Revisiting the Perk for Green trade......

[bfrombleacher]

Perk would have turned Wade into a bag of fine scumbag dust.

[Moranis]

I 'm a Perk fan , but he was worthless last night against Houston.  Fab Melo could actually done more I believe.  Perk moved like he is 95 years old.

If we had just kept Perk the rest of that year , then traded I'd been more happy.

Water under the bridge now and better off with Green.


OKC had kept Green and Hardin , they would be unstoppable .

Uhm, there is a reason OKC and their frontline was consistently getting destroyed. The year Perkins came, Thunder went to WCF, next year they went straight to the finals where Scott Brooks completely demolished the point and the use of having a big man and this year they were supposed to go straight to the finals again until Westbrook went down.

Before Perkins, they were consistently a first or second round exit team.

That had almost nothing to do with Perkins, it was the continued development of Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka.

  The main reason they made the trade was to bring in a center so they could play Ibaka at pf with a center instead of playing Ibaka at center and Green at pf. That wasn't working out very well for them.

Um.  Nenad Krstic was the starting center for that team.  They started Green over Ibaka at PF.  The problem wasn't needing a center, it was that they were playing Jeff Green far too many minutes at PF, a position he is weak at.  They should have had Krstic and Ibaka join KD, Russ, and Sefo in the starting lineup and had Green come off the bench along with Collison and Harden for a top tier 8 man rotation (with Cook, Nazr, and Maynor the next 3).  The lineup would have functioned much better.  It was quite simply a poor coaching job.  Presti made the trade so that Brooks wouldn't have as many options and couldn't continue to screw up the lineup and rotation.

[Kane3387]

Uh, yeah.

Right.

Can't beat the entertainment on this board.

And the conflation continues ... Keep trying to delude yourselves that Sam Presti didn't get absolutely destroyed in this deal.

 

You're joking, right?

Continued development for Ibaka was the reason OKC traded Green. That's why Presti wouldn't bite on Harden--who wouldn't have helped them clear up their frontcourt.

Harden was only in his second season and still had a couple more years on his rookie deal. Green was in the last year of his rookie deal and up for an extension.

[BballTim]

I 'm a Perk fan , but he was worthless last night against Houston.  Fab Melo could actually done more I believe.  Perk moved like he is 95 years old.

If we had just kept Perk the rest of that year , then traded I'd been more happy.

Water under the bridge now and better off with Green.


OKC had kept Green and Hardin , they would be unstoppable .

Uhm, there is a reason OKC and their frontline was consistently getting destroyed. The year Perkins came, Thunder went to WCF, next year they went straight to the finals where Scott Brooks completely demolished the point and the use of having a big man and this year they were supposed to go straight to the finals again until Westbrook went down.

Before Perkins, they were consistently a first or second round exit team.

That had almost nothing to do with Perkins, it was the continued development of Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka.

  The main reason they made the trade was to bring in a center so they could play Ibaka at pf with a center instead of playing Ibaka at center and Green at pf. That wasn't working out very well for them.

Um.  Nenad Krstic was the starting center for that team.  They started Green over Ibaka at PF.  The problem wasn't needing a center, it was that they were playing Jeff Green far too many minutes at PF, a position he is weak at.  They should have had Krstic and Ibaka join KD, Russ, and Sefo in the starting lineup and had Green come off the bench along with Collison and Harden for a top tier 8 man rotation (with Cook, Nazr, and Maynor the next 3).  The lineup would have functioned much better.  It was quite simply a poor coaching job.  Presti made the trade so that Brooks wouldn't have as many options and couldn't continue to screw up the lineup and rotation.

  http://www.82games.com/1011/10OKC11.HTM

  2 of Ibaka's top 4 lineups were an Ibaka/Green pf/c combo. Ibaka played about 30% of his minutes at c that year and the Thunder's net48 was +6 with Ibaka at pf and -3 with Ibaka at c. People aren't making this up.

[Moranis]

I 'm a Perk fan , but he was worthless last night against Houston.  Fab Melo could actually done more I believe.  Perk moved like he is 95 years old.

If we had just kept Perk the rest of that year , then traded I'd been more happy.

Water under the bridge now and better off with Green.


OKC had kept Green and Hardin , they would be unstoppable .

Uhm, there is a reason OKC and their frontline was consistently getting destroyed. The year Perkins came, Thunder went to WCF, next year they went straight to the finals where Scott Brooks completely demolished the point and the use of having a big man and this year they were supposed to go straight to the finals again until Westbrook went down.

Before Perkins, they were consistently a first or second round exit team.

That had almost nothing to do with Perkins, it was the continued development of Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka.

  The main reason they made the trade was to bring in a center so they could play Ibaka at pf with a center instead of playing Ibaka at center and Green at pf. That wasn't working out very well for them.

Um.  Nenad Krstic was the starting center for that team.  They started Green over Ibaka at PF.  The problem wasn't needing a center, it was that they were playing Jeff Green far too many minutes at PF, a position he is weak at.  They should have had Krstic and Ibaka join KD, Russ, and Sefo in the starting lineup and had Green come off the bench along with Collison and Harden for a top tier 8 man rotation (with Cook, Nazr, and Maynor the next 3).  The lineup would have functioned much better.  It was quite simply a poor coaching job.  Presti made the trade so that Brooks wouldn't have as many options and couldn't continue to screw up the lineup and rotation.

  http://www.82games.com/1011/10OKC11.HTM

  2 of Ibaka's top 4 lineups were an Ibaka/Green pf/c combo. Ibaka played about 30% of his minutes at c that year and the Thunder's net48 was +6 with Ibaka at pf and -3 with Ibaka at c. People aren't making this up.

That has nothing to do with my point.  My point was Brooks was playing Green far too many minutes at PF.  In fact, Green had the second most minutes on the team and the vast majority of those were at PF. 

Brooks was incapable of setting up the rotations correctly.  He didn't play his starting center, Krstic, enough minutes.  He played Green way too many minutes and most of those he was out of position.

Had Brooks gone with something like this from his SF/PF/C position, Presti wouldn't have felt the need to make the trade:

C - Krstic 32/Ibaka 8/Nazr, Collison, or one of the young guys the rest
PF - Ibaka 24/Green 14/Collison 10
SF - Durant 38/Green 10

They also had Mullens in his 2nd year and Aldrich in his 1st year on the team, both more than capable of playing center during the regular season (you just drop them out of the rotation in the playoffs).  The problem was Green was getting way too many out of position minutes at PF and should never have been starting at PF (Green would have been much better against back-up PF's).

[kozlodoev]

Brooks was incapable of setting up the rotations correctly.  He didn't play his starting center, Krstic, enough minutes.  He played Green way too many minutes and most of those he was out of position.

Had Brooks gone with something like this from his SF/PF/C position, Presti wouldn't have felt the need to make the trade:

C - Krstic 32/Ibaka 8/Nazr, Collison, or one of the young guys the rest
PF - Ibaka 24/Green 14/Collison 10
SF - Durant 38/Green 10

I'll go out on a limb here and say that Brooks didn't play Krsitic for 32 minutes while limiting Green to 24 and Collison to 18 mostly because he wanted to win some games, maybe.

[Moranis]

Brooks was incapable of setting up the rotations correctly.  He didn't play his starting center, Krstic, enough minutes.  He played Green way too many minutes and most of those he was out of position.

Had Brooks gone with something like this from his SF/PF/C position, Presti wouldn't have felt the need to make the trade:

C - Krstic 32/Ibaka 8/Nazr, Collison, or one of the young guys the rest
PF - Ibaka 24/Green 14/Collison 10
SF - Durant 38/Green 10

I'll go out on a limb here and say that Brooks didn't play Krsitic for 32 minutes while limiting Green to 24 and Collison to 18 mostly because he wanted to win some games, maybe.

Green has never been that good.  To win games, his minutes need to be reduced.  And Collison played 21.5 minutes that season (in the playoffs he was 24.5).  I actually reduced his minutes (which were less than 18 as I figured Nazr & the young guys would have picked up at least a couple minutes a game at center).  I bumped Ibaka up 5 and Krstic up 10 minutes a game, which is what reduced Green's minutes.  Krstic was a much better rebounder and much more efficient player than Green was.  He should have been playing more minutes than him.  You see, the whole problem with OKC that year was Brooks, and frankly it is still their problem.  Brooks quite simply isn't a very good coach.   

[kozlodoev]

Brooks was incapable of setting up the rotations correctly.  He didn't play his starting center, Krstic, enough minutes.  He played Green way too many minutes and most of those he was out of position.

Had Brooks gone with something like this from his SF/PF/C position, Presti wouldn't have felt the need to make the trade:

C - Krstic 32/Ibaka 8/Nazr, Collison, or one of the young guys the rest
PF - Ibaka 24/Green 14/Collison 10
SF - Durant 38/Green 10

I'll go out on a limb here and say that Brooks didn't play Krsitic for 32 minutes while limiting Green to 24 and Collison to 18 mostly because he wanted to win some games, maybe.

Green has never been that good.  To win games, his minutes need to be reduced.  And Collison played 21.5 minutes that season (in the playoffs he was 24.5).  I actually reduced his minutes (which were less than 18 as I figured Nazr & the young guys would have picked up at least a couple minutes a game at center).  I bumped Ibaka up 5 and Krstic up 10 minutes a game, which is what reduced Green's minutes.  Krstic was a much better rebounder and much more efficient player than Green was.  He should have been playing more minutes than him.  You see, the whole problem with OKC that year was Brooks, and frankly it is still their problem.  Brooks quite simply isn't a very good coach.

As bad as you may think Green was at that point, he was still exponentially better than the Krstic OKC got.

[Moranis]

Brooks was incapable of setting up the rotations correctly.  He didn't play his starting center, Krstic, enough minutes.  He played Green way too many minutes and most of those he was out of position.

Had Brooks gone with something like this from his SF/PF/C position, Presti wouldn't have felt the need to make the trade:

C - Krstic 32/Ibaka 8/Nazr, Collison, or one of the young guys the rest
PF - Ibaka 24/Green 14/Collison 10
SF - Durant 38/Green 10

I'll go out on a limb here and say that Brooks didn't play Krsitic for 32 minutes while limiting Green to 24 and Collison to 18 mostly because he wanted to win some games, maybe.

Green has never been that good.  To win games, his minutes need to be reduced.  And Collison played 21.5 minutes that season (in the playoffs he was 24.5).  I actually reduced his minutes (which were less than 18 as I figured Nazr & the young guys would have picked up at least a couple minutes a game at center).  I bumped Ibaka up 5 and Krstic up 10 minutes a game, which is what reduced Green's minutes.  Krstic was a much better rebounder and much more efficient player than Green was.  He should have been playing more minutes than him.  You see, the whole problem with OKC that year was Brooks, and frankly it is still their problem.  Brooks quite simply isn't a very good coach.

As bad as you may think Green was at that point, he was still exponentially better than the Krstic OKC got.

Per 36 numbers for 10-11 OKC stats

Krstic - 12.6 p, 7.3 r, .7 a, .6 s, .6 b, 1.2 t, 3.8 f - 49.8% FG, 80.3% FT

not a whole lot different than Green

Green - 14.8 p, 5.4 r, 1.8 a, .8 s, .4 b, 1.5 t, 2.8 f - 43.7% FG, 30.4% 3PT, 81.8% FT

I mean the simple truth is, Brooks played Green far too many minutes and did so at a position that wasn't nearly as conducive to winning.

[kozlodoev]

It's an interesting position, given that the Celtics have played Green on everything from SG to PF this season, so they're pulling a Scott Brooks and then some.

Also, I can't see how a center who pulls 7.5 rebounds and blocks less than a shot in 36 minutes, and shoots less than .500 from the floor while not taking many jump shots (these are all EXTREMELY poor numbers for a player who really has no outside skills to speak of) compares favorably to a wing player who scores more, can stretch the floor with his shot and take people off the dribble.

[Roy H.]

The trade worked from OKC's perspective because it gave the Thunder a strong defensive big man who can defend the paint, allowing Ibaka to "roam" defensively.  I think they'd make the same trade ten times out of ten, because it brought much better balance to their lineups.  A defensive anchor was much more important than a perimeter scorer.

[BballTim]

I 'm a Perk fan , but he was worthless last night against Houston.  Fab Melo could actually done more I believe.  Perk moved like he is 95 years old.

If we had just kept Perk the rest of that year , then traded I'd been more happy.

Water under the bridge now and better off with Green.


OKC had kept Green and Hardin , they would be unstoppable .

Uhm, there is a reason OKC and their frontline was consistently getting destroyed. The year Perkins came, Thunder went to WCF, next year they went straight to the finals where Scott Brooks completely demolished the point and the use of having a big man and this year they were supposed to go straight to the finals again until Westbrook went down.

Before Perkins, they were consistently a first or second round exit team.

That had almost nothing to do with Perkins, it was the continued development of Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka.

  The main reason they made the trade was to bring in a center so they could play Ibaka at pf with a center instead of playing Ibaka at center and Green at pf. That wasn't working out very well for them.

Um.  Nenad Krstic was the starting center for that team.  They started Green over Ibaka at PF.  The problem wasn't needing a center, it was that they were playing Jeff Green far too many minutes at PF, a position he is weak at.  They should have had Krstic and Ibaka join KD, Russ, and Sefo in the starting lineup and had Green come off the bench along with Collison and Harden for a top tier 8 man rotation (with Cook, Nazr, and Maynor the next 3).  The lineup would have functioned much better.  It was quite simply a poor coaching job.  Presti made the trade so that Brooks wouldn't have as many options and couldn't continue to screw up the lineup and rotation.

  http://www.82games.com/1011/10OKC11.HTM

  2 of Ibaka's top 4 lineups were an Ibaka/Green pf/c combo. Ibaka played about 30% of his minutes at c that year and the Thunder's net48 was +6 with Ibaka at pf and -3 with Ibaka at c. People aren't making this up.

That has nothing to do with my point.  My point was Brooks was playing Green far too many minutes at PF.  In fact, Green had the second most minutes on the team and the vast majority of those were at PF. 

Brooks was incapable of setting up the rotations correctly.  He didn't play his starting center, Krstic, enough minutes.  He played Green way too many minutes and most of those he was out of position.

Had Brooks gone with something like this from his SF/PF/C position, Presti wouldn't have felt the need to make the trade:

C - Krstic 32/Ibaka 8/Nazr, Collison, or one of the young guys the rest
PF - Ibaka 24/Green 14/Collison 10
SF - Durant 38/Green 10

They also had Mullens in his 2nd year and Aldrich in his 1st year on the team, both more than capable of playing center during the regular season (you just drop them out of the rotation in the playoffs).  The problem was Green was getting way too many out of position minutes at PF and should never have been starting at PF (Green would have been much better against back-up PF's).

  You've still got Ibaka playing center because you've still got a logjam at forward. Krstic doesn't give them the things they wanted from Perk starting with defense, toughness and championship experience.

[alley oop]

Maybe some people believe the argument that Dirty Dwyane wouldn't have the stones to injure Rondo if he had fear of retribution from Perk.

Some do, and they're right.

[gpap]

The trade appears as senseless now as it did back in 2011.

We got outrebounded by the Knicks tonight.

We sure could've used another big like Perk.

Jeff Green is talented, but the trade just didn't make any sense then and makes even less sense now.

It's almost like our 2008 championship team was slowly but surely dismantled in the last 6 years, minus Pierce, KG and Rondo.

[gpap]

Maybe some people believe the argument that Dirty Dwyane wouldn't have the stones to injure Rondo if he had fear of retribution from Perk.

Some do, and they're right.

I absolutely agree with this. I still believe to this day we would've beaten Miami in 2011 with Perk.