Jeff Green - what were our other options?

[wdleehi]

Last minute trades are different then the FA period.



Again, going by what we do know:

All we know is that the Celtics gave a backup SF a 4 year, 9 million dollar contract, coming off a heart issue and there was absolutely no talk of another team. 


In that case, it looks like the Celtics overpayed. 

[Interceptor]

I don't think it's quite fair to classify Jeff Green as a "backup SF". He's probably going to be a part-time PF this season, and looking further ahead, may be our starting SF of the future once Pierce moves on.

Doc made a big deal about how he had to throw away his lineup with JG at the 4, once the heart condition was found. JG didn't wow anyone playing PF in OKC, but he also wasn't playing next to KG, either. I personally want to see what Doc can do with JG this year.

We also don't know if all four years are guaranteed, do we?

And finally, gotta agree with the notion that we can't assume that other teams weren't interested in JG just because we didn't hear any rumors.

[wdleehi]

I don't think it's quite fair to classify Jeff Green as a "backup SF". He's probably going to be a part-time PF this season, and looking further ahead, may be our starting SF of the future once Pierce moves on.

Doc made a big deal about how he had to throw about his lineup with JG at the 4, once the heart condition was found. JG didn't wow anyone playing PF in OKC, but he also wasn't playing next to KG, either.

We also don't know if all four years are guaranteed, do we?

And finally, gotta agree with the notion that we can't assume that other teams weren't interested in JG just because we didn't hear any rumors.

Of course it is fair.


When everyone is healthy, Pierce is the staring SF. (and by far a better player)

[Mr October]

Everyone that says why are we bidding against ourselves and that no one was going to pay him that, must be some sort of insider with knowledge no one else has! All of that is speculation, I prefer to trust that DA wouldn't pay him if he didn't need to. You see he let RA hit the dirt and we had the money to pay him 3/27 b/c of his BR! I trust that there are things behind the scenes I don't know and DA does, so I can't judge what was the right or workable amount!

Where are the rumors that other team were interested? 


We hear rumors about Ronnie Brewer, but not Green?

It is possible. Heck top 20 player Deron Williams was traded to the Nets a year and a half ago without a peep of rumor of where he was going beforehand. All we knew was that things were souring in Utah. Not every bit of information leaks to rumor land first.

And based on listening to guys like Ric Bucher describe the nature of rumors, teams often leak rumor info to help gage public reaction to trades and such. Why would it be in anyone's interest to leak a Jeff Green interest rumor when the Celtics and Green had supreme mutual interest in resigning? It would have been a waste of time.

Yep. Perk trade is an example. So b/c we heard about no other teams, does that mean we are the ONLY team that wanted Green? Does that make ANY sense? I don't care if JG was coming off of two ankle surgeries some team would surely have interest in him!

I don't know, I guess people are right, we heard nothing about any other team with interest... that means he had to sign with us because no other teams wanted him at all...

Jeff thank your lucky stars we wanted you or you would be out of the league!


Or just maybe, We "The All Knowing CB", may not actually know much, if anything at all...

We have said "we do not know"



All we know is that the Celtics gave a backup SF a 4 year, 9 million dollar contract, coming off a heart issue and there was absolutely no talk of another team.  


In that case, it looks like the Celtics overpayed.  

Calling Green just a back up is mislabeling him. He has all the potential still to have a Lamar Odom on the Lakers type of impact. He's a young guy and the C's are also paying a little extra for potential.

I think a fair market value for Green is about 28/4, just above the MLE. If the Celtics didn't have Pierce, he'd be a starter. I think Green is somewhere between the 15th-20th best small forward in the NBA, along with the Marvin Williams types. So yes I agree that 34 or 36/4 is over paying a little, but only a little. Considering that the Celtics didn't have better options, what were they to do? Risk losing him and throwing away a chance to beat Miami?

As for returning from a heart condition. When that happens a player either can play or can't. There is no mysterious in between. Its not like he had drastic knee or back surgery, where the structure is unstable for the rest of his life.

[wdleehi]

Everyone that says why are we bidding against ourselves and that no one was going to pay him that, must be some sort of insider with knowledge no one else has! All of that is speculation, I prefer to trust that DA wouldn't pay him if he didn't need to. You see he let RA hit the dirt and we had the money to pay him 3/27 b/c of his BR! I trust that there are things behind the scenes I don't know and DA does, so I can't judge what was the right or workable amount!

Where are the rumors that other team were interested? 


We hear rumors about Ronnie Brewer, but not Green?

It is possible. Heck top 20 player Deron Williams was traded to the Nets a year and a half ago without a peep of rumor of where he was going beforehand. All we knew was that things were souring in Utah. Not every bit of information leaks to rumor land first.

And based on listening to guys like Ric Bucher describe the nature of rumors, teams often leak rumor info to help gage public reaction to trades and such. Why would it be in anyone's interest to leak a Jeff Green interest rumor when the Celtics and Green had supreme mutual interest in resigning? It would have been a waste of time.

Yep. Perk trade is an example. So b/c we heard about no other teams, does that mean we are the ONLY team that wanted Green? Does that make ANY sense? I don't care if JG was coming off of two ankle surgeries some team would surely have interest in him!

I don't know, I guess people are right, we heard nothing about any other team with interest... that means he had to sign with us because no other teams wanted him at all...

Jeff thank your lucky stars we wanted you or you would be out of the league!


Or just maybe, We "The All Knowing CB", may not actually know much, if anything at all...

We have said "we do not know"



All we know is that the Celtics gave a backup SF a 4 year, 9 million dollar contract, coming off a heart issue and there was absolutely no talk of another team.  


In that case, it looks like the Celtics overpayed.  

Calling Green just a back up is mislabeling him. He has all the potential still to have a Lamar Odom on the Lakers type of impact. He's a young guy and the C's are also paying a little extra for potential.

I think a fair market value for Green is about 28/4, just above the MLE. If the Celtics didn't have Pierce, he'd be a starter. I think Green is somewhere between the 15th-20th best small forward in the NBA, along with the Marvin Williams types. So yes I agree that 34 or 36/4 is over paying a little, but only a little. Considering that the Celtics didn't have better options, what were they to do? Risk losing him and throwing away a chance to beat Miami?

As for returning from a heart condition. When that happens a player either can play or can't. There is no mysterious in between. Its not like he had drastic knee or back surgery, where the structure is unstable for the rest of his life.

Is he the starting SF on this team when all are healthy?



Has he ever been as good as Odom?


The answer to both of course is "no"

[Interceptor]

The unfairness of the statement has nothing to do with Pierce starting. Calling JG a "backup SF" ignores his utility as PF in a smaller lineup. Doc had in it his plans, and if Doc took it seriously, so will I. The only difference is that everyone is a year older, and Ray is gone.

[wdleehi]

The unfairness of the statement has nothing to do with Pierce starting. Calling JG a "backup SF" ignores his utility as PF in a smaller lineup. Doc had in it his plans, and if Doc took it seriously, so will I. The only difference is that everyone is a year older, and Ray is gone.

Ok


Backup SF/PF.

[Q_FBE]

Looking back, I don't think there was another option for Danny. He punched the Jeff Green ticket with the Perkins trade. I hope he works out great and becomes an emerging star in this league. Him, Sullenger, and Rondo are the only three players I can think of that will be here five years from now. Probably you can add Avery Bradley to that list and the role players Pietrus and Brandon Bass. I hope that Fab Melo works out for us too.  

[BballTim]

Everyone that says why are we bidding against ourselves and that no one was going to pay him that, must be some sort of insider with knowledge no one else has! All of that is speculation, I prefer to trust that DA wouldn't pay him if he didn't need to. You see he let RA hit the dirt and we had the money to pay him 3/27 b/c of his BR! I trust that there are things behind the scenes I don't know and DA does, so I can't judge what was the right or workable amount!

Where are the rumors that other team were interested? 


We hear rumors about Ronnie Brewer, but not Green?

It is possible. Heck top 20 player Deron Williams was traded to the Nets a year and a half ago without a peep of rumor of where he was going beforehand. All we knew was that things were souring in Utah. Not every bit of information leaks to rumor land first.

And based on listening to guys like Ric Bucher describe the nature of rumors, teams often leak rumor info to help gage public reaction to trades and such. Why would it be in anyone's interest to leak a Jeff Green interest rumor when the Celtics and Green had supreme mutual interest in resigning? It would have been a waste of time.

Yep. Perk trade is an example. So b/c we heard about no other teams, does that mean we are the ONLY team that wanted Green? Does that make ANY sense? I don't care if JG was coming off of two ankle surgeries some team would surely have interest in him!

I don't know, I guess people are right, we heard nothing about any other team with interest... that means he had to sign with us because no other teams wanted him at all...

Jeff thank your lucky stars we wanted you or you would be out of the league!


Or just maybe, We "The All Knowing CB", may not actually know much, if anything at all...

We have said "we do not know"



All we know is that the Celtics gave a backup SF a 4 year, 9 million dollar contract, coming off a heart issue and there was absolutely no talk of another team.  


In that case, it looks like the Celtics overpayed.  

  First of all I don't know that I'd call him a backup sf since he's been a starter for almost his entire career.

  Also, there was plenty of talk of other teams looking at Jeff Green (even on celticsblog http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/6/17/3092676/jeff-green-getting-interest-around-the-league ). You didn't hear about individual teams talking contract with him because he didn't want to go anywhere else, just like we didn't hear about teams showing interest in KG.

[wdleehi]

Can someone explain to me how when everyone healthy, Jeff Green is not a backup even though he is coming off the bench?

[Mr October]

Nic Batum is out there.  Kris Humphries is available. 

But my problem isn't the amount of money in the first year, it was the total destruction of the future cap space.  If Green wouldn't accept a 1 yr, 9/10 million dollar deal then let him walk as he wasn't getting 4 years, 36 million from anyone else. 

Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you should waste it on role players and destroy all future flexibility ala the Detroit Pistons.

What future cap space? There would be none. By the time Green's contract would actually have a real impact on our salary cap, we'll be either way under the salary cap with the ability to sign free agents, or he'll be an expiring contract which will be easily moved with an athletic player, who's skilled, and still quite young.

And this situation is not even remotely similar to what went on with Detroit.

I see the similarities.  The only difference was the Celtics only gave out one of these contracts where Detroit gave out two. 

No the same thing. We used bird rights to get Green + have MLE + BAE at our disposal for furthering adding to our team, plus we're in the middle of trying to win a championship, not rebuild.

Detroit actually had a ton of cap space, and they wasted it. We merely resigned our players.

Once we sent Garnett 11 or so a year, we were no longer in a position to play the salary cap game, particularly with the indecision of Ray Allen in the balance, the agreement with Terry for MLE money, the resign of Bass.

The only way we'd be in a comparable position is if we renounced our free-agents, and then wasted that money on Ben Gordon. But we didn't. It's really not similar. Whether we signed or didn't sign Green to this contract we weren't going to be salary cap players in the next 3 years.

Yes, the situations make for a big difference. The Pistons were using tons of open cap space on 2 role players as the foundation of a team.

The Celtics have their core already: Rondo, KG, Pierce. Then come the big minute role players: Bradley, Green, Terry, Bass, Sullinger. The Celtics have very limited means to acquire role players.

[BballTim]

Nic Batum is out there.  Kris Humphries is available. 

But my problem isn't the amount of money in the first year, it was the total destruction of the future cap space.  If Green wouldn't accept a 1 yr, 9/10 million dollar deal then let him walk as he wasn't getting 4 years, 36 million from anyone else. 

Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you should waste it on role players and destroy all future flexibility ala the Detroit Pistons.

What future cap space? There would be none. By the time Green's contract would actually have a real impact on our salary cap, we'll be either way under the salary cap with the ability to sign free agents, or he'll be an expiring contract which will be easily moved with an athletic player, who's skilled, and still quite young.

And this situation is not even remotely similar to what went on with Detroit.

I see the similarities.  The only difference was the Celtics only gave out one of these contracts where Detroit gave out two. 

  Detroit let Okur walk so they'd have money to sign Ben Wallace, and then watched Wallace go to the Bulls. They also drafted Darko when Wade and Bosh were available. The team was toast well before they signed CV and Gordon.

[CelticG1]

Everyone that says why are we bidding against ourselves and that no one was going to pay him that, must be some sort of insider with knowledge no one else has! All of that is speculation, I prefer to trust that DA wouldn't pay him if he didn't need to. You see he let RA hit the dirt and we had the money to pay him 3/27 b/c of his BR! I trust that there are things behind the scenes I don't know and DA does, so I can't judge what was the right or workable amount!

Where are the rumors that other team were interested? 


We hear rumors about Ronnie Brewer, but not Green?

It is possible. Heck top 20 player Deron Williams was traded to the Nets a year and a half ago without a peep of rumor of where he was going beforehand. All we knew was that things were souring in Utah. Not every bit of information leaks to rumor land first.

And based on listening to guys like Ric Bucher describe the nature of rumors, teams often leak rumor info to help gage public reaction to trades and such. Why would it be in anyone's interest to leak a Jeff Green interest rumor when the Celtics and Green had supreme mutual interest in resigning? It would have been a waste of time.

Yep. Perk trade is an example. So b/c we heard about no other teams, does that mean we are the ONLY team that wanted Green? Does that make ANY sense? I don't care if JG was coming off of two ankle surgeries some team would surely have interest in him!

I don't know, I guess people are right, we heard nothing about any other team with interest... that means he had to sign with us because no other teams wanted him at all...

Jeff thank your lucky stars we wanted you or you would be out of the league!


Or just maybe, We "The All Knowing CB", may not actually know much, if anything at all...

We have said "we do not know"



All we know is that the Celtics gave a backup SF a 4 year, 9 million dollar contract, coming off a heart issue and there was absolutely no talk of another team.  


In that case, it looks like the Celtics overpayed.  

  First of all I don't know that I'd call him a backup sf since he's been a starter for almost his entire career.

  Also, there was plenty of talk of other teams looking at Jeff Green (even on celticsblog http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/6/17/3092676/jeff-green-getting-interest-around-the-league ). You didn't hear about individual teams talking contract with him because he didn't want to go anywhere else, just like we didn't hear about teams showing interest in KG.

Good point. We also didn't hear anything with other teams because we wrapped things up with them quickly.

This was our best and only option. Id love to pay Green 1 year or pay him less money but its not realistic. Plus I think he will be great for us.

[Mr October]

Can someone explain to me how when everyone healthy, Jeff Green is not a backup even though he is coming off the bench?

Would you just call Manu Ginobili a back up? He comes off the bench for San Antonio. Would you call Terry a back up to Stevenson on the Mavs a couple years ago?

Sometimes a player is best utilized on the bench for a particular team, even though he has starter talent.

Green is probably the 5th best player on the Celtics. He is a top 20 small forward in the NBA. He is not just a back up. 

[Moranis]

Nic Batum is out there.  Kris Humphries is available. 

But my problem isn't the amount of money in the first year, it was the total destruction of the future cap space.  If Green wouldn't accept a 1 yr, 9/10 million dollar deal then let him walk as he wasn't getting 4 years, 36 million from anyone else. 

Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you should waste it on role players and destroy all future flexibility ala the Detroit Pistons.

What future cap space? There would be none. By the time Green's contract would actually have a real impact on our salary cap, we'll be either way under the salary cap with the ability to sign free agents, or he'll be an expiring contract which will be easily moved with an athletic player, who's skilled, and still quite young.

And this situation is not even remotely similar to what went on with Detroit.

I see the similarities.  The only difference was the Celtics only gave out one of these contracts where Detroit gave out two. 

Boston also signed KG to a massive contract, gave Terry the full MLE for 3 years, signed Bass to a fairly large contract, and signed up Green.

I wouldn't have given any of those players the years they were given, including KG (though at least that one I get - the others not so much).