.  That doesn't necessarily mean that Stevens won't be able to last or that rondo must go.  But people supporting rondos immaturity and pretending like its  good thing is completely off base.

You call out people for saying that this new coach is better than doc, and will be better for our young players somehow, which I agree with you on.

But then you go and say "rondo THINKS" as if you know what he is thinking. Would have to call out a double standard here.

[sunnyd656]

Some of you guys crack me up.  I can't believe what I'm reading.  Or actually, I guess I can.

People seem to be insinuating that Stevens is already a better nba coach than Doc.  And that Rondos stubbornness and immaturity is somehow make believe.  NBA teams are not and should not be a democracy.  The coach needs to be the leader and players need to buy in.  Star players need to support their coach else everything falls apart.

People talking about rondo like he's too good to be coached or that he's learned all he needs to learn.  No, the problem is that he THINKS he's learned all be needs to learn.  He's basically immature.  At one point or another every member of the big three wanted to bounce him against the wall.

So sure, it is possible that rondo and Stevens get along perfectly and never get at odds.  But it is more likely that rondo will be rondo and cause headaches for the new coach.  That doesn't necessarily mean that Stevens won't be able to last or that rondo must go.  But people supporting rondos immaturity and pretending like its  good thing is completely off base.

The only reasoning behind your argument is that Rondo "THINKS he's learned all be needs to learn.  He's basically immature." Should I be surprised that yet another anti-Rondo post uses nothing but wild assumptions to base their arguments around/

He got to it before I did.

I think it's telling when Rondo haters only have assumptions to base their arguments off of.

I lol'd at this.

[droopdog7]

Some of you guys crack me up.  I can't believe what I'm reading.  Or actually, I guess I can.

People seem to be insinuating that Stevens is already a better nba coach than Doc.  And that Rondos stubbornness and immaturity is somehow make believe.  NBA teams are not and should not be a democracy.  The coach needs to be the leader and players need to buy in.  Star players need to support their coach else everything falls apart.

People talking about rondo like he's too good to be coached or that he's learned all he needs to learn.  No, the problem is that he THINKS he's learned all be needs to learn.  He's basically immature.  At one point or another every member of the big three wanted to bounce him against the wall.

So sure, it is possible that rondo and Stevens get along perfectly and never get at odds.  But it is more likely that rondo will be rondo and cause headaches for the new coach.  That doesn't necessarily mean that Stevens won't be able to last or that rondo must go.  But people supporting rondos immaturity and pretending like its  good thing is completely off base.

The only reasoning behind your argument is that Rondo "THINKS he's learned all be needs to learn.  He's basically immature." Should I be surprised that yet another anti-Rondo post uses nothing but wild assumptions to base their arguments around/

He got to it before I did.

I think it's telling when Rondo haters only have assumptions to base their arguments off of.

I lol'd at this.

First, none of us are in the locker room or around these players on a regular basis.  I think we can all agree on that.  But to say I'm making assumptions, well that's just not accurate.  I am making staments based in reports (and what I see with my own eyes on the court).  I'm sorry but that's not assuming.  Simply using the logic that where there is smoke there is fire.

So if your defense is going to be, I don't know because I'm not there, well then you've got me.  But if people use common sense, and are open to the idea that the Celtic players crap gold bars, then people should be able to make judgements even of they aren't there.  I would argue that the sentiment that I don't know because I'm not there is more weak than making judgements based on evidence.

[rondoallaturca]

I have never read any report in my life that says that Rondo thinks he's good enough where he doesn't have to learn more. From all the accounts I've heard of, Rondo and Doc frequently got into disagreements, but bounced ideas off each other and both walked away with a heightened understanding of the topic of discussion. That doesn't sound like a guy who's closed his ears off to people who disagree with him.

[badshar]

I agree. But I also think that Rondo was being pushed and forced to be the leader, to dominate the ball and be the assist king. We made Allen into a pure jumpshooter, nothing else. We now realize that Allen's criticism of that was correct, since we were not utilizing him and he wasn't playing a guard role anymore. He wasn't dribbling, bring the ball up, doing anything. Just forced to stand in the corner and shoot the ball, we were lucky he was such a good shooter that even making him a spot-up jumpshooter worked because he still made them. Look at him in Miami now, you see that he still has more to his game.

Ray Allen's offense in Miami was slightly different than his last few years in Boston (22% of total shots as layups in Miami vs 20% in Boston, 71% of buckets assisted in Miami to 77% in Boston) and can also be attributed to Allen being healthier with his ankles and less stationary as a player.

True, but you could see his role starting to take a hit in 2011 already. As someone else said, Doc decided to overcoach the team, which it hurt it a lot.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I know this is on the frontpage, it's worth linking here just in case anybody missed it. It's a great read by Jeff Clark regarding the Rondo implications of the Brad Stevens hiring. He makes a lot of great points and I agree with everything he says.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/7/3/4492214/does-the-brad-stevens-hire-indicate-that-the-celtics-will-trade-rondo

Thanks. Glad to have read this and feel similarly. Think he does a nice job laying out the reasons to be excited. And while it will very likely be a fine line to balance, the dividends could be great.

[droopdog7]

I have never read any report in my life that says that Rondo thinks he's good enough where he doesn't have to learn more. From all the accounts I've heard of, Rondo and Doc frequently got into disagreements, but bounced ideas off each other and both walked away with a heightened understanding of the topic of discussion. That doesn't sound like a guy who's closed his ears off to people who disagree with him.

Well, I wasn't referring to reports.  I was responding to posters on this thread saying that rondo knew more than Doc.