Penn State to get hammered by NCAA on Monday?

[indeedproceed]

they need the death penalty. Your attempt at justifying no death penalty in the last paragraph is hilarious at best.

No.  The reason the NCAA should not give Penn State the death penalty is because, believe it or not, Penn State may not have violated NCAA rules.

Penn State - or more accurately, its former head coach, AD, and president - are guilty of crimes.  We have a system set up to deal with that, and as we found out with Sandusky, that system works just fine.

The NCAA should come down hard on Penn State for any violations of its rules.  I haven't heard anything that justifies the supposed "death penalty," but I am sure there is enough for them to lose scholarships and be banned from bowl games for a while.

SMU got the death penalty because it violated the NCAA's rules over and over and over again, in face of continuous warnings from the NCAA.  

An entire football institution not only failing to stop, but arguably enabling a member of its own staff to continually commit a felony on campus premises seems like it should be in violation of some sub-section or something.

[Rondo2287]

they need the death penalty. Your attempt at justifying no death penalty in the last paragraph is hilarious at best.

No.  The reason the NCAA should not give Penn State the death penalty is because, believe it or not, Penn State may not have violated NCAA rules.

Penn State - or more accurately, its former head coach, AD, and president - are guilty of crimes.  We have a system set up to deal with that, and as we found out with Sandusky, that system works just fine.

The NCAA should come down hard on Penn State for any violations of its rules.  I haven't heard anything that justifies the supposed "death penalty," but I am sure there is enough for them to lose scholarships and be banned from bowl games for a while.

SMU got the death penalty because it violated the NCAA's rules over and over and over again, in face of continuous warnings from the NCAA.  

An entire football institution not only failing to stop, but arguably enabling a member of its own staff to continually commit a felony on campus premises seems like it should be in violation of some sub-section or something.

It is, it's called lack of institutional control.  Sports have been given the death penalty for violations that same rule

[Eja117]

I still think no sports at all for one year and no football for 2 years is the way to go.

That's where I draw the line. I'm not punishing a gymnast for this. Although with less football revenue sports will suffer any way

[Eja117]

I wonder if the NCAA forces PSU to vacate wins since like 1998 or so, thereby dropping JoePa from the most wins thrown

[Moranis]

If they are allowed to play football next year it will be a total sham

Why?  Anybody even remotely involved in this has been removed.  Why penalize the players?  New coaches? Students? etc...By eliminating the program?  How does that make anything better?  Or send a message?
  

Because otherwise there's very little incentive for schools to follow rules and police themselves. Why punish schools or try to encourage them to control their teams if they can just turn around and be like "Oh those people aren't here any more"?

That's why USC got punished even though Pete Carrol and Reggie Bush had already jumped ship.

That's why it would be nice if schools would put following rules into coaches contracts. It's harder to control the students and keep away agents because kids want to get paid what they're worth, which is something it would be nice to recognize and address.

Yeah but USC violated NCAA recruiting rules.  Penn State did not.

[Eja117]

If they are allowed to play football next year it will be a total sham

Why?  Anybody even remotely involved in this has been removed.  Why penalize the players?  New coaches? Students? etc...By eliminating the program?  How does that make anything better?  Or send a message?
  

Because otherwise there's very little incentive for schools to follow rules and police themselves. Why punish schools or try to encourage them to control their teams if they can just turn around and be like "Oh those people aren't here any more"?

That's why USC got punished even though Pete Carrol and Reggie Bush had already jumped ship.

That's why it would be nice if schools would put following rules into coaches contracts. It's harder to control the students and keep away agents because kids want to get paid what they're worth, which is something it would be nice to recognize and address.

Yeah but USC violated NCAA recruiting rules.  Penn State did not.

Right. They only committed major felonies against children

[Moranis]

If they are allowed to play football next year it will be a total sham

Why?  Anybody even remotely involved in this has been removed.  Why penalize the players?  New coaches? Students? etc...By eliminating the program?  How does that make anything better?  Or send a message?
  

Because otherwise there's very little incentive for schools to follow rules and police themselves. Why punish schools or try to encourage them to control their teams if they can just turn around and be like "Oh those people aren't here any more"?

That's why USC got punished even though Pete Carrol and Reggie Bush had already jumped ship.

That's why it would be nice if schools would put following rules into coaches contracts. It's harder to control the students and keep away agents because kids want to get paid what they're worth, which is something it would be nice to recognize and address.

Yeah but USC violated NCAA recruiting rules.  Penn State did not.

Right. They only committed major felonies against children

Sure, which means jail time, it doesn't mean NCAA football violations. 

[Eja117]

If they are allowed to play football next year it will be a total sham

Why?  Anybody even remotely involved in this has been removed.  Why penalize the players?  New coaches? Students? etc...By eliminating the program?  How does that make anything better?  Or send a message?
  

Because otherwise there's very little incentive for schools to follow rules and police themselves. Why punish schools or try to encourage them to control their teams if they can just turn around and be like "Oh those people aren't here any more"?

That's why USC got punished even though Pete Carrol and Reggie Bush had already jumped ship.

That's why it would be nice if schools would put following rules into coaches contracts. It's harder to control the students and keep away agents because kids want to get paid what they're worth, which is something it would be nice to recognize and address.

Yeah but USC violated NCAA recruiting rules.  Penn State did not.

Right. They only committed major felonies against children

Sure, which means jail time, it doesn't mean NCAA football violations. 

By that theory you could invite Al-Quaeda on campus and keep playing football. Which is possibly not as bad as what PSU actually did

[indeedproceed]

If they are allowed to play football next year it will be a total sham

Why?  Anybody even remotely involved in this has been removed.  Why penalize the players?  New coaches? Students? etc...By eliminating the program?  How does that make anything better?  Or send a message?
 

Because otherwise there's very little incentive for schools to follow rules and police themselves. Why punish schools or try to encourage them to control their teams if they can just turn around and be like "Oh those people aren't here any more"?

That's why USC got punished even though Pete Carrol and Reggie Bush had already jumped ship.

That's why it would be nice if schools would put following rules into coaches contracts. It's harder to control the students and keep away agents because kids want to get paid what they're worth, which is something it would be nice to recognize and address.

Yeah but USC violated NCAA recruiting rules.  Penn State did not.

Right. They only committed major felonies against children

Sure, which means jail time, it doesn't mean NCAA football violations. 

I think that's a really terrible line to draw. The football administration, because of how far the conspiracy actually went, should be at fault here. Individuals yes, administration, yes.

[sadleprechaun]

Still having a lot of trouble finding anyone who can tell me why it wouldn't make sense to let them keep playing football and donate all proceeds to an organization that fights child/sexual abuse.  Please tell me where there's a flaw in my idea.

[Moranis]

If they are allowed to play football next year it will be a total sham

Why?  Anybody even remotely involved in this has been removed.  Why penalize the players?  New coaches? Students? etc...By eliminating the program?  How does that make anything better?  Or send a message?
  

Because otherwise there's very little incentive for schools to follow rules and police themselves. Why punish schools or try to encourage them to control their teams if they can just turn around and be like "Oh those people aren't here any more"?

That's why USC got punished even though Pete Carrol and Reggie Bush had already jumped ship.

That's why it would be nice if schools would put following rules into coaches contracts. It's harder to control the students and keep away agents because kids want to get paid what they're worth, which is something it would be nice to recognize and address.

Yeah but USC violated NCAA recruiting rules.  Penn State did not.

Right. They only committed major felonies against children

Sure, which means jail time, it doesn't mean NCAA football violations. 

By that theory you could invite Al-Quaeda on campus and keep playing football. Which is possibly not as bad as what PSU actually did

What is your point?  That isn't a football recruiting or academic situation and shouldn't be treated as such. 

The Penn State situation isn't a violation of NCAA rules.  Even the articles all say that the NCAA had to create a special thing to do something here and that isn't right.  You can't change the rules to punish something after the fact.  That would be like you driving a white mustang, you get pulled over by the cops because you were driving a white mustang and then the government changes the law so that driving a white mustang is illegal and fines you for it. 

I imagine Penn State will sue the NCAA if it punishes them at all.  I certainly would.   

[Rondo2287]

If they are allowed to play football next year it will be a total sham

Why?  Anybody even remotely involved in this has been removed.  Why penalize the players?  New coaches? Students? etc...By eliminating the program?  How does that make anything better?  Or send a message?
  

Because otherwise there's very little incentive for schools to follow rules and police themselves. Why punish schools or try to encourage them to control their teams if they can just turn around and be like "Oh those people aren't here any more"?

That's why USC got punished even though Pete Carrol and Reggie Bush had already jumped ship.

That's why it would be nice if schools would put following rules into coaches contracts. It's harder to control the students and keep away agents because kids want to get paid what they're worth, which is something it would be nice to recognize and address.

Yeah but USC violated NCAA recruiting rules.  Penn State did not.

Right. They only committed major felonies against children

Sure, which means jail time, it doesn't mean NCAA football violations. 

By that theory you could invite Al-Quaeda on campus and keep playing football. Which is possibly not as bad as what PSU actually did

What is your point?  That isn't a football recruiting or academic situation and shouldn't be treated as such. 

The Penn State situation isn't a violation of NCAA rules.  Even the articles all say that the NCAA had to create a special thing to do something here and that isn't right.  You can't change the rules to punish something after the fact.  That would be like you driving a white mustang, you get pulled over by the cops because you were driving a white mustang and then the government changes the law so that driving a white mustang is illegal and fines you for it. 

I imagine Penn State will sue the NCAA if it punishes them at all.  I certainly would.   

Lack of instituional control is the punishable offense.  Other sports programs have received the death penalty for lack of institutional control

[Neurotic Guy]

It is kind of pointless, would not help the kids, only punishes people who had nothing to do with the crimes don't you think?

I am for hammering the school.   I think they ought to have to educate every victim's family for free for eternity and pay cash for anguish etc.

I am with you.  Punish the program? I don't really care to be honest -- but how about doing something that might actually matter?   

99% of the effort right now should be on the victims and their families.  1% of effort should be on punishment.  The one who needs to be behind bars is there -- and will be there for the remainder of his life.  Now the focus should be on reducing the incidious tentacles of his abuse.  Victims of sexual abuse AND THEIR FAMILIES, suffer for lifetimes, and often for generations.  Victims are much more likely to be violent or emotional abusive to self or others.  There are high rates of suicide, mental health issues (PTSD, anxiety, depression....), drug/alcohol issues, and domestic abuse issues.

Some of the horrible results of Sandusky's terror can be mitigated through treatment and community support over time (open dialogue reducing the tendency to deny and bottle up rage, allow healthy ways to express self-blame/guilt...).  Additionally, parents of victims often experience such guilt that their lives are destroyed.  Spouses and children of victims often bare the brunt of unresolved pain (and become victims themselves).

99% of what I hear people discuss is about wanting vengence and punishment. Unfortunately, Sandusky's crimes live far longer than the incidents.  Victim care and prevention of future abuse should be the prime focus now that he is behind bars.  Penn State can become a leader in this field if they want to be -- or, they can take down statues and lay low biding their time till they can become a leader on the football field again.  What should their focus be?

[guava_wrench]

Still having a lot of trouble finding anyone who can tell me why it wouldn't make sense to let them keep playing football and donate all proceeds to an organization that fights child/sexual abuse.  Please tell me where there's a flaw in my idea.

Schools need to believe that there is a credible threat to them prioritizing their sports program over the welfare of the students under their care.

Besides, it is pretty standard to punish schools with tainted programs by limiting their level of participation. I see no reason why they should get creative to give Penn State special treatment. This is a institution that needs to remember what is important -- and it isn't sports teams.

Penn State of course should do a lot to help charities as mentioned. Instead of collecting alumni donations for the school, direct it towards charities. This is quite separate from the punishment their program should suffer.

[guava_wrench]

No, because in the end it'd likely weaken the Big 10 overall. What really needs to happen is that they need to lose a ton of money and the principals all need to go to jail.

Agreed.

I find it bizarre to even consider the financial hit to Penn State or to their conference. These are colleges! Why should their be any concern as to the profitability of their sports programs?