Doc takes Blame for Ray leavin

[colincb]

Personally, I think Doc's reaction here is pretty narcistic.  Although that is also human nature.  Whenever someone close to us leaves on bad terms, our thoughts naturally go to "what did I do?".
 

Disagree. I think Doc is getting this out there to:

1. Take the focus off the other players (Rondo) and put the focus on himself, to avoid drama.

2. Get out in front of the story as much as possible before the start of the season, to minimize the media circus and gossip before game 1.

3. Let everyone know that the team he ran out there for the last 30 games of the 2012 season is the one he believes in this season.

Doc knows that things other than Doc Rivers were important in Ray's decision.

But he also knows that three more months of teeth-gnashing and speculation about Ray Allen, and Ray vs. Rondo, etc., will be bad for his team.

He's just being smart about the politics of it all, IMO.

Pretty much my thinking.  Rondo's got a pretty bad rep around the NBA as a Richard, especially compared to Ray, that I think Doc wanted to take some heat off of him. Doc's very popular, so he can afford to place himself in opposition to Ray.

I actually think Ray's biggest beef was with Danny FWIW.  DA's constant talk about breaking up the Big 3 wasn't too bright, the frequent trade rumors about Ray, Rondo, Pierce et al weren't smart, and the botched panic trade with Memphis wasn't DA's finest hour either.  Why it never crossed anyone's mind that Mayo (AND Ray) would have to in effect approve the deal beforehand is puzzling.

[Chris]

I don't think it has anything to do with wanting to go to Miami as a life decision. I don't see any real evidence to back that up. He has at the absolute most 3 years there. He could have just moved their in 3 years. He's completely uprooting his familyfrom a community they've been deeply involved in, invested in, taking them out pf schools hospitals, his wife even had her own tv show.

I don't see how you can't look at it as personal problems/issues with the team, coach, owners and players when everything points to that.

Yes, his family has built roots in Boston.  And he was almost forced to uproot 2 times in the middle of the season over the last couple years.  So, unless there was a full no trade clause (which again, I have not seen any strong evidence there was), then that eliminates the benefit you would get from staying in Boston as it comes to not uprooting your family.

So, I am suggesting he decided to uproot his family one last time.  To the city he wants to stay in.  When he can do it during the summer, rather than during the school year.  And do it while his kids are still young, rather than in 3 years, when they will be older, and more established in school/etc.

I think all of the other things played a role too.  But ultimately, I just think Ray wanted to go to Miami.  He had stayed in Boston a couple years ago out of loyalty, but that loyalty was broke when they tried to trade him.  So, he went to where he wanted to live.

[Chris]

I actually think Ray's biggest beef was with Danny FWIW.  DA's constant talk about breaking up the Big 3 wasn't too bright, the frequent trade rumors about Ray, Rondo, Pierce et al weren't smart, and the botched panic trade with Memphis wasn't DA's finest hour either.  Why it never crossed anyone's mind that Mayo (AND Ray) would have to in effect approve the deal beforehand is puzzling.

Here's the thing though.  Is it a "beef" as in something personal, or is it a rational decision?  I personally think it is more of a rational decision, based on the fact that he does not feel that he can trust the organization not to trade him.  Therefore, he cannot be comfortable playing there.

Everyone wants to make this into something really vindictive and personal, but I just am not convinced about that.  I just think he made the decision he felt was best for him. 

[BballTim]

Personally, I think Doc's reaction here is pretty narcistic.  Although that is also human nature.  Whenever someone close to us leaves on bad terms, our thoughts naturally go to "what did I do?".
 

Disagree. I think Doc is getting this out there to:

1. Take the focus off the other players (Rondo) and put the focus on himself, to avoid drama.

2. Get out in front of the story as much as possible before the start of the season, to minimize the media circus and gossip before game 1.

3. Let everyone know that the team he ran out there for the last 30 games of the 2012 season is the one he believes in this season.

Doc knows that things other than Doc Rivers were important in Ray's decision.

But he also knows that three more months of teeth-gnashing and speculation about Ray Allen, and Ray vs. Rondo, etc., will be bad for his team.

He's just being smart about the politics of it all, IMO.

Pretty much my thinking.  Rondo's got a pretty bad rep around the NBA as a Richard, especially compared to Ray, that I think Doc wanted to take some heat off of him. Doc's very popular, so he can afford to place himself in opposition to Ray.

  People here have no real idea about what Rondo or Ray's reputations are around the league, just like they had no idea that much of what we've heard about Ray over the last month or two were at all likely to be true.

I actually think Ray's biggest beef was with Danny FWIW.  DA's constant talk about breaking up the Big 3 wasn't too bright, the frequent trade rumors about Ray, Rondo, Pierce et al weren't smart, and the botched panic trade with Memphis wasn't DA's finest hour either.  Why it never crossed anyone's mind that Mayo (AND Ray) would have to in effect approve the deal beforehand is puzzling.

  Why was Ray to Memphis for Mayo and a pick a panic move?

[CelticHooligan3]

If Ray cared about the team, he would have taken the sixth man role. But he couldn't handle losing his job to a kid who barely played NBA ball for a year and a half. Oh well...

Simple yet elegant. TP.

[Boris Badenov]

 Celts non-Rondo assisted makes/opportunities: 935/2650 = 35.3%
 Celts Rondo-assisted makes/opportunities: 231/413 = 55.9%
 Difference: 20.6%."

  According to 82games, the typical increase in scoring likelihood from an assist vs a non-assist is 8%. But in any case the Celts were just over 70% more likely to convert a scoring chance that came from a Rondo pass than they were otherwise.

  I'd say the results warrant Rondo having the ball in his hands.

Some of this could be due to the fact that a Rondo-assisted basket means that the play worked, in terms of getting the first option a good look.

If the play fails, the first option needs to pass to the second option for a worse shot, or we go into "hero" mode. Lower assist rate in either case.

I'm not saying I disagree with your overall point, btw. Just to take these numbers with a grain of salt.

[Interceptor]

Ray knew that the second Danny had an opportunity, he would try to trade him again.  And he didn't want to go through that.  My guess is the Heat gave him an assurance they would never trade him without his consent.  Danny, on the other hand wouldn't have done that.

This is just a guess on your part, it's not substantiated by evidence, just your gut.

It doesn't make sense given the facts. We know that Danny wanted Allen back, we know the offer was the same years for twice the money (Heat deal is 2 years, 2nd year player option). We know that none of the Heat's promises are binding, since only the Celtics could have offered a no-trade in a contract, it's a fact of the CBA.

What is the downside of a no-trade clause for Danny Ainge? It means that he can't trade Allen without his consent, not that he can't trade Allen, so that just takes away the places where Allen doesn't want to go. I don't expect that the value as an expiring contract matters one whit to Allen, so that only leaves the in-between. How much does this really limit Ainge, really? He's not getting under the cap by getting rid of Allen's contract, the rest of the contracts on the team (KG, Pierce, Rondo, Bass, Terry, Green) assure that much. He loses the ability to trade the contract for some young asset or a pick? Tell me what team wants Allen's 2y/6M contract in exchange for something Ainge wants.

After you go through all of that hypothetical downside and carefully weigh it, now tell me that Danny Ainge doesn't weigh the same options and cave to Allen on a straight-up no-trade clause when his back is against the wall for MLE apron reasons. Tell me why Ainge says no. Courtney Lee is not in his hand yet, but Terry is.

This walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, so if you're going claim that it's actually a swan, it would be nice to hear a reason other than that you don't trust the rumor mill.

[kozlodoev]

So, I am suggesting he decided to uproot his family one last time.  To the city he wants to stay in.  When he can do it during the summer, rather than during the school year.  And do it while his kids are still young, rather than in 3 years, when they will be older, and more established in school/etc.

According to his statements, he still plans to maintain his offseason home in New England. So I don't think this is it.

[Celts Fan 92]

man yall really invested into random unimportant stats rofl. before i got on da internet i swear i neva heard of stats per 36 minutes shots per 40 minutes nd all these numbers yall throwin around im lookin at overall ppg period nd eye test nd if u out chea thinkin Ray's numbers aint slip or decline u blind lls

[Jon]

If Ray cared about the team, he would have taken the sixth man role. But he couldn't handle losing his job to a kid who barely played NBA ball for a year and a half. Oh well...

Simple yet elegant. TP.

This is somewhat true.  I think it was a little more complicated than that.

The only thing that I have a problem with is that people seem to be judging Ray negatively because of this fact when Paul, KG, and pretty much any other star likely would've done the same thing. 

I mean we're not talking about a marginal All Star.  We're talking about a 10 time All Star, a first ballot Hall of Famer, and arguably the greatest shooter in the history of the NBA getting his starting job taken from him while he was injured by a guy that half of this board thought was worse than E'Twaun Moore at the beginning of last season. 

And while Ray probably has slipped more than Paul and KG, he also was the one who sacrificed the most when he came here, essentially going from a guy who had the ball a lot, to a guy who came off screens to get his shots. 

So I don't think he deserves disproportional blame here.  I think most stars would be upset and I don't think there are many or any that would've taken this well for the good of the team. 

I think the bigger criticism of Ray is what Doc brought up in the interview: Ray isn't going to find Miami to be a better situation. 

I get why he left, but he should've gone somewhere where he could start and potentially be a difference maker.  Being a bench player on the defending champion doesn't accomplish that.   

[Interceptor]

lls

Haven't figured out what this means yet, I think I got everything else.

People use advanced stats because they are better. Regular stats don't tell the whole story, and eye tests are subject to confirmation bias.

[Galeto]

I think Ray leaving came down to not enjoying playing in the Celtics system anymore.  It might not be any better in Miami, it might not meet his expectations but he might have been so fed up with his role here, from coming off the bench, to not being allowed to be a guard who can handle the ball semi-regularly that a new situation was more appealing.

If I was Ray and I was used to handling the ball a lot in my career, if my titled position of guard usually involves some ballhandling, I think I would've been most upset by Rondo running up to me frantically to take the ball.  It wasn't to run a break or urgently run a play either.  It was like Ray was a big who shouldn't handle the ball.  It certainly annoyed me. 

[Celts Fan 92]

lls

Haven't figured out what this means yet, I think I got everything else.

People use advanced stats because they are better. Regular stats don't tell the whole story, and eye tests are subject to confirmation bias.

lls= laughin like Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. its maryland lingo bruh

[colincb]

Personally, I think Doc's reaction here is pretty narcistic.  Although that is also human nature.  Whenever someone close to us leaves on bad terms, our thoughts naturally go to "what did I do?".
 

Disagree. I think Doc is getting this out there to:

1. Take the focus off the other players (Rondo) and put the focus on himself, to avoid drama.

2. Get out in front of the story as much as possible before the start of the season, to minimize the media circus and gossip before game 1.

3. Let everyone know that the team he ran out there for the last 30 games of the 2012 season is the one he believes in this season.

Doc knows that things other than Doc Rivers were important in Ray's decision.

But he also knows that three more months of teeth-gnashing and speculation about Ray Allen, and Ray vs. Rondo, etc., will be bad for his team.

He's just being smart about the politics of it all, IMO.

Pretty much my thinking.  Rondo's got a pretty bad rep around the NBA as a Richard, especially compared to Ray, that I think Doc wanted to take some heat off of him. Doc's very popular, so he can afford to place himself in opposition to Ray.

  People here have no real idea about what Rondo or Ray's reputations are around the league, just like they had no idea that much of what we've heard about Ray over the last month or two were at all likely to be true.

I actually think Ray's biggest beef was with Danny FWIW.  DA's constant talk about breaking up the Big 3 wasn't too bright, the frequent trade rumors about Ray, Rondo, Pierce et al weren't smart, and the botched panic trade with Memphis wasn't DA's finest hour either.  Why it never crossed anyone's mind that Mayo (AND Ray) would have to in effect approve the deal beforehand is puzzling.

  Why was Ray to Memphis for Mayo and a pick a panic move?

I've yet to hear anything negative about Ray as a team mate (and I've heard ex-players speak very favorably about him) and yet to hear anything positive about Rondo.  Not once.  Doc himself has been pretty clear about Rondo's difficulties in the past and we've seen him act like a jerk more than once.

As for panic moves, Danny was blowing the team up, not just trading Ray, despite an apparent turn-around after the ASG. If Danny's moves go through we sitting on a heaping pile of steaming crap and tanking in 2012-13.  It's my opinion that Mayo isn't very good, but it appears to be shared by most NBA GMs and certainly by the Grizzlies who knew him best.  Maybe it's because he's never had as good a season as Ray did last year playing on a bum ankle or maybe because Mayo has an over-inflated opinion of his worth or maybe has a attitude as has been reported or has stunk in the playoffs as can be witnessed by reference to any BB stats site.  Take your choice, but there was a lot more interest from GM's in Ray Allen during free agency than OJ Mayo (except on this board).

[Interceptor]

I've yet to hear anything negative about Ray as a team mate (and I've heard ex-players speak very favorably about him) and yet to hear anything positive about Rondo.  Not once.

Allow me to introduce you to Rondo's teammate, the Reverend Keyon Dooling:

There were a lot of people who didn't necessarily talk before the game. John Stockton was a guy who never talked before the game, never signed autographs or anything like that and he was known as a gentleman and a saint so the spin that Rondo has is definitely a misconception. If you ask the guys in the locker room, I'd tell you that everybody is with him. If I have to go down a dark alley, I want to go down there with him. As a matter of fact, behind him because he's a great leader … I think he has pure passion for the game. He loves the game, he's a thinker of the game, he's a student of the game, he's a historian of the game. He wants to be special. He wants to quietly leave his mark on this league and he wants to kind of do it his way … He's a reserved guy. Don't allow people to tell you that this guy is a jerk or an Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. because he's quiet and he doesn't want to talk before games or he doesn't have this superman personality, this Dwight Howard personality.