Would you rather have Rondo or Sullinger back right now?

[wahz]

Playoff Rondo gives us a real chance of winning 16 games. Without him we need a miracle...and we are so overdue
 on good luck


Next question.

[go11celtics]

Rajon Rondo is:

1. A veteran with nearly 100 playoff games, including 2 finals and one championship, under his belt;
2. A player who has consistently elevated his game in the postseason, in nearly every aspect of the game;
3. The only clear matchup advantage we have at any position vs. the Heat;
4. Someone who has a proven ability to take over and win a playoff game by himself.

Sullinger is none of those things. He has half a year of NBA experience in which he has proven that when healthy he is a capable NBA big man. He averaged 7 ppg and 7 rpg in 23mpg in his last month of NBA hoops. These are average numbers for a quality backup PF/C. He has not proven that he is a clutch performer, either in the regular season or the playoffs.

Do Rondo's 40 games at the beginning of this year prove that he had regressed? Maybe - but maybe not, we've seen him go through slumps before. And he has always elevated his game in the playoffs. In fact his playoff numbers last year were his best ever by most metrics.

The discussion about whether we were better or worse without Rondo is completely empty. The sample size is too small. Too many other players were moving in and out of the rotation. It is a noisy, apples-to-oranges comparison in which one learns nothing of value.

So, the best evidence we have to go on is the longer history. Rondo's playoff history, and his unique advantages vs. many of the teams we fear most, are facts.

Sullinger has no history. In the absence of any history you have to ask what are the odds that Sully could elevate his game enough to be the best player on the floor for an extended part of or maybe an entire playoff series against one of the best teams in the NBA, as Rondo has done repeatedly. Heck, Sully never even established that he could stay on the floor as a rotation regular - in his last 14 games he fouled out of 6 and had 5 fouls in two others - in 23 minutes per game!

If anyone really thinks that the odds of Sully morphing into someone who could lead the Celtics through an NBA playoff series the way that Rondo has done, well then, you are entitled to that opinion. Just recognize that your opinion is contradicted by nearly all of the facts that we know about these players.

again hanging onto playoff rondo glory. Did rondo slump alot in 2008-2010 regular season? If i remember , he was actually playing his butt off every game, working with the big three. Those year teams rarely had a night off and were top of the east for a reason.

Regarding your sully point, its true. But its pretty impressive if you ask me, when a 1st year player gets to bulldoze his way into the lineup and make as significant impact as he did. His game was expanding the more he played. It is plausable to say, he would of been just as good in the playoffs, if not better. During college , especially sophmore year he was one of the key reasons why Ohio made it to the final four.

You say we hang on to playoff glory, then quote results from 2008-2010 that are inaccurate. We went through major slumps every year after 2008, and then turn it up in the playoffs. They were not playing their butts off when I went to see them lose to New Jersey ( i believe) at home. Literally even expert wrote them off, then they went to game 7 of the nba finals. Your memory needs to be refreshed my friend

My memory is clear. You need a refresher. They won 50 plus games and still obtained home court adv. Slumps or no slumps they played hard.

The celts were never a team that relied on talent alone, vs sharing the ball, always rotating properly on defense, etc.

Maybe you were unlucky to see a game where they had a night off.  But in general that was not the way they played. Rondo didn't play like that consistently.

And why would it be a shocker if a 4th seeded team went to the finals?? I don't remember the experts being surprised like they were last year when we made the ECF. We still had the talent plus won it all only two years ago

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/matchup/_/teams/celtics-cavaliers

If you flow this link you will see everyone picked the cavs. I think it's safe to say we shocked a lot of people outside of Boston.
If you take a look at the box scores: rondo game 1: 27pts, 12ast, 6rbs game 2: 13pts 19ast. Game 3: 18pts 8ast. Game 4: 29pts, 13 ast, 18 rbs. Game 5: 16pts 7ast. Game 6: 21pts 12ast 5 stl.

I'll take that guy.

[Bahku]

Rondo is a proven NBA Championship winner, and one of the top five PGs in the Association ... Sullinger is a great young player with what looks like great potential, (but is highly unproven, especially in the playoffs, which is a much different beast).

The answer is easily Rondo, and I think that should be obvious to most people who know this game at the pro level, (but I love what Sully has shown us to this point, and am very excited about his future with this team).

[ejk3489]

Rajon Rondo is:

1. A veteran with nearly 100 playoff games, including 2 finals and one championship, under his belt;
2. A player who has consistently elevated his game in the postseason, in nearly every aspect of the game;
3. The only clear matchup advantage we have at any position vs. the Heat;
4. Someone who has a proven ability to take over and win a playoff game by himself.

Sullinger is none of those things. He has half a year of NBA experience in which he has proven that when healthy he is a capable NBA big man. He averaged 7 ppg and 7 rpg in 23mpg in his last month of NBA hoops. These are average numbers for a quality backup PF/C. He has not proven that he is a clutch performer, either in the regular season or the playoffs.

Do Rondo's 40 games at the beginning of this year prove that he had regressed? Maybe - but maybe not, we've seen him go through slumps before. And he has always elevated his game in the playoffs. In fact his playoff numbers last year were his best ever by most metrics.

The discussion about whether we were better or worse without Rondo is completely empty. The sample size is too small. Too many other players were moving in and out of the rotation. It is a noisy, apples-to-oranges comparison in which one learns nothing of value.

So, the best evidence we have to go on is the longer history. Rondo's playoff history, and his unique advantages vs. many of the teams we fear most, are facts.

Sullinger has no history. In the absence of any history you have to ask what are the odds that Sully could elevate his game enough to be the best player on the floor for an extended part of or maybe an entire playoff series against one of the best teams in the NBA, as Rondo has done repeatedly. Heck, Sully never even established that he could stay on the floor as a rotation regular - in his last 14 games he fouled out of 6 and had 5 fouls in two others - in 23 minutes per game!

If anyone really thinks that the odds of Sully morphing into someone who could lead the Celtics through an NBA playoff series the way that Rondo has done, well then, you are entitled to that opinion. Just recognize that your opinion is contradicted by nearly all of the facts that we know about these players.

again hanging onto playoff rondo glory. Did rondo slump alot in 2008-2010 regular season? If i remember , he was actually playing his butt off every game, working with the big three. Those year teams rarely had a night off and were top of the east for a reason.

Regarding your sully point, its true. But its pretty impressive if you ask me, when a 1st year player gets to bulldoze his way into the lineup and make as significant impact as he did. His game was expanding the more he played. It is plausable to say, he would of been just as good in the playoffs, if not better. During college , especially sophmore year he was one of the key reasons why Ohio made it to the final four.

You say we hang on to playoff glory, then quote results from 2008-2010 that are inaccurate. We went through major slumps every year after 2008, and then turn it up in the playoffs. They were not playing their butts off when I went to see them lose to New Jersey ( i believe) at home. Literally even expert wrote them off, then they went to game 7 of the nba finals. Your memory needs to be refreshed my friend

My memory is clear. You need a refresher. They won 50 plus games and still obtained home court adv. Slumps or no slumps they played hard.

The celts were never a team that relied on talent alone, vs sharing the ball, always rotating properly on defense, etc.

Maybe you were unlucky to see a game where they had a night off.  But in general that was not the way they played. Rondo didn't play like that consistently.

And why would it be a shocker if a 4th seeded team went to the finals?? I don't remember the experts being surprised like they were last year when we made the ECF. We still had the talent plus won it all only two years ago

This is just flat out wrong. That 09-10 team that went to the finals was constantly criticized for their lackadaisical play in the regular season (Sheed anyone?), especially in the second half where they finished off with a 27-27 record.

No one from the panel of ESPN "experts" picked the Celtics to beat the Cavs in the 2nd round. Only two out of the 10 had us beating Orlando in the Conference Finals, and against the Lakers, it was 4 out of 10. And really, the majority of this blog (aside from the most optimistic posters) could've never predicted the complete beat down we gave Miami, Cleveland, and Orlando. 

[playdream]

until last year: Rondo for sure
this year's team: Sullinger, without a doubt
 Rondo just doesn't fit in the team

[T-LoDaniels]

i think the misconception here is slumps vs playing hard and the right way.

I don't care if Rondo went on slumps. Thats the last thing he went on alot earlier this year. He was putting up the stats. But the "playing hard, playing right" was not there.

If he played hard this year and was slumping, i wouldn't be so hard on him. I bet if he played hard/right and slumped, we would probably win more anyways

its incredible that a Rondo who was not the leader nor even in the top three in assist from 2008-2010 was part of a team that was more successful than a team of this year where he was the #1 assist guy. Back then, when a guy was free he passed it. The ball was moving around beautifully. Rondo usually ran the ball up the court. When a shot went up he would go after the rebound.  He was setting picks and doing all kinds of other activities. I guess now he thinks he is too good to do these little but important things

Anyways i will halt on the Rondo bashing bc i do have a smidge of optimism that after his injury, watching games and the team winning that next year he will change his ways back to his old self. But for now, using this seasons history/stats/team chemistry, i would choose Sully

So you're worried that Rondo won't play hard in the playoffs? This makes me question if you know anything at all about this guy. Have you forgotten how bad Pierce and Ray were in last year's playoffs? And yet we still got to the ECF only because Kevin Garnett and Rondo were 2 of the top 8 players in last year's playoffs. In the playoffs, EVERYONE plays hard.

Playoffs are decided by individual talent, defensive adjustments and matchups. No defense is perfect, so the opposition make adjustments to prioritize certain defensive matchups and give up another bad one. Rajon Rondo (along with Lebron and Chris Paul) is the best player in the league at manipulating and exploiting defenses. Look at last year's game 5 against the Heat. The Heat didn't have length to defend KG in the post so they fronted him almost every time, and Rondo totally destroyed them. That kind of genius is not something you forgo just because you didn't think he played hard enough for 40 regular season games.

[twistedrico14]

It would be ridiculous for anyone to say that they wouldn't Rondo back now or ever. He is one of the best point guards in the league and would win us some games without a doubt.  The Boston Celtics need him to win.   

[Juneauz]

I am so fed up of you people.
Really, I can't take it anymore.

Where have you been in the last 5 years??
Rondo DOMINATED playoffs games and played through injuries for this team more times than anyone else did. He's been an absolute beast and led the team to amazing performances that NO ONE believed were possible with this old team. Everybody else on the planet is talking about Rondo as a PLAYOFF MVP and we're here discussing if he's more valuable than a rookie who barely cracked the starting line-up?

I have to assume that I'm the oldest here, really, and a lot of you started following the Celtics this season.

[lightspeed5]

sullinger has a very bright future with us.

[Celtics4ever]

Rondo has won us a series before, Sully has not therefore I take Rondo.

[clover]

They need another quality big man more than another quality guard, but you'd be insane not to take Rondo for the playoffs.

[scaryjerry]

Cmon folks....just flat out lol@ choosing sully


can't even wrap my brain around this lunacy

[Celtics4ever]

haters will hate....


I think it's Sebastian Telfair just masquerading as posters for the RR hate.

[slamtheking]

Would you rather have Derrick Rose or Taj Gibson?

Tony Parker or DeJuan Blair?

Deron Williams or Kris Humphries?

And people say that some of us around her over value Rondo?  C'mon.  I like Sully, but this is insane.

Very different situations. The Celtics are one of the worst rebounding teams in the NBA. They aren't elite and they aren't deep (besides in the guard positions, which only helps Sully's case). DJ White and Randolph aren't playoff caliber role players. Also factor in chemistry.


We are like a car missing a tire. Rondo is like a premier engine, one of the best in the world. Sully is a tire in this case. You can replace the engine with this new premier engine, but a tire is what we need right now. We'll go fast with the premier tire, but the car had already been trucking along as is, even though it was constantly derailed by car injuries. A tire would help the car actually maintain levelness without the evil screeching noise that would/is being made.

a pretty apt analogy. 

we have a bigger hole in the front court than the backcourt right now so Sully would be of more help.  Rondo's by far the better player but we're getting by at the guard spot right now.  not so much in the front court

[SHAQATTACK]

Rather have the diva Rondo on another team with a decent big playing for the Celtics.  HAA!! not sure who really wants wants Rondo anymore .  SO we may be stuck with him. 

He is damaged mentally and physically now .  Maybe a high draft picks

Rondo needs to move on down the road and be a pain in the rear for somebody else.

Much rather have Sullinger .   Good kid who plays with heart .