Danny and Doc extremely upset with Ray

[Eja117]

What I don't understand is the fan argument that Ray "screwed" the team, or left them in a terrible position.  Unless Ray promised Danny that he'd be back, then it's Danny's job to plan for the contingency of Ray leaving.  (Danny did this, by the way, by signing Terry.)  Nobody was "screwed"; this was a business decision that everyone should have known was a possibility.

You know, I expect this viewpoint from a lawyer ("what do you mean? everything was perfectly legal!"), but is this what we've come to in 2012? That nobody bears any responsibility for the consequences of their decisions unless contractually obligated to do so? Do you get mad at Peter Parker for being upset with himself for not stopping the mugger?

Only lawyers hold the view that you shouldn't rely on something happening until it's promised? 

If I'm a manufacturer, and I very publicly go looking for a different widget supplier, does my current widget supplier "screw me over" if he chooses to take his business to a different manufacturer once our contract expires?  Of course not.  Nobody got screwed.  Rather, in a free market, the supplier chose to do business with somebody he considered to be a more loyal customer.  That's business.

Some fans want to personalize this.  Go ahead, but realize that Ray didn't owe you anything.

If the supplier went to your heated rival for half what you offered at the first immediate chance I might suspect it's not purely business

[kozlodoev]

Some fans want to personalize this.  Go ahead, but realize that Ray didn't owe you anything.

We didn't owe him anything when we cheered him either. So what gives?

[Jon]

What I don't understand is the fan argument that Ray "screwed" the team, or left them in a terrible position.  Unless Ray promised Danny that he'd be back, then it's Danny's job to plan for the contingency of Ray leaving.  (Danny did this, by the way, by signing Terry.)  Nobody was "screwed"; this was a business decision that everyone should have known was a possibility.

You know, I expect this viewpoint from a lawyer ("what do you mean? everything was perfectly legal!"), but is this what we've come to in 2012? That nobody bears any responsibility for the consequences of their decisions unless contractually obligated to do so? Do you get mad at Peter Parker for being upset with himself for not stopping the mugger?

Only lawyers hold the view that you shouldn't rely on something happening until it's promised? 

If I'm a manufacturer, and I very publicly go looking for a different widget supplier, does my current widget supplier "screw me over" if he chooses to take his business to a different manufacturer once our contract expires?  Of course not.  Nobody got screwed.  Rather, in a free market, the supplier chose to do business with somebody he considered to be a more loyal customer.  That's business.

Some fans want to personalize this.  Go ahead, but realize that Ray didn't owe you anything.

If the supplier went to your heated rival for half what you offered at the first immediate chance I might suspect it's not purely business

I'd call that supplier stupid. 

And that's how I'd characterize the whole thing.  I don't feel betrayed by Ray, I just feel he made a truly stupid decision going to Miami for half the money to have (what looks to be) an even more diminished role than he had here. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

All I'm saying is that thinking that leaving to MIA was his only choice is a bit naive, and foolish. He was one of the first free-agents to commit, and we hadn't even reached the point where free-agents could sign a contract.

There was plenty of time to find a team for him, and plenty of time to find a better contract than 9 million for 3 years (if that's true at all).

Sorry, I don't buy Miami being his only choice. For a proud player, he sold-out quite easily to a team which has been his rival in the past two seasons, eliminating him from the championship.

I don't know how anyone can respect his decision to go to them.

Well, in that case, my WORST case scenario is that he DID try to stick DANNY (not BOS) - by going to MIA.

Us as fans only see a TINY bit of what goes on in REAL time.

Perhaps he remembered PERK - and wanted to leave on HIS OWN terms.

We all remember how divided and hurt we were (still are in some cases) with Perk being traded out of the blue?

Perhaps, looking at the other side of the spectrum - Ray wanted to stick Danny? Perhaps Ray, after two or three yrs of trade speculation (and remembering PERK) - saw the writing on the wall and chose to leave while he could?

Who knows?

Danny Ainge? I can't hate the man. He is the GM of one of the winningest franchises in ALL of Sports - Boston Celtics.

He has a job to do. IMO, that job is perhaps the hardest one of all.

For me, it would be difficult to be a GM. I'd have too many bonds with players. It would be nearly impossible to part with anyone who I saw bust their behinds for the team - even if it made the team better.

I really don't care for fan-fiction kind of scenarios, even if they end up being an accurate portrayal of the situation. All I care of is that Ray Allen went to the enemy with little to no consideration for the Celtics' fanbase and community.

Secondary to that, I just can't respect his decision in any shape or form, and makes me think less of him. And I had him and quite a high standard, particularly on how he carried himself on and off the court. When he was thinking of leaving, I was one of his few supporters here and understood why he might choose to leave. But man, did he go about it the worst way.

[TripleOT]

Ainge can make a logical case for trying to trade Allen last season - the team was trying to get a young guard and a first round draft pick for an aging veteran on an expiring contract.

Allen can't make a logical case for taking half the yearly money to sign with his former team's big rival.  He can, and has, made an emotional case for it.

  

[ederson]

If I'm a manufacturer, and I very publicly go looking for a different widget supplier, does my current widget supplier "screw me over" if he chooses to take his business to a different manufacturer once our contract expires?  Of course not.  Nobody got screwed.  Rather, in a free market, the supplier chose to do business with somebody he considered to be a more loyal customer.  That's business.

I think the example is a bit wrong.
A player is not just a faceless part of a product like any kind of widget. The fans have a personal relationship with some players and the players enjoy it whether they admit it or not.

[Mencius]

...
Some fans want to personalize this.  Go ahead, but realize that Ray didn't owe you anything.

If we didn't personalize practically everything that the organization does, we wouldn't be fans, so of course we personalize this.  It impacts our experience of the Celtics.  I think maybe it's not nothing (as in it is more than nothing) that he owes the fans, but of course, they're not going to be the primary factor in his decision making process.  His loyalty should have primarily been with the guys in the locker room, his teammates and his coaches (with probably some affection for the fans as well; he was clearly touched by the "Let's go Celtics" chant).  Given that we came within a few minutes of knocking off the Heat without key contributors being healthy, it's reasonable to think that we might still overtake them this coming season.  And if his major issue was about being dangled as trade bait, if that issue was taken off the table by a no trade clause, then, by and large, the major thorn in his butt was removed from the equation, at which point, one might hope he would have felt some sense of loyalty to the guys he had gone to war with for the past 5 years.  If he felt any such, it was overwhelmed by, I think, a desire to screw Celtics management over, especially when you consider the twice the money and trades off the table aspect.  I don't see how he looks KG and PP in the face.

[Mencius]

If the supplier went to your heated rival for half what you offered at the first immediate chance I might suspect it's not purely business

Exactly.

[kozlodoev]

Ainge can make a logical case for trying to trade Allen last season - the team was trying to get a young guard and a first round draft pick for an aging veteran on an expiring contract.

Allen can't make a logical case for taking half the yearly money to sign with his former team's big rival.  He can, and has, made an emotional case for it.

Especially given that he's going to have pretty much the same role on his new team.

[angryguy77]

That's all it is. In forum settings, there is a box you can check, that says 'Hidden' or something like it. Maybe 'allow others to see when I'm online'.

It just means my name doesn't appear up there as lurking.

WHICH I ALWAYS AM, EVERYWHERE!!!!!!

Ha!

What you hiding from though, the blogging boogeyman?  

Oh, and here's a TP just for making me laugh.

In all honesty I did it way before I even became a mod. Someone told me about it, and i liked the idea that people wouldn't know what I was reading/where I was all the time. Got used to it.

Guys, if you're really curious to see where IP is, just let me know and I'll show you what window in his house has the best angle for gathering such info.....

[Roy H.]

...
Some fans want to personalize this.  Go ahead, but realize that Ray didn't owe you anything.

If we didn't personalize practically everything that the organization does, we wouldn't be fans, so of course we personalize this.  It impacts our experience of the Celtics.  I think maybe it's not nothing (as in it is more than nothing) that he owes the fans, but of course, they're not going to be the primary factor in his decision making process.  His loyalty should have primarily been with the guys in the locker room, his teammates and his coaches (with probably some affection for the fans as well; he was clearly touched by the "Let's go Celtics" chant).  Given that we came within a few minutes of knocking off the Heat without key contributors being healthy, it's reasonable to think that we might still overtake them this coming season.  And if his major issue was about being dangled as trade bait, if that issue was taken off the table by a no trade clause, then, by and large, the major thorn in his butt was removed from the equation, at which point, one might hope he would have felt some sense of loyalty to the guys he had gone to war with for the past 5 years.  If he felt any such, it was overwhelmed by, I think, a desire to screw Celtics management over, especially when you consider the twice the money and trades off the table aspect.  I don't see how he looks KG and PP in the face.

Why is it a one way street?

Why is Ray demonized for leaving the team, but Danny isn't vilified for attempting to trade Ray?

Danny Ainge walked away from some of this team's hardest working players.  He told Perk, Posey, and Powe to pound salt.  Should we burn Danny in effigy, because he frustrated our expectations as fans?  Or do we realize that he was doing what he thought was right?

Ray did what he thought was right.  He made a decision that worked for him, and presumably his family.  That's his prerogative.  Some fans have a sense of entitlement that a man should be required to work some place he's not happy just because they offered him more money than somewhere else.  Who are we to tell somebody else where or how he should find happiness?

[Moranis]

...
Some fans want to personalize this.  Go ahead, but realize that Ray didn't owe you anything.

If we didn't personalize practically everything that the organization does, we wouldn't be fans, so of course we personalize this.  It impacts our experience of the Celtics.  I think maybe it's not nothing (as in it is more than nothing) that he owes the fans, but of course, they're not going to be the primary factor in his decision making process.  His loyalty should have primarily been with the guys in the locker room, his teammates and his coaches (with probably some affection for the fans as well; he was clearly touched by the "Let's go Celtics" chant).  Given that we came within a few minutes of knocking off the Heat without key contributors being healthy, it's reasonable to think that we might still overtake them this coming season.  And if his major issue was about being dangled as trade bait, if that issue was taken off the table by a no trade clause, then, by and large, the major thorn in his butt was removed from the equation, at which point, one might hope he would have felt some sense of loyalty to the guys he had gone to war with for the past 5 years.  If he felt any such, it was overwhelmed by, I think, a desire to screw Celtics management over, especially when you consider the twice the money and trades off the table aspect.  I don't see how he looks KG and PP in the face.

Why is it a one way street?

Why is Ray demonized for leaving the team, but Danny isn't vilified for attempting to trade Ray?

Danny Ainge walked away from some of this team's hardest working players.  He told Perk, Posey, and Powe to pound salt.  Should we burn Danny in effigy, because he frustrated our expectations as fans?  Or do we realize that he was doing what he thought was right?

Ray did what he thought was right.  He made a decision that worked for him, and presumably his family.  That's his prerogative.  Some fans have a sense of entitlement that a man should be required to work some place he's not happy just because they offered him more money than somewhere else.  Who are we to tell somebody else where or how he should find happiness?

Exactly.  It is threads like this one why Boston sports fans are vilified and hated nationally.  Believe me, I live in Ohio, about the only fan base worse than Boston is New York (to most people here).  To put it in perspective, Ohioans think more highly of the SEC football team fan bases, then they do of the Boston fan bases. 

The sense of entitlement is disgusting.  Makes me sad to be a Celtic fan frankly.

[BudweiserCeltic]

...
Some fans want to personalize this.  Go ahead, but realize that Ray didn't owe you anything.

If we didn't personalize practically everything that the organization does, we wouldn't be fans, so of course we personalize this.  It impacts our experience of the Celtics.  I think maybe it's not nothing (as in it is more than nothing) that he owes the fans, but of course, they're not going to be the primary factor in his decision making process.  His loyalty should have primarily been with the guys in the locker room, his teammates and his coaches (with probably some affection for the fans as well; he was clearly touched by the "Let's go Celtics" chant).  Given that we came within a few minutes of knocking off the Heat without key contributors being healthy, it's reasonable to think that we might still overtake them this coming season.  And if his major issue was about being dangled as trade bait, if that issue was taken off the table by a no trade clause, then, by and large, the major thorn in his butt was removed from the equation, at which point, one might hope he would have felt some sense of loyalty to the guys he had gone to war with for the past 5 years.  If he felt any such, it was overwhelmed by, I think, a desire to screw Celtics management over, especially when you consider the twice the money and trades off the table aspect.  I don't see how he looks KG and PP in the face.

Why is it a one way street?

Why is Ray demonized for leaving the team, but Danny isn't vilified for attempting to trade Ray?

Danny Ainge walked away from some of this team's hardest working players.  He told Perk, Posey, and Powe to pound salt.  Should we burn Danny in effigy, because he frustrated our expectations as fans?  Or do we realize that he was doing what he thought was right?

Ray did what he thought was right.  He made a decision that worked for him, and presumably his family.  That's his prerogative.  Some fans have a sense of entitlement that a man should be required to work some place he's not happy just because they offered him more money than somewhere else.  Who are we to tell somebody else where or how he should find happiness?

All things considered, Posey went to place where they offered him a contract too rich for us, Perk was going to leave us anyways in the offseason and we sent him to the eventual Western Conference Champions, and Powe we actually offered him market value contract, he chose the Cavs over us just because Ainge had other roster priorities to consider before getting to Powe who was out for an extended amount of time due to his ACL injury.

That said, I understand being a two-way street loyalty wise. But that's between Ray and Ainge. The Celtics community and it's fanbase should be a factor in Ray's decision on where to go to next, we weren't. So screw him, makes him a complete hypocrite.

And hate feelings of entitlement, that's not me. I understand Ray leaving. But at the very least, I would think that the fanbase is entitled to at least a bit of consideration for your future plans. I don't think that's much to ask.

[kozlodoev]

Why is Ray demonized for leaving the team, but Danny isn't vilified for attempting to trade Ray?

Ainge did what he thought was best for the team, Ray did what he thought was best for Ray.

You think there's a reason why Ray Allen is being villified and James Posey wasn't?

[Reyquila]

Sure Ray is going to do the same thing he did for us; except that from now on, he will do it for the World Champs of the NBA; playing with the best player in the NBA, and playing with a team that wants him. It dont seem to be the same thing he did last year. Sorry for being truthful. Stop beating a dead horse.