James Harden Traded To Rockets. REACTION!!! (merged)

[celtsfan84]

...maybe to move Thabo to backup sf and give him like 12 mins a game there and try to save Durant's legs a little.

Save Durant's legs? What is he 23 years old? I don't think the Thunder have to worry about resting Durant and his legs any time in the next 7-8 years.

The guy played till the finals and then played in the Olympics. Helping him stay fresh is important and keeping him from getting hurt is too. Just cause Doc plays 35 year olds 44 minutes a night doesn't mean he should

He's 23 years old!!!!!

MJ was playing 39 MPG until he was 37 and still dominating.

The elite(best 2-3 players in the league at any given time) play 38-40 MPG when they are young(especially if they are that good and just 23 years old) because they can and because you want them to. Getting tired at that is isn't a problem. Getting them rest isn't a problem.

Its kind of nonsensical to think you have to be getting Durant rest time when he is in his prime at 23 years old.

The Thunder are a very good team that will win a lot of games comfortably. If you want to pound a kid's knees to dust unnecessarily go right ahead.  Hey how old is Oden? 23ish? 25?  How old was Amare and Kenyon Martin when they missed the whole year with microfracture surgery? Eric Maynor missed the whole season with a snapped ACL and Derrick Rose and Rubio are having some knee trouble right now.  It's ok to reduce exposure to injury and overuse. It's ok.

You can't game plan around injury prevention. Its inviting disaster to strike if you do.

Taking a 23 year old superstar and resting him to prevent injury is an invitation for injury to happen. Never be afraid of an injury when it hasn't happened yet.

I'd like to second this post and also point out that eja seems to be arguing against his whole point.

For instance, you state that Durant should be rested because he has a chance to tear an ACL or need microfracture because of overuse.  Then you point out guys like Eric Maynor, who tore his ACL.  It is worth mention that Maynor tore his ACL playing only 15 minutes per game, 9 games into the season.

The point being, for a serious injury to occur to a young professional athlete like Durant, it would have to be because of a pre-existing condition (like Oden's bad knees, which Durant doesn't have) or because of some freak accident (which could happen 1 minute into a game, or 10 games into a season, not because of overuse).

In other words, you are using a remedy to solve a problem that doesn't exist.  If Durant gets a serious injury, it won't be due to fatigue.  It will be some freak accident that resting him won't prevent, much like Maynor.  Unless your solution is to never play him a single minute, at which point his likelihood of serious injury drops dramatically, but so do your chances of winning.

Do you recommend playing him less minutes than they played Maynor?  After all, as you pointed out, Maynor tore his ACL at a young age (while playing only 15 minutes per game).

Let me get this straight. You're saying that the Thunder are leading a game comfortably. At this point it's a bad idea to sit Durant because that is inviting disaster? So if only they had played Maynor a lot more minutes he wouldn't have gotten hurt?

You are apparently having a lot of trouble getting this straight.   That is not what my post says at all, please re-read, a few times if necessary.

Your post indicated playing Durant less minutes each game to "save his legs".  Are you indicating that the Thunder are going to lead every game they play in this season by a comfortable margin?

Are you saying that Maynor only got hurt because they played him too many minutes?  Or are Maynor's minutes played not relevant to his injury (and thus the same for a potential Durant injury, rendering your multiple posts completely moot).  Please clarify the relation of Maynor's minutes to his injury.  You brought him up in comparison to a potential Durant injury, which I thought was silly.

I'd like to know why Maynor's injury proves that Durant should play less minutes.

[MJohnnyboy]

I could be wrong on this but what hurt the Thunder a lot last year was that they don't have a very good halfcourt offense mainly because they have three guys who thrive in one-on-one isos and two offensively subpar big men. Kevin Martin fits better into a halfcourt offense more than he does on the break and having him still gives the Thunder a proven scoring punch. He's not a 1-on-1 scoring punch, but he's a lethal shooter, which differs from Harden who is more of a 1-on-1 attacker more than he is a spot up shooter. He's been forgotten because he's been in Houston and has had too many injuries.

Plus Perry Jones III has had an amazing pre-season, so perhaps they figured he brings energy that Harden brought to the table as well.

Just a thought.

[Eja117]

...maybe to move Thabo to backup sf and give him like 12 mins a game there and try to save Durant's legs a little.

Save Durant's legs? What is he 23 years old? I don't think the Thunder have to worry about resting Durant and his legs any time in the next 7-8 years.

The guy played till the finals and then played in the Olympics. Helping him stay fresh is important and keeping him from getting hurt is too. Just cause Doc plays 35 year olds 44 minutes a night doesn't mean he should

He's 23 years old!!!!!

MJ was playing 39 MPG until he was 37 and still dominating.

The elite(best 2-3 players in the league at any given time) play 38-40 MPG when they are young(especially if they are that good and just 23 years old) because they can and because you want them to. Getting tired at that is isn't a problem. Getting them rest isn't a problem.

Its kind of nonsensical to think you have to be getting Durant rest time when he is in his prime at 23 years old.

The Thunder are a very good team that will win a lot of games comfortably. If you want to pound a kid's knees to dust unnecessarily go right ahead.  Hey how old is Oden? 23ish? 25?  How old was Amare and Kenyon Martin when they missed the whole year with microfracture surgery? Eric Maynor missed the whole season with a snapped ACL and Derrick Rose and Rubio are having some knee trouble right now.  It's ok to reduce exposure to injury and overuse. It's ok.

You can't game plan around injury prevention. Its inviting disaster to strike if you do.

Taking a 23 year old superstar and resting him to prevent injury is an invitation for injury to happen. Never be afraid of an injury when it hasn't happened yet.

I'd like to second this post and also point out that eja seems to be arguing against his whole point.

For instance, you state that Durant should be rested because he has a chance to tear an ACL or need microfracture because of overuse.  Then you point out guys like Eric Maynor, who tore his ACL.  It is worth mention that Maynor tore his ACL playing only 15 minutes per game, 9 games into the season.

The point being, for a serious injury to occur to a young professional athlete like Durant, it would have to be because of a pre-existing condition (like Oden's bad knees, which Durant doesn't have) or because of some freak accident (which could happen 1 minute into a game, or 10 games into a season, not because of overuse).

In other words, you are using a remedy to solve a problem that doesn't exist.  If Durant gets a serious injury, it won't be due to fatigue.  It will be some freak accident that resting him won't prevent, much like Maynor.  Unless your solution is to never play him a single minute, at which point his likelihood of serious injury drops dramatically, but so do your chances of winning.

Do you recommend playing him less minutes than they played Maynor?  After all, as you pointed out, Maynor tore his ACL at a young age (while playing only 15 minutes per game).

Let me get this straight. You're saying that the Thunder are leading a game comfortably. At this point it's a bad idea to sit Durant because that is inviting disaster? So if only they had played Maynor a lot more minutes he wouldn't have gotten hurt?

You are apparently having a lot of trouble getting this straight.   That is not what my post says at all, please re-read, a few times if necessary.

Your post indicated playing Durant less minutes each game to "save his legs".  Are you indicating that the Thunder are going to lead every game they play in this season by a comfortable margin?

Are you saying that Maynor only got hurt because they played him too many minutes?  Or are Maynor's minutes played not relevant to his injury (and thus the same for a potential Durant injury, rendering your multiple posts completely moot).  Please clarify the relation of Maynor's minutes to his injury.  You brought him up in comparison to a potential Durant injury, which I thought was silly.

I'd like to know why Maynor's injury proves that Durant should play less minutes.

Well I'm dealing with both you and Dr. Agneta here, but I guess I would say that the more minutes a guy plays the more likely he is to get hurt.  The liklihood of getting hurt goes up with physical activity. It can also happen walking down the street I guess. Please don't misconstrue the last sentence with me saying Durant shouldn't walk down any streets. I am saying the Thunder will lead a lot of games comfortably enough to rest him perhaps somewhat regularly.

[indeedproceed]

More minutes leads to increased fatigue, increased fatigue leads to higher possibility of injury.

But you've got to know your players, you can hit a level of diminishing returns.

[CelticSooner]

I could be wrong on this but what hurt the Thunder a lot last year was that they don't have a very good halfcourt offense mainly because they have three guys who thrive in one-on-one isos and two offensively subpar big men. Kevin Martin fits better into a halfcourt offense more than he does on the break and having him still gives the Thunder a proven scoring punch. He's not a 1-on-1 scoring punch, but he's a lethal shooter, which differs from Harden who is more of a 1-on-1 attacker more than he is a spot up shooter. He's been forgotten because he's been in Houston and has had too many injuries.

Plus Perry Jones III has had an amazing pre-season, so perhaps they figured he brings energy that Harden brought to the table as well.

Just a thought.

This is true but I would say that is has more to do with the coach any anything. I can't see their offense changing too much under Brooks.

[vjcsmoke]

Presti's first bad move? Or will it end up being the second after Green blows up this year, and Melo develops down the line? 

Are you joking?
Melo is going to be playing more in the D-League this year than the NBA.  Perry Jones III looks a lot more ready and he's coming into an ideal situation where he can learn behind Durant.

Green hardly even played last year, due to a heart condition, so I have no idea where your expectations of him 'blowing up' come from.

Harden to the Rockets had to happen because of cap reasons.  Harden wanted max salary and Thunder could only offer 54m before running into the cap.  I believe that in addition to Martin and Lamb, the Thunder will receive 2 1st round picks, one of them being a lottery pick.

It's a shame that the Thunder had to break up a dominant offensive trio of Durant/Harden/Westbrook but they got some decent compensation and if they draft well might yet find a 3rd star.

I see Kevin Martin as more of an expiring salary/trade chip to use at the trade deadline.  He'll be somewhat useful but the Thunder are not going to keep him long term.  Lamb, I have no idea what he will turn into but I don't think he's expected to be an all-star or anything like that.

JJJ isn't an NBA player, as Houston learned rather quickly. Him being cut should tip the Brooks/JJJ debate Marshon's way for most reasonably thinking fans.

True, Brooks looks like the better player than JJJ.  But JJJ did lead to a package that landed us Courtney Lee.  So the question then becomes is Brooks better than Lee?  That's still debateable until we see more from both.

[celtsfan84]

 Are you kidding me? After seeing the details. Two first round picks, Kevin Martin, who has had three seasons of over 23 points per game. While hardens best is 16.8 PPG.
 Jeremy Lamb who I think is going to  be a starter in this league, and a 2nd rounder for A good 6th man. This is a wim all the way around for Presti. He's good.

Didn't they also get 2 first rounders (one could be lottery too, I think) with the one 2nd rounder?

He mentioned the 2 first rounders.  It's where he said "Two first round picks", smh.

The Dallas pick is top 20 protected until 2017.  The Toronto pick is likely to be between 4 and 14 (it is top 3 protected and 15-30 protected).

[scaryjerry]

Appalled at any positive talk about Kevin Martin because of his ppg compared to harden...truly laughable. Really? Hes the worst good player ive ever seen.

[Kwhit10]

If they get the Martin of 2-3 years ago this would be not a huge drop off.  Martin used to get to the line all the time.  But he's always injured and not what he used to be.

Man if OKC can trade Martin+?? to the Jazz for some front court help (Milsap?) I think that would be good for both teams.

[mgent]

Haven't read the thread but I'd call it a good move.  Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka are a 50 million bill for the next ~10 years.

Harden is more of a slasher anyway, which they get enough of from Westbrook and Durant.  Even though it did show promising results, it's smart not to lock themselves into that.  Better off using that money on a center who can finish after the slashing takes place (and open up the mid-range).  Westbrook isn't doing anybody any good sitting behind the arc waiting for the dishout.  He needs the ball in his hands so why pay tax out of the ears for a 3rd ball handler who takes away from that?

Getting a dead-eye shooter is a much better fit, and it wasn't a big drop off in talent either.  Solid pre-emptive move.  Not bad for Harden either, a little more oppurtunity to play point forward and a chance to show the league what he's really capable of in the 4th.

[Who]

Man if OKC can trade Martin+?? to the Jazz for some front court help (Milsap?) I think that would be good for both teams.

I think Gordon Hayward is a better two guard than Kevin Martin. I don't think Utah will be interested in trading for Kevin Martin.

[cman88]

imagine if the Spurs traded Ginobli in his prime for some draft picks and unproven talent...this is how I view the trade.

when you are a championship contender with a young superstar core I just dont think you break that up so you can break the bank on "roleplayers" like Perkins/Ibaka...

on paper, OKC got good value, but its unproven talent..time will tell whether any of their "assets" will give the production of Harden.

and, im surprised people think that Martin is a viable replacement...his stats only look better because he took more shots..but, he shot 41% last year vs. hardens 49%

[sofutomygaha]

Does anyone else think that this was a humungous missed opportunity for the Jazz? They were supposedly in talks with OKC about trading Favors or Kanter for Harden. OKC preferred Kanter to the package they got from Houston.

The Jazz are so crazy deep with bigs, even if they are only planning on keeping one of Millsap and Jefferson. They are super weak at guard, where they may very well be starting Raja Bell and Mo Williams.

Trading for Harden would have cashed in depth in order to trade a big weakness for a big strength. I can't think of another team that benefits more from getting Harden... maybe Sacramento or something.

[Fafnir]

I don't know if the Jazz messed up or not, I'm not sure committing to either Millsap/Jefferson is the best thing for their future and trading for Harden and combining his extensions with Jefferson/Millsaps could have left them tight to keep building.

[LooseCannon]

OKC preferred Kanter to the package they got from Houston.

Has this been reported, or is this an assumption?