Penn State to get hammered by NCAA on Monday?

[guava_wrench]

If they are allowed to play football next year it will be a total sham

Why?  Anybody even remotely involved in this has been removed.  Why penalize the players?  New coaches? Students? etc...By eliminating the program?  How does that make anything better?  Or send a message?
  

Because otherwise there's very little incentive for schools to follow rules and police themselves. Why punish schools or try to encourage them to control their teams if they can just turn around and be like "Oh those people aren't here any more"?

That's why USC got punished even though Pete Carrol and Reggie Bush had already jumped ship.

That's why it would be nice if schools would put following rules into coaches contracts. It's harder to control the students and keep away agents because kids want to get paid what they're worth, which is something it would be nice to recognize and address.

Yeah but USC violated NCAA recruiting rules.  Penn State did not.

The school prioritized their football program over students. That is a big problem. Teams need to know that covering up such acts will lead to worse outcomes than acting and facing the music.

Schools have to be responsible so that they take seriously putting safety measures in place.

[sadleprechaun]

Still having a lot of trouble finding anyone who can tell me why it wouldn't make sense to let them keep playing football and donate all proceeds to an organization that fights child/sexual abuse.  Please tell me where there's a flaw in my idea.

Schools need to believe that there is a credible threat to them prioritizing their sports program over the welfare of the students under their care.

Besides, it is pretty standard to punish schools with tainted programs by limiting their level of participation. I see no reason why they should get creative to give Penn State special treatment. This is a institution that needs to remember what is important -- and it isn't sports teams.

Penn State of course should do a lot to help charities as mentioned. Instead of collecting alumni donations for the school, direct it towards charities. This is quite separate from the punishment their program should suffer.

Not sure I follow your logic.  If you think that Penn State should do a lot to help those charities, why not have those donations come directly from the money generated by the football program?  Doesn't that send a clear message that the school and the NCAA are doing what they can to right a wrong.

If other schools see that they may be forced to donate hundreds of millions of dollars to charities over an incident like this, don't you think that might prevent them from allowing something like this to happen in the future?

In terms of additional punishment to the football program, I'm not sure I see the need.  The program has (justifiably) taken a huge hit to its reputation.  The individuals who played any role should be punished, obviously, but why is it necessary to further punish the program?

[Moranis]

If they are allowed to play football next year it will be a total sham

Why?  Anybody even remotely involved in this has been removed.  Why penalize the players?  New coaches? Students? etc...By eliminating the program?  How does that make anything better?  Or send a message?
  

Because otherwise there's very little incentive for schools to follow rules and police themselves. Why punish schools or try to encourage them to control their teams if they can just turn around and be like "Oh those people aren't here any more"?

That's why USC got punished even though Pete Carrol and Reggie Bush had already jumped ship.

That's why it would be nice if schools would put following rules into coaches contracts. It's harder to control the students and keep away agents because kids want to get paid what they're worth, which is something it would be nice to recognize and address.

Yeah but USC violated NCAA recruiting rules.  Penn State did not.

Right. They only committed major felonies against children

Sure, which means jail time, it doesn't mean NCAA football violations. 

By that theory you could invite Al-Quaeda on campus and keep playing football. Which is possibly not as bad as what PSU actually did

What is your point?  That isn't a football recruiting or academic situation and shouldn't be treated as such. 

The Penn State situation isn't a violation of NCAA rules.  Even the articles all say that the NCAA had to create a special thing to do something here and that isn't right.  You can't change the rules to punish something after the fact.  That would be like you driving a white mustang, you get pulled over by the cops because you were driving a white mustang and then the government changes the law so that driving a white mustang is illegal and fines you for it. 

I imagine Penn State will sue the NCAA if it punishes them at all.  I certainly would.   

Lack of instituional control is the punishable offense.  Other sports programs have received the death penalty for lack of institutional control

But it is institutional control with respect to NCAA rule violations.  There were no NCAA rule violations.

[Moranis]

If they are allowed to play football next year it will be a total sham

Why?  Anybody even remotely involved in this has been removed.  Why penalize the players?  New coaches? Students? etc...By eliminating the program?  How does that make anything better?  Or send a message?
  

Because otherwise there's very little incentive for schools to follow rules and police themselves. Why punish schools or try to encourage them to control their teams if they can just turn around and be like "Oh those people aren't here any more"?

That's why USC got punished even though Pete Carrol and Reggie Bush had already jumped ship.

That's why it would be nice if schools would put following rules into coaches contracts. It's harder to control the students and keep away agents because kids want to get paid what they're worth, which is something it would be nice to recognize and address.

Yeah but USC violated NCAA recruiting rules.  Penn State did not.

The school prioritized their football program over students. That is a big problem. Teams need to know that covering up such acts will lead to worse outcomes than acting and facing the music.

Schools have to be responsible so that they take seriously putting safety measures in place.

None of the victims were Penn State students. 

[CoachCowens]

I'm wondering if Redsox fans feel the same way about their scandal as they do about the Penn State scandal. This was a very similar scandal but no one has been calling for the Sox to give up baseball for 2 years.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/donald-fitzpatrick-red-sox-sex-scandal_n_1095118.html

[Rondo2287]

I'm wondering if Redsox fans feel the same way about their scandal as they do about the Penn State scandal. This was a very similar scandal but no one has been calling for the Sox to give up baseball for 2 years.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/donald-fitzpatrick-red-sox-sex-scandal_n_1095118.html

I'd be fine with it, but also this made it even more upsetting as to why the redsox didnt come out sooner to distance themselves from Bill James comments on the subject.

[Roy H.]

The one reason I don't love the "death penalty" here is that it would be costing the jobs of hundreds of innocent people who had nothing to do with the scandal.  That doesn't sound just. 

[Celtics4ever]

I agree most of the people who are perps in this one are gone.   I too am glad they didn't get the death penalty.

[Rondo2287]

We'll see though, I heard a guy from Rivals saying that if they got 10+ scholarships taken away for 5 years it is equivalent to the Death Penalty.  20+ scholarships for 3 years its equivalent to the death penalty.  OR no TV at all for 2 years would be equivalent to the death penalty.

I talked to my uncle last night and he thinks that the NCAA has already used the death penalty bullet once for a football program and won't do it again, and will come up with something creative but equally as damaging.

[Rondo2287]

SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter
NCAA to announce "corrective & punitive measures" for Penn State starting at 8:30 am ET. WatchESPN » http://bit.ly/ncaa-penn-state

[Donoghus]

They'll get the book thrown at them.  It won't be called the "death penalty" but it'll be pretty darn damaging.  One thing I read yesterday was fines in the tens of millions.  Pretty significant scholarship losses.  No bowl appearances for a bit.

This is going to hurt them bad.

[Moranis]

SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter
NCAA to announce "corrective & punitive measures" for Penn State starting at 8:30 am ET. WatchESPN » http://bit.ly/ncaa-penn-state

NCAA press conference starts at 9

[Moranis]

Question:  Say Jerry Sandusky was not a child molester but a cat burglar.  Everything else is the same, do people still feel the same way about potential penalties?

[Rondo2287]

Question:  Say Jerry Sandusky was not a child molester but a cat burglar.  Everything else is the same, do people still feel the same way about potential penalties?

Does he use penn state as a way to lure his victims and then burgle them?

[Donoghus]

Question:  Say Jerry Sandusky was not a child molester but a cat burglar.  Everything else is the same, do people still feel the same way about potential penalties?

Molesting a child is a heckuva lot more heinous and damaging than burglary.  Theres not even a comparison.