The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.

[JBcat]

An underrated factor here: the Celtics really, really don't want to pay Doc $21 million for the next 3 years if we're not going to be contending.  If he keeps coaching that's what happens; if we fire him, we pay him $21 million to NOT coach here, which is even worse.

This is about getting out of Doc's contract as much as any of the other ones.

Did the Celtics actually say that?  The Celtics and Doc knew full well we would need to rebuild at some point when he signed a long term deal to coach in Boston. 

[Casperian]

They have all the leverage and are refusing to acquiesce to any of of our demands. At that point in the negotiation when one side isn't willing to give at all, that's when we need to back away

But they don't.

They really don't, especially if the message from Doc is "trade me here or I'm out".  He's out either way.

Otherwise they are offering questionable value that may have little to no longer term benefit. 

They need to get Doc to keep Chris Paul locked up as a Clipper.  And probably KG as well, he apparently was pushing for a KG trade during the season.  So that gives us leverage.

Let´s say we call the deal off.

Then what? Keep Doc? Release him, and lose KG?

[j804]

For the record, I don't think getting Doc is the ONLY way CP3 stays with the Clippers. But as has been hinted, it is the easiest way.

Thus the Celtics have plenty of leverage.

Yup, no way is that as he supposedly likes LA a lot already but it seals the deal IMO

[goCeltics]

I doubt doc will come back especially if danny starts dumping to rebuild, doubt doc would wanna stick around a lotto team and see his stock fall

This 21 million dollars we owe doc is a fallacy, he'll easily accept a buyout for next to nothing instead of give people a reminder of how bad of a coach he is absent kg+tibs

[kozlodoev]

They really don't, especially if the message from Doc is "trade me here or I'm out".  He's out either way.

Until anyone can show solid proof otherwise, the only confirmed message is the one from Doc's 2011 interview with WEEI right after signing the extension.

In any case, this doesn't affect the team's leverage with respect to Doc: regardless of whether he coaches for the Celtics or not, whether he can coach on the Clipper depends entirely on Ainge.

[flybono]

Can someone please explain the Salary Cap implications, Please?

Garnett Pierce and say Lee exit via trade or buyout and the Celts obtain only Jordan at 10 million per, Team should have enough payroll to make a run at JSmith AJefferson or Millsap NO?

How did the Heat do it?

[nickagneta]

Guess what? This deal hasn't been done yet. It is all sources this sources that. It may well get done but all the preemptive whining and moaning and calling for this guy to be fired and saying that guy is a bum and being so outraged and insulted ad nauseum....my gosh.

Like Danny Ainge has never offered one of these "insulting" deals in a trade discussion? And he hasn't taken this bad deal, which is all sources saying this and that, which you want him fired over.

A little perspective. Jeez. If a deal that is bad goes down, burn whomever you like at the stakes. But when it is rumors flying left and right, seems a little presumptive.

I don't get how this is such an insult and a shame upon the celtics for being involved in a negotiation. A negotiation that is weird and public in this twitter world. These things have gone on forever, with teams asking for the world, getting countered with a horrible offer, etc etc until something works out or doesn't. The difference is you didn't hear every pen put to paper and every phone picked up. Just because you hear the posturing each side makes these days doesn't mean they didn't happen before, won't happen again in the future, and that it isn't how all these deals happen. Nothing to be so aghast and insulted about.

I'm sure if you knew how some deals went down in the past you would have called for Red to be fired immediately.

And not like Danny hasn't thrown some wildly "insulting", to use the terms being thrown around, offers at teams before. And, as I said earlier, if any team he "insulted" like that refused to deal with him there wouldn't be a team in the league left to deal with.

Imagine what the fans calling for Ainge's firing and calling names to Doc and others and talking about loyalty and so forth would have been like back when it was a rumor that Red Auerbach was going to go to the Knicks?

Instead of reverently citing Auerbach as a guy that is and was all about the Celtics, perhaps they would be calling him Benedict Red.

But then again, those back door meetings that had Red going to the Knicks never made Red a Knick and so all that is forgotten. This is business. No need top get so personal over business especially "rumored" business that may never materialize into anything.

[Chief Macho]

Guess what? This deal hasn't been done yet. It is all sources this sources that. It may well get done but all the preemptive whining and moaning and calling for this guy to be fired and saying that guy is a bum and being so outraged and insulted ad nauseum....my gosh.

Like Danny Ainge has never offered one of these "insulting" deals in a trade discussion? And he hasn't taken this bad deal, which is all sources saying this and that, which you want him fired over.

A little perspective. Jeez. If a deal that is bad goes down, burn whomever you like at the stakes. But when it is rumors flying left and right, seems a little presumptive.

I don't get how this is such an insult and a shame upon the celtics for being involved in a negotiation. A negotiation that is weird and public in this twitter world. These things have gone on forever, with teams asking for the world, getting countered with a horrible offer, etc etc until something works out or doesn't. The difference is you didn't hear every pen put to paper and every phone picked up. Just because you hear the posturing each side makes these days doesn't mean they didn't happen before, won't happen again in the future, and that it isn't how all these deals happen. Nothing to be so aghast and insulted about.

I'm sure if you knew how some deals went down in the past you would have called for Red to be fired immediately.

And not like Danny hasn't thrown some wildly "insulting", to use the terms being thrown around, offers at teams before. And, as I said earlier, if any team he "insulted" like that refused to deal with him there wouldn't be a team in the league left to deal with.

Imagine what the fans calling for Ainge's firing and calling names to Doc and others and talking about loyalty and so forth would have been like back when it was a rumor that Red Auerbach was going to go to the Knicks?

Instead of reverently citing Auerbach as a guy that is and was all about the Celtics, perhaps they would be calling him Benedict Red.

But then again, those back door meetings that had Red going to the Knicks never made Red a Knick and so all that is forgotten. This is business. No need top get so personal over business especially "rumored" business that may never materialize into anything.

yeah, cause that's super relevant.

[Evantime34]

They have all the leverage and are refusing to acquiesce to any of of our demands. At that point in the negotiation when one side isn't willing to give at all, that's when we need to back away

What leverage?



An overpayed C and some late draft picks in the 20s?


Meanwhile, the Clippers are trying to get a player and coach that could help keep a top 4 player in the NBA with the team.



Which one of these teams should be more desperate?

So the first reported deal had us getting Bledsoe and moving long term contracts, the next version had us without Bledsoe, the version after that they aren't sure they are taking back any of our 3 mid level contracts.

To me that seems like they have been taking things away during the negotiations. Teams with leverage are the ones to take things away.

Doc isn't coming back after all this and neither is KG. KG isn't going anywhere else besides LAC. Meaning our options are trading him there or letting him retire for nothing.

[kozlodoev]

Can someone please explain the Salary Cap implications, Please?

Garnett Pierce and say Lee exit via trade or buyout and the Celts obtain only Jordan at 10 million per, Team should have enough payroll to make a run at JSmith AJefferson or Millsap NO?

How did the Heat do it?

By having a lot more cap space.

The NBA salary cap is ~$58 million. The Celtics payroll is $73 million next season.  Garnett, Pierce, and Lee make $32 million, Jordan and Butler make $19, not accounting for Jordan's trade kicker. So for next year, the cap implications are pretty much squat.

[Chief Macho]

They have all the leverage and are refusing to acquiesce to any of of our demands. At that point in the negotiation when one side isn't willing to give at all, that's when we need to back away

What leverage?



An overpayed C and some late draft picks in the 20s?


Meanwhile, the Clippers are trying to get a player and coach that could help keep a top 4 player in the NBA with the team.



Which one of these teams should be more desperate?

So the first reported deal had us getting Bledsoe and moving long term contracts, the next version had us without Bledsoe, the version after that they aren't sure they are taking back any of our 3 mid level contracts.

To me that seems like they have been taking things away during the negotiations. Teams with leverage are the ones to take things away.

Doc isn't coming back after all this and neither is KG. KG isn't going anywhere else besides LAC. Meaning our options are trading him there or letting him retire for nothing.

for what it's worth Simmons tweeted,

"Celts stance hasn't wavered for 3 days - if you're getting Doc/KG and we're taking DJ, either we get Bledsoe or you have to take Lee/Terry."

seems logical.   nothing has changed much.

[Snakehead]

They have all the leverage and are refusing to acquiesce to any of of our demands. At that point in the negotiation when one side isn't willing to give at all, that's when we need to back away

But they don't.

They really don't, especially if the message from Doc is "trade me here or I'm out".  He's out either way.

Otherwise they are offering questionable value that may have little to no longer term benefit. 

They need to get Doc to keep Chris Paul locked up as a Clipper.  And probably KG as well, he apparently was pushing for a KG trade during the season.  So that gives us leverage.

Let´s say we call the deal off.

Then what? Keep Doc? Release him, and lose KG?

KG retires or he doesn't.  Either we have a productive leader for another year or we have that salary off.

Doc, as I said, seems to be going to the Clips or going to the broadcast booths, from rumor.  Or maybe he coaches us next year.  He's a good coach so that's fine.

We don't need to take a crappy offer for the sake of it.  DeAndre Jordan has questionable value and the draft pick won't be a good one because we are improving their team.  Unless we get Bledsoe or send them Terry and Lee I don't see the profit that makes it worth it for us.

[cltc5]

per nbatv Clippers taking terry

[WeMadeIt17]

per nbatv Clippers taking terry

Says who?

[rondohondo]

per nbatv Clippers taking terry

and there you have it


Bye KG and PP

Good Riddance Daoc