Fire Doc

[Spicoli]

He might as well play Pierce at point guard. That would make more sense than what he's currently doing.

If you compare how much Pierce handles the ball compared to Bradley, you'll find that he is playing Pierce at PG.

He just has Bradley bring up the ball much of the time, that's a choice based on perserving energy of veterans. You'll notice they also throw ahead to Pierce/Green/Bradley to bring it up depending on who's free or waiting for the ball.

Doc isn't using Bradley as a full time PG on offense, he's starting because of his defense at that position.

Bradley isn't playing the defense we're used to seeing. Felton is destroying him, and when Smith plays he is going off as well. So if Bradley is only playing point guard part time, and is not defending well at all, why is the coach starting him? Why can't the coach recognize that Bradley is failing big time in the starting lineup?

[LooseCannon]

Why can't the coach recognize that Bradley is failing big time in the starting lineup?

It's likely that Doc is very aware that Bradley is struggling, yet feels that his other options are even worse.  That might not be right, but it is reasonable enough that I can accept that a good coach would believe that.

[Fafnir]

He might as well play Pierce at point guard. That would make more sense than what he's currently doing.

If you compare how much Pierce handles the ball compared to Bradley, you'll find that he is playing Pierce at PG.

He just has Bradley bring up the ball much of the time, that's a choice based on perserving energy of veterans. You'll notice they also throw ahead to Pierce/Green/Bradley to bring it up depending on who's free or waiting for the ball.

Doc isn't using Bradley as a full time PG on offense, he's starting because of his defense at that position.

Bradley isn't playing the defense we're used to seeing. Felton is destroying him, and when Smith plays he is going off as well. So if Bradley is only playing point guard part time, and is not defending well at all, why is the coach starting him? Why can't the coach recognize that Bradley is failing big time in the starting lineup?

The C's defenese has done a good job on the Knicks, and Bradley is a big part of that.

The C's aren't helping him much and the 4 shooters and a big makes it very tough to stop the high screen and roll when you are not coming off shooters.

[Fafnir]

Why can't the coach recognize that Bradley is failing big time in the starting lineup?

It's likely that Doc is very aware that Bradley is struggling, yet feels that his other options are even worse.  That might not be right, but it is reasonable enough that I can accept that a good coach would believe that.

Terry/Lee are the other options defensively and they've faired far worse than Bradley against both Smith and Felton.

[Pucaccia]

I can't imagine anyone watching the Celts and thinking that they are well coached. No adjustments and a look of "dear in the head lights" on both ends of the floor.
Woodson is owning Doc. Pierce posting up 18 feet out looks pretty easy to defend to me. When they went on the post Rondo run, they moved the ball. It was very simple and hard to cover. In the playoffs, they are very predictable. I like Doc, but he is not a good coach.

  You could pretty much divide the board into two groups after Rondo's injury, the group that was gushing over our offense and the group that told them to wait until the playoffs when teams try harder on defense and the pace of the game is much slower.I'm guessing you were in the first group.

I would agree with your premise of the two groups, but it is only valid if the same line up and rotation were being judged. The group that played immediately post Rondo did well. It is not the same line up or rotations that is in the playoffs. You can't compare them. My premise is, Doc should have immediately went the the older line up and rotation. It worked very well. The "wait til the playoffs" opinion doesn't apply because it's not the same team. Right now, Doc has a bunch of players that are not use to playing with each other.

[nostar]

Doc isn't a "you're not playing well so you're sitting" kind of coach. He's a player's coach. He lets his guys (at least the core) play through slumps because that builds a relationship of trust. I was screaming all series that he should pull Pierce. Dude has had the worst case of butterfingers I've ever seen. I'm tempted to call sabotage. Someone is getting him popcorn pre-game or something.

[BballTim]

I can't imagine anyone watching the Celts and thinking that they are well coached. No adjustments and a look of "dear in the head lights" on both ends of the floor.
Woodson is owning Doc. Pierce posting up 18 feet out looks pretty easy to defend to me. When they went on the post Rondo run, they moved the ball. It was very simple and hard to cover. In the playoffs, they are very predictable. I like Doc, but he is not a good coach.

  You could pretty much divide the board into two groups after Rondo's injury, the group that was gushing over our offense and the group that told them to wait until the playoffs when teams try harder on defense and the pace of the game is much slower.I'm guessing you were in the first group.

I would agree with your premise of the two groups, but it is only valid if the same line up and rotation were being judged. The group that played immediately post Rondo did well. It is not the same line up or rotations that is in the playoffs. You can't compare them. My premise is, Doc should have immediately went the the older line up and rotation. It worked very well. The "wait til the playoffs" opinion doesn't apply because it's not the same team. Right now, Doc has a bunch of players that are not use to playing with each other.

  When the playoffs roll around the opponents generally try and take better care of the ball and hustle back on defense. Those two changes negate the main thing we were successful at after Rondo left. The team struggling on offense was very predictable. Doc talked about it, Danny talked about it, even Wyc talked about it during one of the games. It's not rocket science. And there's no way you can say that Doc's playing a bunch of players that aren't used to playing with each other. The bulk of the playoff minutes are going to players (KG, Bass, Green, PP, Bradley, Jet) who were 2nd through 7th in mpg behind Rondo this year.

[Pucaccia]

I can't imagine anyone watching the Celts and thinking that they are well coached. No adjustments and a look of "dear in the head lights" on both ends of the floor.
Woodson is owning Doc. Pierce posting up 18 feet out looks pretty easy to defend to me. When they went on the post Rondo run, they moved the ball. It was very simple and hard to cover. In the playoffs, they are very predictable. I like Doc, but he is not a good coach.

  You could pretty much divide the board into two groups after Rondo's injury, the group that was gushing over our offense and the group that told them to wait until the playoffs when teams try harder on defense and the pace of the game is much slower.I'm guessing you were in the first group.

I would agree with your premise of the two groups, but it is only valid if the same line up and rotation were being judged. The group that played immediately post Rondo did well. It is not the same line up or rotations that is in the playoffs. You can't compare them. My premise is, Doc should have immediately went the the older line up and rotation. It worked very well. The "wait til the playoffs" opinion doesn't apply because it's not the same team. Right now, Doc has a bunch of players that are not use to playing with each other.

  When the playoffs roll around the opponents generally try and take better care of the ball and hustle back on defense. Those two changes negate the main thing we were successful at after Rondo left. The team struggling on offense was very predictable. Doc talked about it, Danny talked about it, even Wyc talked about it during one of the games. It's not rocket science. And there's no way you can say that Doc's playing a bunch of players that aren't used to playing with each other. The bulk of the playoff minutes are going to players (KG, Bass, Green, PP, Bradley, Jet) who were 2nd through 7th in mpg behind Rondo this year.

That's not true. My point is the original post Rondo rotation played great. The beat Miami, Indiana,Denver, Chicago. How do you know they would have the same trouble? Doc changed what was working.

[Fafnir]

I can't imagine anyone watching the Celts and thinking that they are well coached. No adjustments and a look of "dear in the head lights" on both ends of the floor.
Woodson is owning Doc. Pierce posting up 18 feet out looks pretty easy to defend to me. When they went on the post Rondo run, they moved the ball. It was very simple and hard to cover. In the playoffs, they are very predictable. I like Doc, but he is not a good coach.

  You could pretty much divide the board into two groups after Rondo's injury, the group that was gushing over our offense and the group that told them to wait until the playoffs when teams try harder on defense and the pace of the game is much slower.I'm guessing you were in the first group.

I would agree with your premise of the two groups, but it is only valid if the same line up and rotation were being judged. The group that played immediately post Rondo did well. It is not the same line up or rotations that is in the playoffs. You can't compare them. My premise is, Doc should have immediately went the the older line up and rotation. It worked very well. The "wait til the playoffs" opinion doesn't apply because it's not the same team. Right now, Doc has a bunch of players that are not use to playing with each other.

  When the playoffs roll around the opponents generally try and take better care of the ball and hustle back on defense. Those two changes negate the main thing we were successful at after Rondo left. The team struggling on offense was very predictable. Doc talked about it, Danny talked about it, even Wyc talked about it during one of the games. It's not rocket science. And there's no way you can say that Doc's playing a bunch of players that aren't used to playing with each other. The bulk of the playoff minutes are going to players (KG, Bass, Green, PP, Bradley, Jet) who were 2nd through 7th in mpg behind Rondo this year.

That's not true. My point is the original post Rondo rotation played great. The beat Miami, Indiana,Denver, Chicago. How do you know they would have the same trouble? Doc changed what was working.

No he didn't he had the same rotation and they regressed to roughly a .500 basketball team after a very good initial stretch of ball. (which coincided with a home heavy schedule and a number of weak defenses)

Only after Jeff Green began to put up bigger numbers as KG sat and the team struggled overall did he change the rotation up.

[Pucaccia]

I can't imagine anyone watching the Celts and thinking that they are well coached. No adjustments and a look of "dear in the head lights" on both ends of the floor.
Woodson is owning Doc. Pierce posting up 18 feet out looks pretty easy to defend to me. When they went on the post Rondo run, they moved the ball. It was very simple and hard to cover. In the playoffs, they are very predictable. I like Doc, but he is not a good coach.

  You could pretty much divide the board into two groups after Rondo's injury, the group that was gushing over our offense and the group that told them to wait until the playoffs when teams try harder on defense and the pace of the game is much slower.I'm guessing you were in the first group.

I would agree with your premise of the two groups, but it is only valid if the same line up and rotation were being judged. The group that played immediately post Rondo did well. It is not the same line up or rotations that is in the playoffs. You can't compare them. My premise is, Doc should have immediately went the the older line up and rotation. It worked very well. The "wait til the playoffs" opinion doesn't apply because it's not the same team. Right now, Doc has a bunch of players that are not use to playing with each other.

  When the playoffs roll around the opponents generally try and take better care of the ball and hustle back on defense. Those two changes negate the main thing we were successful at after Rondo left. The team struggling on offense was very predictable. Doc talked about it, Danny talked about it, even Wyc talked about it during one of the games. It's not rocket science. And there's no way you can say that Doc's playing a bunch of players that aren't used to playing with each other. The bulk of the playoff minutes are going to players (KG, Bass, Green, PP, Bradley, Jet) who were 2nd through 7th in mpg behind Rondo this year.

That's not true. My point is the original post Rondo rotation played great. The beat Miami, Indiana,Denver, Chicago. How do you know they would have the same trouble? Doc changed what was working.

No he didn't he had the same rotation and they regressed to roughly a .500 basketball team after a very good initial stretch of ball. (which coincided with a home heavy schedule and a number of weak defenses)

Only after Jeff Green began to put up bigger numbers as KG sat and the team struggled overall did he change the rotation up.

That's not true.
After Rondo got hurt. The starting line up was Lee, AB, Bass, Pierce, KG. The Bench was Green, Wilcox, Jet and Barbosa.  They went on a 15-6 run(+/-). KG and Lee got hurt. Which change the line up to AB, Pierce, Green, Bass, and whoever in the middle. That's what made them go sub 500. When Lee came back he got demoted. When KG came back, Doc changed to AB, Pierce at the 2, Green, KG and Bass.(They had 2 games together(Maybe). I admit, at first I liked the potential, but I feel Doc should have gone back to the original post Rondo rotation. As I said, they went on a run in which they beat Miami, Indiana, Chicago, Denver.

[dysgenic]

People forget that in 2010 even without Perk, if we rebound better, we win that series.  A lot of that is on Doc.
This year he has gotten almost nothing out of 2 guys that I personally think can play in this league: Wilcox and Lee.  And he has always been a poor offensive coach.

That being said, on the emotional side of things, he is very good.  I have mixed feelings, but net net I think it's time to move on from Doc.   

[CoachBo]

We have one of these threads every month ... from the same OP.

Doc is an excellent coach and he's not getting fired ... get used to it.

It might be a good idea to widen your perspective a bit if you think coaching is the problem with this team.

*sigh*

This.

*sigh*

[BballTim]

I can't imagine anyone watching the Celts and thinking that they are well coached. No adjustments and a look of "dear in the head lights" on both ends of the floor.
Woodson is owning Doc. Pierce posting up 18 feet out looks pretty easy to defend to me. When they went on the post Rondo run, they moved the ball. It was very simple and hard to cover. In the playoffs, they are very predictable. I like Doc, but he is not a good coach.

  You could pretty much divide the board into two groups after Rondo's injury, the group that was gushing over our offense and the group that told them to wait until the playoffs when teams try harder on defense and the pace of the game is much slower.I'm guessing you were in the first group.

I would agree with your premise of the two groups, but it is only valid if the same line up and rotation were being judged. The group that played immediately post Rondo did well. It is not the same line up or rotations that is in the playoffs. You can't compare them. My premise is, Doc should have immediately went the the older line up and rotation. It worked very well. The "wait til the playoffs" opinion doesn't apply because it's not the same team. Right now, Doc has a bunch of players that are not use to playing with each other.

  When the playoffs roll around the opponents generally try and take better care of the ball and hustle back on defense. Those two changes negate the main thing we were successful at after Rondo left. The team struggling on offense was very predictable. Doc talked about it, Danny talked about it, even Wyc talked about it during one of the games. It's not rocket science. And there's no way you can say that Doc's playing a bunch of players that aren't used to playing with each other. The bulk of the playoff minutes are going to players (KG, Bass, Green, PP, Bradley, Jet) who were 2nd through 7th in mpg behind Rondo this year.

That's not true. My point is the original post Rondo rotation played great. The beat Miami, Indiana,Denver, Chicago. How do you know they would have the same trouble? Doc changed what was working.

No he didn't he had the same rotation and they regressed to roughly a .500 basketball team after a very good initial stretch of ball. (which coincided with a home heavy schedule and a number of weak defenses)

Only after Jeff Green began to put up bigger numbers as KG sat and the team struggled overall did he change the rotation up.

That's not true.
After Rondo got hurt. The starting line up was Lee, AB, Bass, Pierce, KG. The Bench was Green, Wilcox, Jet and Barbosa.  They went on a 15-6 run(+/-). KG and Lee got hurt. Which change the line up to AB, Pierce, Green, Bass, and whoever in the middle. That's what made them go sub 500. When Lee came back he got demoted. When KG came back, Doc changed to AB, Pierce at the 2, Green, KG and Bass.(They had 2 games together(Maybe). I admit, at first I liked the potential, but I feel Doc should have gone back to the original post Rondo rotation. As I said, they went on a run in which they beat Miami, Indiana, Chicago, Denver.

  Are you really watching our team struggle to score points at the level that they are and thinking "The best thing to do in this situation is to bench our leading scorer to give some minutes to the lowest scoring guard on our roster? Yikes.

  You talk about the win against Chicago, but they play playoff level defense all season long under Thibs and we were lucky to break 70 against them. It was a preview of things to come. Again, the Celtics *themselves* were saying they were going to have trouble executing their offense in the playoffs, people were just too excited about a few regular season wins without Rondo to pay any attention to that.

[BballTim]

He might as well play Pierce at point guard. That would make more sense than what he's currently doing.

If you compare how much Pierce handles the ball compared to Bradley, you'll find that he is playing Pierce at PG.

He just has Bradley bring up the ball much of the time, that's a choice based on perserving energy of veterans. You'll notice they also throw ahead to Pierce/Green/Bradley to bring it up depending on who's free or waiting for the ball.

Doc isn't using Bradley as a full time PG on offense, he's starting because of his defense at that position.

Bradley isn't playing the defense we're used to seeing. Felton is destroying him, and when Smith plays he is going off as well. So if Bradley is only playing point guard part time, and is not defending well at all, why is the coach starting him? Why can't the coach recognize that Bradley is failing big time in the starting lineup?

  One would assume that they recognize how Bradley's playing but they don't think that replacing him in the lineup will improve the situation. Has Lee been playing great ball lately? Are people positive he'd be doing a better job than AB? At best it's debatable.

[Pucaccia]

I can't imagine anyone watching the Celts and thinking that they are well coached. No adjustments and a look of "dear in the head lights" on both ends of the floor.
Woodson is owning Doc. Pierce posting up 18 feet out looks pretty easy to defend to me. When they went on the post Rondo run, they moved the ball. It was very simple and hard to cover. In the playoffs, they are very predictable. I like Doc, but he is not a good coach.

  You could pretty much divide the board into two groups after Rondo's injury, the group that was gushing over our offense and the group that told them to wait until the playoffs when teams try harder on defense and the pace of the game is much slower.I'm guessing you were in the first group.

I would agree with your premise of the two groups, but it is only valid if the same line up and rotation were being judged. The group that played immediately post Rondo did well. It is not the same line up or rotations that is in the playoffs. You can't compare them. My premise is, Doc should have immediately went the the older line up and rotation. It worked very well. The "wait til the playoffs" opinion doesn't apply because it's not the same team. Right now, Doc has a bunch of players that are not use to playing with each other.

  When the playoffs roll around the opponents generally try and take better care of the ball and hustle back on defense. Those two changes negate the main thing we were successful at after Rondo left. The team struggling on offense was very predictable. Doc talked about it, Danny talked about it, even Wyc talked about it during one of the games. It's not rocket science. And there's no way you can say that Doc's playing a bunch of players that aren't used to playing with each other. The bulk of the playoff minutes are going to players (KG, Bass, Green, PP, Bradley, Jet) who were 2nd through 7th in mpg behind Rondo this year.

That's not true. My point is the original post Rondo rotation played great. The beat Miami, Indiana,Denver, Chicago. How do you know they would have the same trouble? Doc changed what was working.

No he didn't he had the same rotation and they regressed to roughly a .500 basketball team after a very good initial stretch of ball. (which coincided with a home heavy schedule and a number of weak defenses)

Only after Jeff Green began to put up bigger numbers as KG sat and the team struggled overall did he change the rotation up.

That's not true.
After Rondo got hurt. The starting line up was Lee, AB, Bass, Pierce, KG. The Bench was Green, Wilcox, Jet and Barbosa.  They went on a 15-6 run(+/-). KG and Lee got hurt. Which change the line up to AB, Pierce, Green, Bass, and whoever in the middle. That's what made them go sub 500. When Lee came back he got demoted. When KG came back, Doc changed to AB, Pierce at the 2, Green, KG and Bass.(They had 2 games together(Maybe). I admit, at first I liked the potential, but I feel Doc should have gone back to the original post Rondo rotation. As I said, they went on a run in which they beat Miami, Indiana, Chicago, Denver.

  Are you really watching our team struggle to score points at the level that they are and thinking "The best thing to do in this situation is to bench our leading scorer to give some minutes to the lowest scoring guard on our roster? Yikes.

  You talk about the win against Chicago, but they play playoff level defense all season long under Thibs and we were lucky to break 70 against them. It was a preview of things to come. Again, the Celtics *themselves* were saying they were going to have trouble executing their offense in the playoffs, people were just too excited about a few regular season wins without Rondo to pay any attention to that.

The Celtics still won and played better with that line up. Score board matters. We could go back and forth which is a waste for me. Let me ask you straight up. Is Doc doing a good job coaching in the playoffs. Yes or No?