2013 Patriots Football

[Cman]

While I agree with this, WAS Welker willing to sign for a bargain?  Maybe he would have a year earlier, before being franchised...and I will get on board with it being a mistake not to lock him up then.  But, I get the distinct impression that this past year, he was in a Ray Allen type situation.  Meaning, there was bad blood there, and he was going to have to get OVERPAID to return to the Pats.  Just because he signed a below-market value contract with Denver does not mean he would have with the Pats.

We can go back and forth all day until we are blue in the face about whether Welker would have done that or not for the Pats (I think not, but whatever).

I'm basing my opinion on reports that Welker gave the Pats a chance to match, but they declined to do so.

Wasn't this after the Pats signed Amendola (which was after Welkers agents had turned down a more lucrative offer from the Pats, forcing the Pats to look elsewhere)?

[kozlodoev]

I'm basing my opinion on reports that Welker gave the Pats a chance to match, but they declined to do so.

Didn't this "chance to match" come after they had signed Amendola?

edit: here's an article
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9069558/wes-welker-agency-says-new-england-patriots-made-take-leave-offer

[BleedGreen1989]

I'm basing my opinion on reports that Welker gave the Pats a chance to match, but they declined to do so.

Didn't this "chance to match" come after they had signed Amendola?

That was my understanding.

Honestly, the biggest blow to this offense IMO was Hernandez deciding to allegedly shoot somebody in the face. He was a top-5 TE and arguably a top-10 offensive player period who hadn't even entered his prime. He could line up all over the field and had obvious chemistry with Brady. I hate to rave about a man who may have murdered somebody, but losing him was an enormous blow to this offense.

With that, if Hernandez was still here and if Gronk was healthy I doubt this offense would skip a beat with Amendola in place of Welker.

[Roy H.]

With that, if Hernandez was still here and if Gronk was healthy I doubt this offense would skip a beat with Amendola in place of Welker.

I think you're underrating Welker.  The guy was catching 115 - 120 balls per year.  He was the biggest single part of the offense, and replacing him with lesser players would have stung no matter who else was on the team.

[Fafnir]

With that, if Hernandez was still here and if Gronk was healthy I doubt this offense would skip a beat with Amendola in place of Welker.

I think you're underrating Welker.  The guy was catching 115 - 120 balls per year.  He was the biggest single part of the offense, and replacing him with lesser players would have stung no matter who else was on the team.

I think Gronk was a bigger part when its all humming, just because he was a threat as a blocker in the running game along with his pass catching.

[Roy H.]

Wasn't this after the Pats signed Amendola (which was after Welkers agents had turned down a more lucrative offer from the Pats, forcing the Pats to look elsewhere)?

It was before Amendola signed, but I believe after the Pats had begun negotiations with him.

According to Welker's agents, the Pats gave him a low-ball take-it-or-leave it deal worth 2 years, $10 million, with incentives.

[Roy H.]

With that, if Hernandez was still here and if Gronk was healthy I doubt this offense would skip a beat with Amendola in place of Welker.

I think you're underrating Welker.  The guy was catching 115 - 120 balls per year.  He was the biggest single part of the offense, and replacing him with lesser players would have stung no matter who else was on the team.

I think Gronk was a bigger part when its all humming, just because he was a threat as a blocker in the running game along with his pass catching.

Gronk was a bigger big-play threat, but Welker was Brady's safety valve, the guy who moved the chains.

It was stupid to let him walk.

[kozlodoev]

Wasn't this after the Pats signed Amendola (which was after Welkers agents had turned down a more lucrative offer from the Pats, forcing the Pats to look elsewhere)?

It was before Amendola signed, but I believe after the Pats had begun negotiations with him.

According to Welker's agents, the Pats gave him a low-ball take-it-or-leave it deal worth 2 years, $10 million, with incentives.

Welker camp says the Pats offer ($10 million, incentives up to $16 million) was made to be non-negotiable on both dollars and structure). Pats camp (Kraft) says Welker came in too high ($24 million, 3 years), and Welker came back with a chance to match after they signed Amendola.

Ultimately, I guess we'll never know how it panned out. It's also worth noting that Welker made a ton of money playing with the franchise tag last season (pretty much double of what he's getting under his current contract).

[CelticG1]

Yeah I'd rather have welker than amendola right now 5 games into the season. Lets see at the end of the year. Lets see over the next few years though.

I loved welker and yeah he caught a ton of balls. Kinda similar to what edelmans been doing with absolutely no other weapons on offense.

I really don't get comparing these things apples to oranges at all. Fans obviously are flakey pretty much 100% of the time. Its constant flip flopping with no real basis other than talkig louder

[Eja117]

The problem is that BB the GM hasn't really drafted well overall in a very very long time

[aporel#18]

This year's Patriots Defense was set to win the SuperBowl. I watched them yesterday in the 4th quarter, playing without Tommy Kelly and Vince Wilfork, and they gave the offense every chance to win the game. I hope Tommy Kelly can play at some point, and Armstead is able to give something after week 7, but this D is really elite.

As for the Offense, it's not only one factor. Brady isn't having his best year, and yesterday the O-line wasn't very good. McDaniels playcalling has been questioned by a lot of fans in Pats Pulpit, and while losing Welker and Hernandez hurts, Edelman replaces Welker at a high level. The biggest problem is injury bug: Gronk, Amendola, Vereen, Ridley, and even the rookies. It seems like they can't field a healthy lineup, so the chemistry is hard to build. Brady will trust the new guys and eventually will trust himself to play like the best QB in the game. It's a long season.

Coming into week 5, the Patriots had 13 rookies on their roster. After cutting Sudfeld, I guess it's 12, but that's still a lot to overcome. It's a long season, Pats are 4-1, they have an Elite Defense for the first time in some years, so they just need their injured players to get healthy.

[Rondo2287]

The problem is that BB the GM hasn't really drafted well overall in a very very long time

I dunno

Last year - Jones, hightower, Dennard
2011 - Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Cannon
2010 - Mccourty, Gronk, Spikes, Hernandez, Mesko
2009 - Vollmer and Edelmen (draft was bad)

but the last three years have all been pretty good in terms of getting some quality players/difference makers.

[Cman]

The problem is that BB the GM hasn't really drafted well overall in a very very long time

You're just saying that to get a reaction!!

[Eja117]

The problem is that BB the GM hasn't really drafted well overall in a very very long time

I dunno

Last year - Jones, hightower, Dennard
2011 - Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Cannon
2010 - Mccourty, Gronk, Spikes, Hernandez, Mesko
2009 - Vollmer and Edelmen (draft was bad)

but the last three years have all been pretty good in terms of getting some quality players/difference makers.

I look at this all pretty negatively.

Jones is great. Hightower is ok. I'm waiting to see if Dennard goes to jail. Solder is ok. Vereen, Ridley, and Cannon have their moments, but have yet to really impress me. McCourty is no big deal. Gronk is fragile. Spkies is ok. Hernandez is a failure. Mesko was cut. Vollmer is very good. Edelmen is a very good 7th rounder.

But you're supposed to draft good players. You're not supposed to swing and miss on soooooo many high picks. Jermaine Cunningham. Ron Brace, Tavon Wilson, Wheatley, Ras I Dowling, Kevin O'Connell, Chad Jackson,  Rohan Davey, Brandon Meriwether, Bethel Johnson, Lawrence Maroney, Ben Watson, Taylor Price, Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Tyrone McKenzie, Rich Orhenberger, Shawn Crable, David Thomas, Garett Mills, Gus Scott........all these guys are 4th rounders or higher. Most of them should be contributing more than they are/did.

Basically there is an entire team roster out there of missed high draft picks.

[Rondo2287]

The problem is that BB the GM hasn't really drafted well overall in a very very long time

I dunno

Last year - Jones, hightower, Dennard
2011 - Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Cannon
2010 - Mccourty, Gronk, Spikes, Hernandez, Mesko
2009 - Vollmer and Edelmen (draft was bad)

but the last three years have all been pretty good in terms of getting some quality players/difference makers.

I look at this all pretty negatively.

Jones is great. Hightower is ok. I'm waiting to see if Dennard goes to jail. Solder is ok. Vereen, Ridley, and Cannon have their moments, but have yet to really impress me. McCourty is no big deal. Gronk is fragile. Spkies is ok. Hernandez is a failure. Mesko was cut. Vollmer is very good. Edelmen is a very good 7th rounder.

But you're supposed to draft good players. You're not supposed to swing and miss on soooooo many high picks. Jermaine Cunningham. Ron Brace, Tavon Wilson, Wheatley, Ras I Dowling, Kevin O'Connell, Chad Jackson,  Rohan Davey, Brandon Meriwether, Bethel Johnson, Lawrence Maroney, Ben Watson, Taylor Price, Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Tyrone McKenzie, Rich Orhenberger, Shawn Crable, David Thomas, Garett Mills, Gus Scott........all these guys are 4th rounders or higher. Most of them should be contributing more than they are/did.

Basically there is an entire team roster out there of missed high draft picks.

I personally expect to have more swing and misses than hits, especially when drafting for where the pats have for several years.  I agree they have missed a ton.  But regardless of whether Dennard goes to jail or what happened with Hernandez I still see them has highly successful draft picks considering where they were taken and what production they gave us on the field.