Can we all agree Jeff Green is a number 3 scoring option at best?

[Galeto]

So you're saying that Terry is breaking people off the dribble?

Yes, he does.  How do you think he gets into the lane?  He's actually still pretty quick.  Finishing on the other hand is a different issue.

Or that he's not "right-hand dominant"?

Terry is a fine dribbler with his left hand.  It's getting his shot off when he goes left that he has a problem because he shoots the ball above his right ear and that combination is tricky.

Or that it's accidental that we would rather have Courtney Lee bring up the ball instead of Terry? (and even Jeff Green, Doc is on record saying that he likes pairing Jeff with the bench guards to give the bench "a ball handler").

When did Doc ever say that about Green?  He's also said on two occasions that Green might play as a point forward and that is both laughable and has never approached reality. I wouldn't take Doc's public comments too seriously.

On the other point, about Lee bringing the ball up, Bradley brings the ball up and you think he has a suspect handle.  Far be it for me to understand why the Celtics do what they do.  I just know that Terry handled the ball a lot with Dallas.  He's a good ballhandler.

And are you really comparing him with LeBron and Durant? Really? This way, you can find 90% of the NBA "suspect" in pretty much anything they do. 

Other players with Jeff Green's height: Udonis Haslem, Shane Battier, Metta World Peace, James Posey, Reggie Evans, David Lee, David West, Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, Brandon Bass, Glen Davis, Paul Milsap, Luis Scola, to name a few.

He's not simply a good ball handler considering his size, he probably goes into the premier category.

Why does it matter that Green has a better handle than Scola or Posey or guys listed his height?  For the kind of player Green is, an offensive one, who drives to the hoop, creates in isolation and so on, his handle does not help.  Because he lacks any dribble moves whatsoever, it impedes him.  You really think he has a premier handle because he dribbles better than some lowpost power forward who is just as tall?  Big deal.  Half the small forwards in the league are 6'8 and taller nowadays.  Judging by your standard, Luis Scola, Big Baby, Haslem, Battier, etc, the league is currently awash is premier ballhandling small forwards then.

Among Green's positional peers, his handle is very basic.

[snively]

Even his one go-to move - that dribble-drive - is something he gets off only because of his superior length and leaping ability

I get scared when he dribbles as he has a suspect handle.  Sometimes it simply goes off his foot.   I wanted to see him filling the lanes next to Rondo on the break.

He absolutely does not have suspect handle (even more so for a man his size). Avery Bradley has suspect handle (and Terry is pretty close to him in that regard, too).

You think Terry has a suspect handle?  Really?  The guy played a pretty credible point guard for many years of his career.  He is a fine ballhandler who can slip through little cracks on the dribble as well as dribble fullcourt without the ball slowing him down. 

I think Green's handle is pretty below-average.  For one it's very basic and right hand dominant.  Two, when he tries to speed up and break someone down, he is prone to losing the ball in a variety of ways.  For his height is irrelevant to me because there are guys his height like Lebron and Durant who handle the ball much better.  Carmelo is Green's height and not a great ballhandler either but I'd still consider him an appreciably better ballhandler.

So you're saying that Terry is breaking people off the dribble? Or that he's not "right-hand dominant"? Or that it's accidental that we would rather have Courtney Lee bring up the ball instead of Terry? (and even Jeff Green, Doc is on record saying that he likes pairing Jeff with the bench guards to give the bench "a ball handler").

And are you really comparing him with LeBron and Durant? Really? This way, you can find 90% of the NBA "suspect" in pretty much anything they do. 

Other players with Jeff Green's height: Udonis Haslem, Shane Battier, Metta World Peace, James Posey, Reggie Evans, David Lee, David West, Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, Brandon Bass, Glen Davis, Paul Milsap, Luis Scola, to name a few.

He's not simply a good ball handler considering his size, he probably goes into the premier category.

Green is a poor to mediocre ballhandler at the wing.  He is above average for a 4, but not "premiere."  Guys like Odom, Josh Smith and Diaw are much more accomplished ball-handlers than Green.

Green's limitation as a ball-handler is a major reason why he isn't as dangerous as say Rudy Gay offensively.  Much more limited as a shot creator than Gay.

[Celtics4ever]

can only imagine the level of critique for PP considering he loses it 3-4 times a game

PP has acted as Point Forward lately, I get your a Jeff Green fan, but PP is a better handler and passer than Jeff Green.   Consensus seems against you, keep trying, you may make a point at some point in this thread.

[celticsleyte]

In my opinion Jeff Green can be a good two way player at the three once PP is no longer starting for the C's.  I do not get the need to define him as a number whatever scoring option.  He can score enough with decent effeciency.  On nights he has a mismatch maybe he can go off.  I want the team to take advantage of matchups and share the ball.

[BASS_THUMPER]

he should green light from jump
green is the best playa we have right now

[kgainez]

Jeff played a great #2 today

oh and Pierce was a great #3...rofll


no but really. Jeff as #2 was really good

[bfrombleacher]

Even his one go-to move - that dribble-drive - is something he gets off only because of his superior length and leaping ability

I get scared when he dribbles as he has a suspect handle.  Sometimes it simply goes off his foot.   I wanted to see him filling the lanes next to Rondo on the break.

He absolutely does not have suspect handle (even more so for a man his size). Avery Bradley has suspect handle (and Terry is pretty close to him in that regard, too).

You think Terry has a suspect handle?  Really?  The guy played a pretty credible point guard for many years of his career.  He is a fine ballhandler who can slip through little cracks on the dribble as well as dribble fullcourt without the ball slowing him down. 

I think Green's handle is pretty below-average.  For one it's very basic and right hand dominant.  Two, when he tries to speed up and break someone down, he is prone to losing the ball in a variety of ways.  For his height is irrelevant to me because there are guys his height like Lebron and Durant who handle the ball much better.  Carmelo is Green's height and not a great ballhandler either but I'd still consider him an appreciably better ballhandler.

So you're saying that Terry is breaking people off the dribble? Or that he's not "right-hand dominant"? Or that it's accidental that we would rather have Courtney Lee bring up the ball instead of Terry? (and even Jeff Green, Doc is on record saying that he likes pairing Jeff with the bench guards to give the bench "a ball handler").

And are you really comparing him with LeBron and Durant? Really? This way, you can find 90% of the NBA "suspect" in pretty much anything they do. 

Other players with Jeff Green's height: Udonis Haslem, Shane Battier, Metta World Peace, James Posey, Reggie Evans, David Lee, David West, Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, Brandon Bass, Glen Davis, Paul Milsap, Luis Scola, to name a few.

He's not simply a good ball handler considering his size, he probably goes into the premier category.

Jeff Green might be 6'9 and a half. During timeouts when he stands next to KG and looking up pictures of him and Durant makes me think that.

Maybe there comes a point when you're so tall you just can't handle the basketball without getting stripped. Durant is pretty one of a kind like that. 6'10+ and gets anywhere he wants with the ball.

But Jeff Green's not an undersized PF, playing SF as a tweener. He's a PF playing SF. He is built thick like a PF (edit: not to mention his freakish athleticism). This, in my opinion, makes him quite scary even without amazing ballhandling.

No matter what he ends up being or what people think of him, I'm enjoying the show. This Jeff Green (with heart, with aggression not to mention a great story) is so fun to watch.

[gar]

I think you will see his finesse improve (driving and ball handling) after a full summer to work on his game. In college he was much smoother.

[Celtics18]

Even his one go-to move - that dribble-drive - is something he gets off only because of his superior length and leaping ability

I get scared when he dribbles as he has a suspect handle.  Sometimes it simply goes off his foot.   I wanted to see him filling the lanes next to Rondo on the break.

He absolutely does not have suspect handle (even more so for a man his size). Avery Bradley has suspect handle (and Terry is pretty close to him in that regard, too).

You think Terry has a suspect handle?  Really?  The guy played a pretty credible point guard for many years of his career.  He is a fine ballhandler who can slip through little cracks on the dribble as well as dribble fullcourt without the ball slowing him down. 

I think Green's handle is pretty below-average.  For one it's very basic and right hand dominant.  Two, when he tries to speed up and break someone down, he is prone to losing the ball in a variety of ways.  For his height is irrelevant to me because there are guys his height like Lebron and Durant who handle the ball much better.  Carmelo is Green's height and not a great ballhandler either but I'd still consider him an appreciably better ballhandler.

So you're saying that Terry is breaking people off the dribble? Or that he's not "right-hand dominant"? Or that it's accidental that we would rather have Courtney Lee bring up the ball instead of Terry? (and even Jeff Green, Doc is on record saying that he likes pairing Jeff with the bench guards to give the bench "a ball handler").

And are you really comparing him with LeBron and Durant? Really? This way, you can find 90% of the NBA "suspect" in pretty much anything they do. 

Other players with Jeff Green's height: Udonis Haslem, Shane Battier, Metta World Peace, James Posey, Reggie Evans, David Lee, David West, Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, Brandon Bass, Glen Davis, Paul Milsap, Luis Scola, to name a few.

He's not simply a good ball handler considering his size, he probably goes into the premier category.

Green is a poor to mediocre ballhandler at the wing.  He is above average for a 4, but not "premiere."  Guys like Odom, Josh Smith and Diaw are much more accomplished ball-handlers than Green.

Green's limitation as a ball-handler is a major reason why he isn't as dangerous as say Rudy Gay offensively.  Much more limited as a shot creator than Gay.

That's true, but I'm okay with that.  The league has been littered with very good players like that ever since I've been watching the game--Mation, Deng, Worthy, Gerald Wallace, Batum, Bobby Jones, early T-Mac, Pippen--, guys who aren't necessarily great players on their own, but are All Stars on a good team.

I know it's going to insult a few sensibility that I dare mention Jeff Green's name in the same breath as the names of some of those guys, but I'm not talking about levels of play.  I'm talking about style.

Luckily (and hopefully), he's got Rondo to create the shots.

[Big_Matt34]

I know it's going to insult a few sensibility that I dare mention Jeff Green's name in the same breath as the names of some of those guys

Putting his name with all of those players ia fine IMO, except Worthy and especially Pippen. Putting Pippens name with those players is the real insult. He is one of the 50 or so best players ever, arguably the best perimeter defender ever, GREAT passer, very good rebounder, and was a good scorer.

Ontop of all that, when MJ retired that first time Pippen was an MVP candidate.

[Celtics18]

I know it's going to insult a few sensibility that I dare mention Jeff Green's name in the same breath as the names of some of those guys

Putting his name with all of those players ia fine IMO, except Worthy and especially Pippen. Putting Pippens name with those players is the real insult. He is one of the 50 or so best players ever, arguably the best perimeter defender ever, GREAT passer, very good rebounder, and was a good scorer.

Ontop of all that, when MJ retired that first time Pippen was an MVP candidate.

Agreed about Pippen, but still he was never an elite shot creator.  He improved on that aspect of his game as he got older, but he was always better as a finisher, a defender, and all court type player.

That doesn't mean he wasn't a scorer.

[Galeto]

I know it's going to insult a few sensibility that I dare mention Jeff Green's name in the same breath as the names of some of those guys

Putting his name with all of those players ia fine IMO, except Worthy and especially Pippen. Putting Pippens name with those players is the real insult. He is one of the 50 or so best players ever, arguably the best perimeter defender ever, GREAT passer, very good rebounder, and was a good scorer.

Ontop of all that, when MJ retired that first time Pippen was an MVP candidate.

Agreed about Pippen, but still he was never an elite shot creator.  He improved on that aspect of his game as he got older, but he was always better as a finisher, a defender, and all court type player.

That doesn't mean he wasn't a scorer.

I dispute your take on Pippen's career progression.  By his third season he averaged 5.4 assists a game and his career best of 7 a game came in his fifth season.  He didn't improve as a shot creator as his career went ago; that aspect of his game was strong almost from the outset.  I've seen old Bulls games recently and he was a point forward.  He handled the ball as much as anybody on their team and a dynamic all-around force.  In the 1998 season, Pippen missed almost the first half of the season with an injury and that eventual championship Bulls team, even with a still great Jordan, was not a scary team.  After he returned, they went on a huge run and became the great Bulls team again.

[Celtics18]

I know it's going to insult a few sensibility that I dare mention Jeff Green's name in the same breath as the names of some of those guys

Putting his name with all of those players ia fine IMO, except Worthy and especially Pippen. Putting Pippens name with those players is the real insult. He is one of the 50 or so best players ever, arguably the best perimeter defender ever, GREAT passer, very good rebounder, and was a good scorer.

Ontop of all that, when MJ retired that first time Pippen was an MVP candidate.

Agreed about Pippen, but still he was never an elite shot creator.  He improved on that aspect of his game as he got older, but he was always better as a finisher, a defender, and all court type player.

That doesn't mean he wasn't a scorer.

I dispute your take on Pippen's career progression.  By his third season he averaged 5.4 assists a game and his career best of 7 a game came in his fifth season.  He didn't improve as a shot creator as his career went ago; that aspect of his game was strong almost from the outset.  I've seen old Bulls games recently and he was a point forward.  He handled the ball as much as anybody on their team and a dynamic all-around force.  In the 1998 season, Pippen missed almost the first half of the season with an injury and that eventual championship Bulls team, even with a still great Jordan, was not a scary team.  After he returned, they went on a huge run and became the great Bulls team again.

Yeah, Pippen was awesome.

[Galeto]

I loved what Pierce and Green did together in the fourth.  It was kind of like the Walker and Pierce dynamic of old but instead of Walker making sure Pierce got the ball in the post in the 4th quarter, it was Pierce doing that for Green, among other things.  Pierce did a lot of the other things, along with scoring 6 crucial points while he let Green go at his mismatch.  They're a good pairing.