Jeff Green - what were our other options?

[Moranis]

Nic Batum is out there.  Kris Humphries is available. 

But my problem isn't the amount of money in the first year, it was the total destruction of the future cap space.  If Green wouldn't accept a 1 yr, 9/10 million dollar deal then let him walk as he wasn't getting 4 years, 36 million from anyone else. 

Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you should waste it on role players and destroy all future flexibility ala the Detroit Pistons.

[Interceptor]

We're stuck with this core (KG, Pierce, Rondo, Terry, Bass) of people making significant money for three years. Suppose that you pay JG more than the MLE, but less than 9M/yr. Does this afford you any meaningful extra cap space whatsoever before the end of the 2014-15 season?

Good will is worth something, and 9M buys you a lot of it.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Everyone that says why are we bidding against ourselves and that no one was going to pay him that, must be some sort of insider with knowledge no one else has! All of that is speculation, I prefer to trust that DA wouldn't pay him if he didn't need to. You see he let RA hit the dirt and we had the money to pay him 3/27 b/c of his BR! I trust that there are things behind the scenes I don't know and DA does, so I can't judge what was the right or workable amount!

[wdleehi]

We're stuck with this core (KG, Pierce, Rondo, Terry, Bass) of people making significant money for three years. Suppose that you pay JG more than the MLE, but less than 9M/yr. Does this afford you any meaningful extra cap space whatsoever before the end of the 2014-15 season?

Good will is worth something, and 9M buys you a lot of it.

Might make it easier to be under the MLE tax threshold next year.


And what about the year when all those other contracts are off the book?



And smart teams do not overpay just because it will not effect the cap space.

[wdleehi]

Everyone that says why are we bidding against ourselves and that no one was going to pay him that, must be some sort of insider with knowledge no one else has! All of that is speculation, I prefer to trust that DA wouldn't pay him if he didn't need to. You see he let RA hit the dirt and we had the money to pay him 3/27 b/c of his BR! I trust that there are things behind the scenes I don't know and DA does, so I can't judge what was the right or workable amount!

Where are the rumors that other team were interested? 


We hear rumors about Ronnie Brewer, but not Green?

[clover]

Grant Hill with the BAE

With no Jet or Ray.

[Mr October]

For all the people saying that no one else was bidding on Green keep this in mind.

1. Many transactions or almost transactions don't make it to the public rumor mill. We don't know for sure which teams did or didn't have interest.

2. After the first round of signings and matchings, there are often the desperate team or 2 that overpays on the next tier of free agents. We're not at that point yet.

3. Most importantly: Both the Celtics and Jeff's camp made is clear that they both wanted to get the deal done. We heard this from Doc, Danny, Wyc and even Falk went to far as to say Jeff Green's top 3 preferences are, "Boston, Boston and Boston." Why would another team get in the middle of that?

[Mr October]

Everyone that says why are we bidding against ourselves and that no one was going to pay him that, must be some sort of insider with knowledge no one else has! All of that is speculation, I prefer to trust that DA wouldn't pay him if he didn't need to. You see he let RA hit the dirt and we had the money to pay him 3/27 b/c of his BR! I trust that there are things behind the scenes I don't know and DA does, so I can't judge what was the right or workable amount!

Where are the rumors that other team were interested? 


We hear rumors about Ronnie Brewer, but not Green?

It is possible. Heck top 20 player Deron Williams was traded to the Nets a year and a half ago without a peep of rumor of where he was going beforehand. All we knew was that things were souring in Utah. Not every bit of information leaks to rumor land first.

And based on listening to guys like Ric Bucher describe the nature of rumors, teams often leak rumor info to help gage public reaction to trades and such. Why would it be in anyone's interest to leak a Jeff Green interest rumor when the Celtics and Green had supreme mutual interest in resigning? It would have been a waste of time.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Everyone that says why are we bidding against ourselves and that no one was going to pay him that, must be some sort of insider with knowledge no one else has! All of that is speculation, I prefer to trust that DA wouldn't pay him if he didn't need to. You see he let RA hit the dirt and we had the money to pay him 3/27 b/c of his BR! I trust that there are things behind the scenes I don't know and DA does, so I can't judge what was the right or workable amount!

Where are the rumors that other team were interested? 


We hear rumors about Ronnie Brewer, but not Green?

It is possible. Heck top 20 player Deron Williams was traded to the Nets a year and a half ago without a peep of rumor of where he was going beforehand. All we knew was that things were souring in Utah. Not every bit of information leaks to rumor land first.

And based on listening to guys like Ric Bucher describe the nature of rumors, teams often leak rumor info to help gage public reaction to trades and such. Why would it be in anyone's interest to leak a Jeff Green interest rumor when the Celtics and Green had supreme mutual interest in resigning? It would have been a waste of time.

Yep. Perk trade is an example. So b/c we heard about no other teams, does that mean we are the ONLY team that wanted Green? Does that make ANY sense? I don't care if JG was coming off of two ankle surgeries some team would surely have interest in him!

I don't know, I guess people are right, we heard nothing about any other team with interest... that means he had to sign with us because no other teams wanted him at all...

Jeff thank your lucky stars we wanted you or you would be out of the league!


Or just maybe, We "The All Knowing CB", may not actually know much, if anything at all...

[Interceptor]

Might make it easier to be under the MLE tax threshold next year.

So... does it? Cap math is not my forte. It's less of an issue in Year 3 of this plan with Pierce's gigantic contract coming off the books, and we're already using Year 1's for Terry, so next year is the one that's most at play.

And what about the year when all those other contracts are off the book?

Never liked the fourth year to begin with. I hope that it is a team option.

And smart teams do not overpay just because it will not effect the cap space.

There is undoubtedly a downside here, but JG is pretty important to this team. Our situation at Center and Pierce's declining ability to play big minutes pretty much guarantee that JG is going to get plenty of use on this roster. I'd wager that the use of the cap space was a calculated risk.

And as I said, don't underestimate good will. Our treatment of JG is arguably what allowed us to have a good shot at signing him in the first place, no? He was an UFA.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Nic Batum is out there.  Kris Humphries is available. 

But my problem isn't the amount of money in the first year, it was the total destruction of the future cap space.  If Green wouldn't accept a 1 yr, 9/10 million dollar deal then let him walk as he wasn't getting 4 years, 36 million from anyone else. 

Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you should waste it on role players and destroy all future flexibility ala the Detroit Pistons.

What future cap space? There would be none. By the time Green's contract would actually have a real impact on our salary cap, we'll be either way under the salary cap with the ability to sign free agents, or he'll be an expiring contract which will be easily moved with an athletic player, who's skilled, and still quite young.

And this situation is not even remotely similar to what went on with Detroit.

[wdleehi]

Everyone that says why are we bidding against ourselves and that no one was going to pay him that, must be some sort of insider with knowledge no one else has! All of that is speculation, I prefer to trust that DA wouldn't pay him if he didn't need to. You see he let RA hit the dirt and we had the money to pay him 3/27 b/c of his BR! I trust that there are things behind the scenes I don't know and DA does, so I can't judge what was the right or workable amount!

Where are the rumors that other team were interested? 


We hear rumors about Ronnie Brewer, but not Green?

It is possible. Heck top 20 player Deron Williams was traded to the Nets a year and a half ago without a peep of rumor of where he was going beforehand. All we knew was that things were souring in Utah. Not every bit of information leaks to rumor land first.

And based on listening to guys like Ric Bucher describe the nature of rumors, teams often leak rumor info to help gage public reaction to trades and such. Why would it be in anyone's interest to leak a Jeff Green interest rumor when the Celtics and Green had supreme mutual interest in resigning? It would have been a waste of time.

Yep. Perk trade is an example. So b/c we heard about no other teams, does that mean we are the ONLY team that wanted Green? Does that make ANY sense? I don't care if JG was coming off of two ankle surgeries some team would surely have interest in him!

I don't know, I guess people are right, we heard nothing about any other team with interest... that means he had to sign with us because no other teams wanted him at all...

Jeff thank your lucky stars we wanted you or you would be out of the league!


Or just maybe, We "The All Knowing CB", may not actually know much, if anything at all...

We have said "we do not know"



All we know is that the Celtics gave a backup SF a 4 year, 9 million dollar contract, coming off a heart issue and there was absolutely no talk of another team.  


In that case, it looks like the Celtics overpayed.  

[wdleehi]

Nic Batum is out there.  Kris Humphries is available. 

But my problem isn't the amount of money in the first year, it was the total destruction of the future cap space.  If Green wouldn't accept a 1 yr, 9/10 million dollar deal then let him walk as he wasn't getting 4 years, 36 million from anyone else. 

Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you should waste it on role players and destroy all future flexibility ala the Detroit Pistons.

What future cap space? There would be none. By the time Green's contract would actually have a real impact on our salary cap, we'll be either way under the salary cap with the ability to sign free agents, or he'll be an expiring contract which will be easily moved with an athletic player, who's skilled, and still quite young.

And this situation is not even remotely similar to what went on with Detroit.

I see the similarities.  The only difference was the Celtics only gave out one of these contracts where Detroit gave out two. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

Nic Batum is out there.  Kris Humphries is available. 

But my problem isn't the amount of money in the first year, it was the total destruction of the future cap space.  If Green wouldn't accept a 1 yr, 9/10 million dollar deal then let him walk as he wasn't getting 4 years, 36 million from anyone else. 

Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you should waste it on role players and destroy all future flexibility ala the Detroit Pistons.

What future cap space? There would be none. By the time Green's contract would actually have a real impact on our salary cap, we'll be either way under the salary cap with the ability to sign free agents, or he'll be an expiring contract which will be easily moved with an athletic player, who's skilled, and still quite young.

And this situation is not even remotely similar to what went on with Detroit.

I see the similarities.  The only difference was the Celtics only gave out one of these contracts where Detroit gave out two. 

No the same thing. We used bird rights to get Green + have MLE + BAE at our disposal for furthering adding to our team, plus we're in the middle of trying to win a championship, not rebuild.

Detroit actually had a ton of cap space, and they wasted it. We merely resigned our players.

Once we sent Garnett 11 or so a year, we were no longer in a position to play the salary cap game, particularly with the indecision of Ray Allen in the balance, the agreement with Terry for MLE money, the resign of Bass.

The only way we'd be in a comparable position is if we renounced our free-agents, and then wasted that money on Ben Gordon. But we didn't. It's really not similar. Whether we signed or didn't sign Green to this contract we weren't going to be salary cap players in the next 3 years.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Everyone that says why are we bidding against ourselves and that no one was going to pay him that, must be some sort of insider with knowledge no one else has! All of that is speculation, I prefer to trust that DA wouldn't pay him if he didn't need to. You see he let RA hit the dirt and we had the money to pay him 3/27 b/c of his BR! I trust that there are things behind the scenes I don't know and DA does, so I can't judge what was the right or workable amount!

Where are the rumors that other team were interested? 


We hear rumors about Ronnie Brewer, but not Green?

It is possible. Heck top 20 player Deron Williams was traded to the Nets a year and a half ago without a peep of rumor of where he was going beforehand. All we knew was that things were souring in Utah. Not every bit of information leaks to rumor land first.

And based on listening to guys like Ric Bucher describe the nature of rumors, teams often leak rumor info to help gage public reaction to trades and such. Why would it be in anyone's interest to leak a Jeff Green interest rumor when the Celtics and Green had supreme mutual interest in resigning? It would have been a waste of time.

Yep. Perk trade is an example. So b/c we heard about no other teams, does that mean we are the ONLY team that wanted Green? Does that make ANY sense? I don't care if JG was coming off of two ankle surgeries some team would surely have interest in him!

I don't know, I guess people are right, we heard nothing about any other team with interest... that means he had to sign with us because no other teams wanted him at all...

Jeff thank your lucky stars we wanted you or you would be out of the league!


Or just maybe, We "The All Knowing CB", may not actually know much, if anything at all...

We have said "we do not know"



All we know is that the Celtics gave a backup SF a 4 year, 9 million dollar contract, coming off a heart issue and there was absolutely no talk of another team.  


In that case, it looks like the Celtics overpayed.  

Yes, we didn't hear any talk but like I said, doesn't mean the people who need to hear the talk didn't! We are just outside observers, we don't hear much most of the time until it's pretty much a done deal! Like people have said before (me included), we heard NOTHING about the Perk trade, NOTHING! Didn't mean the wheeling and dealing wasn't going on b/c we didn't hear about it. That was one of the biggest moves in a long time for the Cs and still no info was leaked or even Perk as a possible trade didn't come up before it was a done deal!