Clippers and Celtics Talking Deal

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

After this trade what makes Clippers better (on paper) than last seasons Celtics that makes them think they can win the chip?

After trade vs Celtics last season:

CP3-RR: pretty much a wash in the playoffs

Billups- AB: I say its a wash b/c both players do damage on one end. I don't see Billups giving more than AB. (don't go by AB in this playoffs b/c with RR he would have had a different role). Plus Billups is getting older and more worn by the second.

PP vs. Butler: PP wins this

Blake vs. Sully or Bass: Well this goes to Blake no question.

KG vs. KG: Well KG will be older and coming off an injury which might need surgery and we had him as fit as a fiddle most of the season. There was even talk that it was the best he felt in years going into the season (really he was healthy most of it b4 he was forced into a bazillion minutes)



Now for Key reserves

Clipps (after trade)- Crawford, Barnes, Odom, Hollins (yea lol.)

Celtics (last season)- Jeff Green, Jet, Lee, Bass/Sully, Barbosa, Collins (yea lol).

Crawford vs. Jet: Crawford wins this regular season for sure but let's think of this in terms of championship which is what this about, Jet stepped up excellently in the playoffs, let's imagine how much better he could have been in the playoffs had we actually had someone competent running our offense like RR. I call this a wash.

Barnes vs. Green: To me Green takes this in the playoffs b/c while RR was healthy Green had big games, he only needed time to get into basketball shape to start doing it more consistently... it wasn't that RR was out that let Green shine, I think it had more to do with Green getting into game shape to do what he was doing in his good games WITH RR, more consistently.

Odom vs. Sully or Bass: I give the edge to either one of Sully or Bass b/c we aren't talking about LA Lakers Odom here.

Hollins vs. Collins: Now this is funny! I say Collins wins this b/c of how well Collins performed in the playoffs the season b4 against us. I mean he was nothing to brag about but he stepped up HUGE for ATL when Horford was out!

Then we have extra good players for the Celtics that deserve mention:

Barbosa, Wilcox, and Lee... remember, after the trade Clipps don't have anyone else that deserves mention, Bledsoe is in the package to us. Well I could assume that Lee or Terry would be on the Clipps but who are we getting from the Clippers that subtracts from their team, Butler? So I won't mess with fillers for now.

What makes the new Clippers, after the trade, Better than the Celtics of last season (on paper)?

Then let's not forget chemistry. At this moment KG hasn't played with any of them... there is no sure thing we will let PP walk to end up there, lots of stuff to go through before that's even a possibility. At least with us KG had PP and RR (Bass, Green, AB), that he had chemistry with for a few seasons. Of course Doc would be there but he doesn't play. Then think about the Clippers ALL, besides KG, having to learn Doc's system... I mean, you see how hard it is every season when we bring in a few new guys, now imagine it for a ENTIRELY new team!


What makes that Clippers team better than last season's Celtics? I think on paper our team last season would have a better chance of winning the championship than the new Clippers team. I know some of you will say Blake but I think by just singling him out you miss out on other factors.... like a new coach, new system, chemistry (we had to deal with it but on paper we only really added 2 NEW key guys in Jet and Lee, no one thought it was going to be so hard), KG's health and age (may need surgery), Billups' health and age, and Doc's system deserves another mention... with more things sprinkled into it.

Sure Clippers are going to add more players but it's not like they are going to have money for anyone good. It's not like there are many good players out there that they could afford... b/c other teams need those players too and Mia will be getting the best (once again) of those ring chasers/good players (NYK, Nets, LA, Pacers, and a few more CONTENDERS looking to get some of that same cheap talent).


Edit: I forgot to add in that KG will be lucky to make it to the playoffs b/c he has to contend with something A LOT more than he did with us in the East. Bruising centers... he'll be facing Dwight, Asik, and Randolph/Gasol to name some... I mean, that's some bruising he's going to be taking nightly in the west!

[kgainez]

I don't get how anyone can support Doc after this.

He's pulling *female dog* moves to get himself the upperhand in Clippersland. He's created a wall in a scenario that ultimately wouldve left both organizations with a win-win.

In addition, I think it's crazy to me that Doc is only being loyal to KG and PP. As much as I think they deserve another ring, there's also another part of me that wants them to fall flat on their faces because of the way they've gone about this.

Personal loyalty over loyalty to the organization that signs your checks. This is just disgusting to me. Doc is throwing the Cs under the bus while persuading players to go with him as he drives that bus.

[kgainez]

After this trade what makes Clippers better (on paper) than last seasons Celtics that makes them think they can win the chip?

After trade vs Celtics last season:

CP3-RR: pretty much a wash in the playoffs

Billups- AB: I say its a wash b/c both players do damage on one end. I don't see Billups giving more than AB. (don't go by AB in this playoffs b/c with RR he would have had a different role). Plus Billups is getting older and more worn by the second.

PP vs. Butler: PP wins this

Blake vs. Sully or Bass: Well this goes to Blake no question.

KG vs. KG: Well KG will be older and coming off an injury which might need surgery and we had him as fit as a fiddle most of the season. There was even talk that it was the best he felt in years going into the season (really he was healthy most of it b4 he was forced into a bazillion minutes)



Now for Key reserves

Clipps (after trade)- Crawford, Barnes, Odom, Hollins (yea lol.)

Celtics (last season)- Jeff Green, Jet, Lee, Bass/Sully, Barbosa, Collins (yea lol).

Crawford vs. Jet: Crawford wins this regular season for sure but let's think of this in terms of championship which is what this about, Jet stepped up excellently in the playoffs, let's imagine how much better he could have been in the playoffs had we actually had someone competent running our offense like RR. I call this a wash.

Barnes vs. Green: To me Green takes this in the playoffs b/c while RR was healthy Green had big games, he only needed time to get into basketball shape to start doing it more consistently... it wasn't that RR was out that let Green shine, I think it had more to do with Green getting into game shape to do what he was doing in his good games WITH RR, more consistently.

Odom vs. Sully or Bass: I give the edge to either one of Sully or Bass b/c we aren't talking about LA Lakers Odom here.

Hollins vs. Collins: Now this is funny! I say Collins wins this b/c of how well Collins performed in the playoffs the season b4 against us. I mean he was nothing to brag about but he stepped up HUGE for ATL when Horford was out!

Then we have extra good players for the Celtics that deserve mention:

Barbosa, Wilcox, and Lee... remember, after the trade Clipps don't have anyone else that deserves mention, Bledsoe is in the package to us. Well I could assume that Lee or Terry would be on the Clipps but who are we getting from the Clippers that subtracts from their team, Butler? So I won't mess with fillers for now.

What makes the new Clippers, after the trade, Better than the Celtics of last season (on paper)?

Then let's not forget chemistry. At this moment KG hasn't played with any of them... there is no sure thing we will let PP walk to end up there, lots of stuff to go through before that's even a possibility. At least with us KG had PP and RR (Bass, Green, AB), that he had chemistry with for a few seasons. Of course Doc would be there but he doesn't play. Then think about the Clippers ALL, besides KG, having to learn Doc's system... I mean, you see how hard it is every season when we bring in a few new guys, now imagine it for a ENTIRELY new team!


What makes that Clippers team better than last season's Celtics? I think on paper our team last season would have a better chance of winning the championship than the new Clippers team. I know some of you will say Blake but I think by just singling him out you miss out on other factors.... like a new coach, new system, chemistry (we had to deal with it but on paper we only really added 2 NEW key guys in Jet and Lee, no one thought it was going to be so hard), KG's health and age (may need surgery), Billups' health and age, and Doc's system deserves another mention... with more things sprinkled into it.

Sure Clippers are going to add more players but it's not like they are going to have money for anyone good. It's not like there are many good players out there that they could afford... b/c other teams need those players too and Mia will be getting the best (once again) of those ring chasers/good players (NYK, Nets, LA, Pacers, and a few more CONTENDERS looking to get some of that same cheap talent).

on paper, the clippers are better than us. you've always got on green tinted glasses and i can't fault u for that. the only thing that makes it a 'wash' is a first round exit.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

After this trade what makes Clippers better (on paper) than last seasons Celtics that makes them think they can win the chip?

After trade vs Celtics last season:

CP3-RR: pretty much a wash in the playoffs

Billups- AB: I say its a wash b/c both players do damage on one end. I don't see Billups giving more than AB. (don't go by AB in this playoffs b/c with RR he would have had a different role). Plus Billups is getting older and more worn by the second.

PP vs. Butler: PP wins this

Blake vs. Sully or Bass: Well this goes to Blake no question.

KG vs. KG: Well KG will be older and coming off an injury which might need surgery and we had him as fit as a fiddle most of the season. There was even talk that it was the best he felt in years going into the season (really he was healthy most of it b4 he was forced into a bazillion minutes)



Now for Key reserves

Clipps (after trade)- Crawford, Barnes, Odom, Hollins (yea lol.)

Celtics (last season)- Jeff Green, Jet, Lee, Bass/Sully, Barbosa, Collins (yea lol).

Crawford vs. Jet: Crawford wins this regular season for sure but let's think of this in terms of championship which is what this about, Jet stepped up excellently in the playoffs, let's imagine how much better he could have been in the playoffs had we actually had someone competent running our offense like RR. I call this a wash.

Barnes vs. Green: To me Green takes this in the playoffs b/c while RR was healthy Green had big games, he only needed time to get into basketball shape to start doing it more consistently... it wasn't that RR was out that let Green shine, I think it had more to do with Green getting into game shape to do what he was doing in his good games WITH RR, more consistently.

Odom vs. Sully or Bass: I give the edge to either one of Sully or Bass b/c we aren't talking about LA Lakers Odom here.

Hollins vs. Collins: Now this is funny! I say Collins wins this b/c of how well Collins performed in the playoffs the season b4 against us. I mean he was nothing to brag about but he stepped up HUGE for ATL when Horford was out!

Then we have extra good players for the Celtics that deserve mention:

Barbosa, Wilcox, and Lee... remember, after the trade Clipps don't have anyone else that deserves mention, Bledsoe is in the package to us. Well I could assume that Lee or Terry would be on the Clipps but who are we getting from the Clippers that subtracts from their team, Butler? So I won't mess with fillers for now.

What makes the new Clippers, after the trade, Better than the Celtics of last season (on paper)?

Then let's not forget chemistry. At this moment KG hasn't played with any of them... there is no sure thing we will let PP walk to end up there, lots of stuff to go through before that's even a possibility. At least with us KG had PP and RR (Bass, Green, AB), that he had chemistry with for a few seasons. Of course Doc would be there but he doesn't play. Then think about the Clippers ALL, besides KG, having to learn Doc's system... I mean, you see how hard it is every season when we bring in a few new guys, now imagine it for a ENTIRELY new team!


What makes that Clippers team better than last season's Celtics? I think on paper our team last season would have a better chance of winning the championship than the new Clippers team. I know some of you will say Blake but I think by just singling him out you miss out on other factors.... like a new coach, new system, chemistry (we had to deal with it but on paper we only really added 2 NEW key guys in Jet and Lee, no one thought it was going to be so hard), KG's health and age (may need surgery), Billups' health and age, and Doc's system deserves another mention... with more things sprinkled into it.

Sure Clippers are going to add more players but it's not like they are going to have money for anyone good. It's not like there are many good players out there that they could afford... b/c other teams need those players too and Mia will be getting the best (once again) of those ring chasers/good players (NYK, Nets, LA, Pacers, and a few more CONTENDERS looking to get some of that same cheap talent).

on paper, the clippers are better than us. you've always got on green tinted glasses and i can't fault u for that. the only thing that makes it a 'wash' is a first round exit.

Yep, you explained why nicely. 

Edit: Mind you, I'm talking about last seasons Celtics vs. new Clippers... not us if we keep it together.

[indeedproceed]

Comparing us to the Clippers is silly. They've got Paul and Griffin, the best point guard in the NBA and the 2nd or 3rd best power forward (unless we're counting Bron, Duncan, or Melo as 4s) in the league.

But to the deal, Tony Allen summed up my thoughts nicely in a tweet: "Doc to LA? Wow."

[D.o.s.]

Comparing us to the Clippers is silly. They've got Paul and Griffin, the best point guard in the NBA and the 2nd or 3rd best power forward (unless we're counting Bron, Duncan, or Melo as 4s) in the league.

But to the deal, Tony Allen summed up my thoughts nicely in a tweet: "Doc to LA? Wow."

Cue 6,500 posts about how Rondo is better than Paul.

I think you're dramatically overrating Griffin as a player right now (though he certainly has a seriously high athletic ceiling).

[Chief Macho]

I don't get how anyone can support Doc after this.

He's pulling *female dog* moves to get himself the upperhand in Clippersland. He's created a wall in a scenario that ultimately wouldve left both organizations with a win-win.

In addition, I think it's crazy to me that Doc is only being loyal to KG and PP. As much as I think they deserve another ring, there's also another part of me that wants them to fall flat on their faces because of the way they've gone about this.

Personal loyalty over loyalty to the organization that signs your checks. This is just disgusting to me. Doc is throwing the Cs under the bus while persuading players to go with him as he drives that bus.

grow up.  you're acting silly, making up some kind of  pretend personal conflict in your head.  they all were great celtics,  just because grown men look out for their own best interest doesn't mean you have to create up some kind of hatred for them.   

[D.o.s.]

I don't get how anyone can support Doc after this.

He's pulling *female dog* moves to get himself the upperhand in Clippersland. He's created a wall in a scenario that ultimately wouldve left both organizations with a win-win.

In addition, I think it's crazy to me that Doc is only being loyal to KG and PP. As much as I think they deserve another ring, there's also another part of me that wants them to fall flat on their faces because of the way they've gone about this.

Personal loyalty over loyalty to the organization that signs your checks. This is just disgusting to me. Doc is throwing the Cs under the bus while persuading players to go with him as he drives that bus.

grow up.  you're acting silly, making up some kind of  pretend personal conflict in your head.  they all were great celtics,  just because grown men look out for their own best interest doesn't mean you have to create up some kind of hatred for them.   

While you're not wrong, this is sports we're talking about. Asking someone to grow up when we're discussing a children's game seems a little silly to me.

also, FWIW:

'Source: C's-Clips talks "appear dead." Means it's either over or we're into posturing phase. Leaning toward former, but nothing's certain.'

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/6/15/4434286/nba-trade-rumors-taking-stock-of-the-stalled-trade-talks-between

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Comparing us to the Clippers is silly. They've got Paul and Griffin, the best point guard in the NBA and the 2nd or 3rd best power forward (unless we're counting Bron, Duncan, or Melo as 4s) in the league.

But to the deal, Tony Allen summed up my thoughts nicely in a tweet: "Doc to LA? Wow."

Great, it's silly. Why reply?

Since you did, what evidence do you have that CP3 is better than RR when it comes to playoff basketball and trying to win a championship?

Did you look over the part when I talked about Blake? I know he is good but to discount all the other FACTORS I referenced to show why having Blake doesn't necessarily make them better?

[SHAQATTACK]

don; let doc take the team with him.....creep..! He can go with pp and no one else...!!! Keep kg..what are you..stupid..he is a loser closed minded coach.....

TP!

[SHAQATTACK]

heck....

what else do the stupid clippers want....they want our coach , two best players

what next ...the team buses , cheerleaders , and weight room equipment


this is sooooooooooooooooo.  incredible stupid it is really hard to believe its happening


Frankly they can have old man Rivers for free.......just get the creep out of Boston......forever

[Smutzy#9]

How many people here forget that basketball is a business?

Everyone seems to be holding vendettas against Doc for maybe trying for something new. He has been here for awhile now, sometimes change is good.

Look at is this way. Even Gretzky was traded............

[blink]

How many people here forget that basketball is a business?

Everyone seems to be holding vendettas against Doc for maybe trying for something new. He has been here for awhile now, sometimes change is good.

Look at is this way. Even Gretzky was traded............

I agree 100%.  I like Doc as our coach.  But if he is burnt out here, or doesn't want in on the rebuild so be it.  It doesn't make Doc the son of satan, and it isn't the end of the Celtics.  We will find another coach, maybe not as good of a coach at least for a while.  But if DA is hitting the reboot button we don't need to pay someone $7 mil a year to be in the lotto.

There is so much extremism in people's views on this.  I mean you can like Doc as a coach, and not completely hate him for wanting to move on.  All the 'he stabbed us in the back' type comments and over the top emotional responses are just silly.  get a grip people.  The team was going to change significantly either way.

[Xepa]

RT @BA_Turner: Doc Rivers been informed Clippers won't accept Celtics offer. Rivers prepared to stay in Boston, sources.

I think the Clippers are right to reject this trade. Not worth consideration.

Boston asking for too much.

I disagree. I think their insecurity about Chris Paul leaving is what shot this deal down. If Paul was already on the books they would have pulled the trigger.

This move is about appeasing Paul.

For every Celtics fan here saying that...

As a Clippers season ticket holder, I can tell you that Clipper players and associated personnel are all pretty [dang] sure he's staying. He's told people in his circles that he's staying, and even Billups last week said on TV that he thinks Paul will be back. I can rattle off like 10+ sources that have said they're pretty sure he'll be back.

You're looking at this from a perspective of Paul's leaving if this deal doesn't go through. Invalid argument.

...as a Lakers fan, I'm 60% sure Dwight is leaving us to go to Houston. So if this was a hypothetical to appease Dwight, different situation as Laker fans feel that if something doesn't get done he'll leave. Not the same for Paul.

...and no one takes the Atlanta situation seriously. CP3/Dwight aren't going to team up there. SAS and other have said that and CP3 loves LA too much.

...just bringing in outside world opinions to this forum. That is all.

From the Celtics side...is DeAndre Jordan and low first rounders better than cap space? What's your track record in attracting big FAs? Not great. I'd do the deal, trade Rondo and Green for picks, then let Jordan be the tank commander for a Wiggins campaign. League requires 90% of salary cap for a roster, and Jordan fills those league requirements well.

[Xepa]

If the Cs can't pry Bledsoe from the Clips, they should strong arm them into taking Bass and Terry or Lee off their hands. 

KG, Bass and Lee for Jordan and expiring Caron Butler. 

Doc for two number one picks.

I'd take Terry happily.