Jared Sullinger to start over Brandon Bass??

[erisred]

I doubt Sullinger starts this year, not at the beginning anyway. I think he'll play from the beginning, though.

What I hope Sullinger takes away from SL is that he isn't *strong* enough, quick enough, or experienced enough to dominate like he did in college. Then if he can realize and do what is necessary to change his body and his game he might turn into a very good player.

He'll never *really* work his butt off, but figuratively that's exactly what he needs to do.

[action781]

Am I complaining about Bass taking the open jumper? No. I'm complaining about how Bass becomes an essential blackhole (even with our starters) and in those cases when he's missing his open jumpers, it can continue for quite a stretch because the defense effectively keeps giving it to him. Which occurred quite frequently this past playoffs for example.

We may not "run" plays for him, but we essentially run a lot of pick and pops with him, which adds pretty much to the same as far as I'm concerned. In all, when he's taking the bulk of his shots, I rather he'd not be with our starters.

He's good with his mid-range jumper, but so is KG.

Define black hole.  10+  fga?  In 20 playoff games, he attempted 10+ fgs in 8 of them. 

What constitutes a poor shooting game.  Less than 40%?  He only shot < 40% in 3 of those 8 games. 

So, 3 games out of 20 in the playoffs he shot under 40% on more than 10 fga.  I don't know how "frequent" that is.  It was a much more frequent occurance from Paul Pierce.

Black hole is someone who doesn't pass the ball. Powe was like that, and Big Baby later on became that too. They get the ball and the ball sticks, and more than likely they're taking the shot or making a move for themselves, often ill advised. Anyways, this is a well documented aspect of his game, we're not declaring anything new or revolutionary here.

For a big like him, whose majority of shots are wide open mid-range jumpers, and close buckets, anything south of 47%-50% is already starting to become suspect, particularly if you're playing with the main unit we feature. Let's be honest here, the great majority of his shots are easy shots for him (particularly when playing with Rondo).

Anyways, this is not about Bass playing well or not. Not wanting him to start has nothing to do with how well or bad he plays, but of how he fits with the unit, and what he adds vs. what he takes away.

I like him, I just like him more coming off the bench where I think he'll be more productive for us and his weaknesses will not be as pronounced.

I don't disagree with you that he's a black hole.  He was called "no pass Bass" for a reason.  He had something like 3 total assists in the first 10 games as a celtic.

But if he's knocking down the shots at a good clip, where is the problem?  I think your problem was that on his "off days" then he just keeps shooting and our first unit would be better off with our other starters shooting and these off days are a "frequent" occurance.

My point was that he only had an "off day" and took a lot of shots three times out of 20 games in the playoffs.  Much more often (17 out of 20 playoff games) he either is knocking down those shots which is great or otherwise fitting in nicely with the offense, moving the ball and not taking too many jumpers.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Am I complaining about Bass taking the open jumper? No. I'm complaining about how Bass becomes an essential blackhole (even with our starters) and in those cases when he's missing his open jumpers, it can continue for quite a stretch because the defense effectively keeps giving it to him. Which occurred quite frequently this past playoffs for example.

We may not "run" plays for him, but we essentially run a lot of pick and pops with him, which adds pretty much to the same as far as I'm concerned. In all, when he's taking the bulk of his shots, I rather he'd not be with our starters.

He's good with his mid-range jumper, but so is KG.

Define black hole.  10+  fga?  In 20 playoff games, he attempted 10+ fgs in 8 of them. 

What constitutes a poor shooting game.  Less than 40%?  He only shot < 40% in 3 of those 8 games. 

So, 3 games out of 20 in the playoffs he shot under 40% on more than 10 fga.  I don't know how "frequent" that is.  It was a much more frequent occurance from Paul Pierce.

Black hole is someone who doesn't pass the ball. Powe was like that, and Big Baby later on became that too. They get the ball and the ball sticks, and more than likely they're taking the shot or making a move for themselves, often ill advised. Anyways, this is a well documented aspect of his game, we're not declaring anything new or revolutionary here.

For a big like him, whose majority of shots are wide open mid-range jumpers, and close buckets, anything south of 47%-50% is already starting to become suspect, particularly if you're playing with the main unit we feature. Let's be honest here, the great majority of his shots are easy shots for him (particularly when playing with Rondo).

Anyways, this is not about Bass playing well or not. Not wanting him to start has nothing to do with how well or bad he plays, but of how he fits with the unit, and what he adds vs. what he takes away.

I like him, I just like him more coming off the bench where I think he'll be more productive for us and his weaknesses will not be as pronounced.

I don't disagree with you that he's a black hole.  He was called "no pass Bass" for a reason.  He had something like 3 total assists in the first 10 games as a celtic.

But if he's knocking down the shots at a good clip, where is the problem?  I think your problem was that on his "off days" then he just keeps shooting and our first unit would be better off with our other starters shooting and these off days are a "frequent" occurance.

My point was that he only had an "off day" and took a lot of shots three times out of 20 games in the playoffs.  Much more often (17 out of 20 playoff games) he either is knocking down those shots which is great or otherwise fitting in nicely with the offense, moving the ball and not taking too many jumpers.

In all, Bass playing with our starters is not a big issue for me. I just think we have better options for that role that will maximize our opportunities. As I mentioned also, while Rondo does give bass great looks off a pick and pop, Bass also has a knack for not catching Rondo's passes off a cut. And those little things pile up for me to think that there are better options, like say Wilcox (not that he's a batter player than Bass).

Anyways, I'm not losing sleep over this decision really. But I think Bass on the bench gives us the best balanced approach. In all honestly also, I'm a bit eager to see if Wilcox comes back and shows where he left off last year. I hope hasn't regressed.

[Marqui]

Am I complaining about Bass taking the open jumper? No. I'm complaining about how Bass becomes an essential blackhole (even with our starters) and in those cases when he's missing his open jumpers, it can continue for quite a stretch because the defense effectively keeps giving it to him. Which occurred quite frequently this past playoffs for example.

We may not "run" plays for him, but we essentially run a lot of pick and pops with him, which adds pretty much to the same as far as I'm concerned. In all, when he's taking the bulk of his shots, I rather he'd not be with our starters.

He's good with his mid-range jumper, but so is KG.

Define black hole.  10+  fga?  In 20 playoff games, he attempted 10+ fgs in 8 of them. 

What constitutes a poor shooting game.  Less than 40%?  He only shot < 40% in 3 of those 8 games. 

So, 3 games out of 20 in the playoffs he shot under 40% on more than 10 fga.  I don't know how "frequent" that is.  It was a much more frequent occurance from Paul Pierce.

Black hole is someone who doesn't pass the ball. Powe was like that, and Big Baby later on became that too. They get the ball and the ball sticks, and more than likely they're taking the shot or making a move for themselves, often ill advised. Anyways, this is a well documented aspect of his game, we're not declaring anything new or revolutionary here.

For a big like him, whose majority of shots are wide open mid-range jumpers, and close buckets, anything south of 47%-50% is already starting to become suspect, particularly if you're playing with the main unit we feature. Let's be honest here, the great majority of his shots are easy shots for him (particularly when playing with Rondo).

Anyways, this is not about Bass playing well or not. Not wanting him to start has nothing to do with how well or bad he plays, but of how he fits with the unit, and what he adds vs. what he takes away.

I like him, I just like him more coming off the bench where I think he'll be more productive for us and his weaknesses will not be as pronounced.

I don't disagree with you that he's a black hole.  He was called "no pass Bass" for a reason.  He had something like 3 total assists in the first 10 games as a celtic.

But if he's knocking down the shots at a good clip, where is the problem?  I think your problem was that on his "off days" then he just keeps shooting and our first unit would be better off with our other starters shooting and these off days are a "frequent" occurance.

My point was that he only had an "off day" and took a lot of shots three times out of 20 games in the playoffs.  Much more often (17 out of 20 playoff games) he either is knocking down those shots which is great or otherwise fitting in nicely with the offense, moving the ball and not taking too many jumpers.

In all, Bass playing with our starters is not a big issue for me. I just think we have better options for that role that will maximize our opportunities. As I mentioned also, while Rondo does give bass great looks off a pick and pop, Bass also has a knack for not catching Rondo's passes off a cut. And those little things pile up for me to think that there are better options, like say Wilcox (not that he's a batter player than Bass).

Anyways, I'm not losing sleep over this decision really. But I think Bass on the bench gives us the best balanced approach. In all honestly also, I'm a bit eager to see if Wilcox comes back and shows where he left off last year. I hope hasn't regressed.

Another negative on Bass starting is that he is a very poor rebounder. That problem is lessened some if he's playing against other 2nd unit bigs.

[bfrombleacher]

It's not bad if you think about it. Sully's an unfinished product who can rebound, something we desperately need. His weaknesses will be completely shadowed by our starters.

Being a legit threat on the offensive end and having nice synergy with KG (more so than the other starters) is a great plus. KG can get it rolling early.

And with that we'd be having, what, three and a half fringe starting caliber players coming off the bench?

[guava_wrench]

center? Bad idea if we start Sully it needs to be pf and KG at center. Still very interesting, Sully is the better rebounder. Starting for a Celtics team as a rookie though? Good job haha

Agreed, but that is just semantics. KG would probably take the tip and defend really tall guys, but Sully would spend more time in the low post. KG and Duncan are often called power forwards even when they are de facto Centers.

It doesn't matter which you call a C or a PF. If KG and Sully are on the floor together, they will match up with who makes sense. KG would likely get the more mobile big.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

It's not bad if you think about it. Sully's an unfinished product who can rebound, something we desperately need. His weaknesses will be completely shadowed by our starters.

Being a legit threat on the offensive end and having nice synergy with KG (more so than the other starters) is a great plus. KG can get it rolling early.

And with that we'd be having, what, three and a half fringe starting caliber players coming off the bench?

well, the bench will be deep no doubt. JET, Bradley(if Lee is still starting when he comes back), Bass, Green, Sully. KG and Wilcox could start at the 4 and 5 spots. Like others I much prefer Bass off the bench. Night and Day from last year to this year. We could have 40 points off the bench at times.

[Galeto]

I think there's a decent or better chance he starts.  Whether he starts or comes off the bench, he's not likely to play more than 25 minutes a game or finish games but his development would certainly be better playing with the starters and benefiting from the open looks that the second big next to KG frequently seems to get.  And the starting unit might be better off with Sullinger's superior rebounding and passing ability compared to Bass.  Bass became a starter out of necessity and having no better options but I don't think he's locked into that position.

From an entertainment standpoint, I'd just love to see the Celtics put out four starters who could really pass the ball.

[chambers]

It's plausible that he may start. Probably not right away but they will try certain rotations and Sully/KG might be a better combo. Sully inside could be a very good center. Would give us another solid post up option and if he starts nailing the jumpshot from mid range then I can't see why he wouldn't get a shot as full time starter. I mean he was projected as a top 10 pick. He's gotta be in the top 5 as far as power forwards or centers go as far as rebounding and post up skill go.
They'll probably slowly work him into the position and give him a full time shot around All Star break if they are really considering it.