Who is worse, ray Allen or Johnny Damon?

[Bankshot]

For the record I am holding out hope that ray has a "George bailey" type moment when he shakes Lebrons or rileys hand and comes back.

For those who say Damon to the Yankees is worse, at least the Yankees are a classy organization.  They don't throw championship parades before ever playing a game or prance around like fools.  Or even laughing at kg mid game this year like an ass.    It is just crazy to me that ray Allen of all people would not only tolerate that but want to be a part of it.

This.  I will never forgive Ray for leaving to playing with those classless punks!

[CelticG1]

If Damon went to the Yankees for less money it would be unheard of.

Id say that is pretty insulting as a Celtics fan, player or organization.

Pierce, KG, Wyc, Danny etc  basically looking at Ray saying "you've been on this team for 5 years, we are looking to contend again, and we will offer you more money than anyone else"

Turning that down is a huge slap in the face especially joining the team that just barely beat you in the playoffs.

And if he's upset about the Bradley thing or not starting that's sad that he doesn't have the confidence to win the starting job or that he can't accept the fact that his role is starting to change (even though it would be the same role on Miami)

[Celtics18]

Ray had a pretty tough year professionally.  He started off the season on fire.  He was playing better than or as well as anyone on the team while Paul Pierce and KG were still trying to work off all the doughnuts and lattes from the union meetings.  Yet, the team struggled, and he wasn't really getting any love for his play from the fans, the media, or even the organization itself.

He was embroiled in constant trade rumors, apparently even coming within a whisker of actually being traded for OJ Mayo.  

Meanwhile, he dropped out of the "Big Three" as Rondo clearly established himself as one of the key pieces to this team.  On top of that, it's seeminigly not easy for him to get along with our moody, feisty, ultra-competitive, young point guard.  Hey, he's supposed to be one of the "Big Three";  Who does this upstart think he is?

Then, there were the ankle issues that limited his ability to show what he could do late in the season and in the playoffs.  

Considering all these factors, I don't blame Ray for feeling hurt and under appreciated.  Have your little moment down in South Beach, Ray.  Then, go home and spend time with your family and lick your wounds.  

Then, ultimately, do the right thing, and re-sign with the Boston Celtics where you belong.

[rayallen1934]

Ray had a pretty tough year professionally.  He started off the season on fire.  He was playing better than or as well as anyone on the team while Paul Pierce and KG were still trying to work off all the doughnuts and lattes from the union meetings.  Yet, the team struggled, and he wasn't really getting any love for his play from the fans, the media, or even the organization itself.

He was embroiled in constant trade rumors, apparently even coming within a whisker of actually being traded for OJ Mayo.  

Meanwhile, he dropped out of the "Big Three" as Rondo clearly established himself as one of the key pieces to this team.  On top of that, it's seeminigly not easy for him to get along with our moody, feisty, ultra-competitive, young point guard.  Hey, he's supposed to be one of the "Big Three";  Who does this upstart think he is?

Then, there were the ankle issues that limited his ability to show what he could do late in the season and in the playoffs.  

Considering all these factors, I don't blame Ray for feeling hurt and under appreciated.  Have your little moment down in South Beach, Ray.  Then, go home and spend time with your family and lick your wounds.  

Then, ultimately, do the right thing, and re-sign with the Boston Celtics where you belong.

Aint gonna happen, I dont think Ray Allen wants to play behind Avery Bradley right now.

And I honestly think if the Celtics gave him the confidence that he is there guy, he would take the contract in a heart beat. Im almost positive he asked, and they told him Bradley is going to start.

So why fault him if he thinks he can still start.

I know he wont start in Miami, but he will be playing behind a top 5 player.

[CelticG1]

Ray had a pretty tough year professionally.  He started off the season on fire.  He was playing better than or as well as anyone on the team while Paul Pierce and KG were still trying to work off all the doughnuts and lattes from the union meetings.  Yet, the team struggled, and he wasn't really getting any love for his play from the fans, the media, or even the organization itself.

He was embroiled in constant trade rumors, apparently even coming within a whisker of actually being traded for OJ Mayo.  

Meanwhile, he dropped out of the "Big Three" as Rondo clearly established himself as one of the key pieces to this team.  On top of that, it's seeminigly not easy for him to get along with our moody, feisty, ultra-competitive, young point guard.  Hey, he's supposed to be one of the "Big Three";  Who does this upstart think he is?

Then, there were the ankle issues that limited his ability to show what he could do late in the season and in the playoffs.  

Considering all these factors, I don't blame Ray for feeling hurt and under appreciated.  Have your little moment down in South Beach, Ray.  Then, go home and spend time with your family and lick your wounds.  

Then, ultimately, do the right thing, and re-sign with the Boston Celtics where you belong.

Aint gonna happen, I dont think Ray Allen wants to play behind Avery Bradley right now.

And I honestly think if the Celtics gave him the confidence that he is there guy, he would take the contract in a heart beat. Im almost positive he asked, and they told him Bradley is going to start.

So why fault him if he thinks he can still start.

I know he wont start in Miami, but he will be playing behind a top 5 player.

Ray isn't the competitor I thought he was if he doesn't think he can beat out AB for a starting spot.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Ray Allen is worse. At least you can say Damon made a business decision by taking much more money and the Red Sox didn't care if they lost him. Celtics are offering more money and want him back bad.

Sadly, Ray is looking for years rather than money. I have a huge problem him going to the Heat, but I have no problem if he's looking for at least a 3 year deal, and the Celtics don't man-up and he looks for it elsewhere, even if less money is involved.

I don't know if it has to do with years or money if he leaves.

Are you saying that if the celts offer ray 3 years 9 mil(Miami's max offer ) he would come back to us but not at 2 for 12 mil?

Do you think this has been brought up to the Celtics and they are refusing? Id be shocked if the Celtics wouldn't do 3 for 9.

3 for 9 coming from the Celtics is a slap in the face offer, particularly after already offering 2 for 12, and even without that. There's a difference between a team low balling you severely, and a team giving you all they can.

I think 3 in 15-18 should do it, and even then Ray is getting a paycut of what he's worth. I think he's an 8-10 million player at the moment. Don't know if the way the market and the CBA is at the moment if anyone could manage it, but that's the value I place on Ray.

We really can't afford to give him that though, and doubt anyone will. So you give him 5-6 a year for 3 years, he's happy, you're happy. Deal gets done.

[Celtics18]

Ray had a pretty tough year professionally.  He started off the season on fire.  He was playing better than or as well as anyone on the team while Paul Pierce and KG were still trying to work off all the doughnuts and lattes from the union meetings.  Yet, the team struggled, and he wasn't really getting any love for his play from the fans, the media, or even the organization itself.

He was embroiled in constant trade rumors, apparently even coming within a whisker of actually being traded for OJ Mayo.  

Meanwhile, he dropped out of the "Big Three" as Rondo clearly established himself as one of the key pieces to this team.  On top of that, it's seeminigly not easy for him to get along with our moody, feisty, ultra-competitive, young point guard.  Hey, he's supposed to be one of the "Big Three";  Who does this upstart think he is?

Then, there were the ankle issues that limited his ability to show what he could do late in the season and in the playoffs.  

Considering all these factors, I don't blame Ray for feeling hurt and under appreciated.  Have your little moment down in South Beach, Ray.  Then, go home and spend time with your family and lick your wounds.  

Then, ultimately, do the right thing, and re-sign with the Boston Celtics where you belong.

Aint gonna happen, I dont think Ray Allen wants to play behind Avery Bradley right now.

And I honestly think if the Celtics gave him the confidence that he is there guy, he would take the contract in a heart beat. Im almost positive he asked, and they told him Bradley is going to start.

So why fault him if he thinks he can still start.

I know he wont start in Miami, but he will be playing behind a top 5 player.

I the think the phrase, "don't expect anything to be handed to you" applies here.  The Celtics have made him a very lucrative offer which is indicative that they want him back.  The confidence part has to come from Ray himself.

If he really wants to go to Miami, because he thinks it's going to be an easy, breezy stroll on the beach, then by all means, go ahead, Ray.

In the end, I expect better from Ray Allen.  I expect him to show his competitive spirit, and come back to the team that has been fighting together to upend the Miami Heat, not to join the competition. 

[CelticG1]

Ray Allen is worse. At least you can say Damon made a business decision by taking much more money and the Red Sox didn't care if they lost him. Celtics are offering more money and want him back bad.

Sadly, Ray is looking for years rather than money. I have a huge problem him going to the Heat, but I have no problem if he's looking for at least a 3 year deal, and the Celtics don't man-up and he looks for it elsewhere, even if less money is involved.

I don't know if it has to do with years or money if he leaves.

Are you saying that if the celts offer ray 3 years 9 mil(Miami's max offer ) he would come back to us but not at 2 for 12 mil?

Do you think this has been brought up to the Celtics and they are refusing? Id be shocked if the Celtics wouldn't do 3 for 9.

3 for 9 coming from the Celtics is a slap in the face offer, particularly after already offering 2 for 12, and even without that. There's a difference between a team low balling you severely, and a team giving you all they can.

I think 3 in 15-18 should do it, and even then Ray is getting a paycut of what he's worth. I think he's an 8-10 million player at the moment. Don't know if the way the market and the CBA is at the moment if anyone could manage it, but that's the value I place on Ray.

We really can't afford to give him that though, and doubt anyone will. So you give him 5-6 a year for 3 years, he's happy, you're happy. Deal gets done.

No matter how you slice it it makes ray look bad. If we offer the same years and money as Miami and ray is insulted but would go to Miami for that he looks bad. If he leaves more money on the table (2/12 mil) he looks bad, and of he will only take 3 years at double Miamis offer he looks bad and would basically be the same thing as telling the Celtics he has no interest in coming back.

If he is looking for years or money we could offer either. If he is looking for years and money he's just being unrealistic and basically will use that as a scapegoat,  all though the C's have basically put Ray in a situation where he will basically be flicking off the entire organization if he turns down our offer,  something he probably isn't thrilled about doing.

When james Posey or TA left it made sense. We weren't ponying up the money. Thia time around you can't say that we aren't offering enough and it will be completely about Ray not liking the Celtics organization. Its hard to look at it another way.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Ray Allen is worse. At least you can say Damon made a business decision by taking much more money and the Red Sox didn't care if they lost him. Celtics are offering more money and want him back bad.

Sadly, Ray is looking for years rather than money. I have a huge problem him going to the Heat, but I have no problem if he's looking for at least a 3 year deal, and the Celtics don't man-up and he looks for it elsewhere, even if less money is involved.

I don't know if it has to do with years or money if he leaves.

Are you saying that if the celts offer ray 3 years 9 mil(Miami's max offer ) he would come back to us but not at 2 for 12 mil?

Do you think this has been brought up to the Celtics and they are refusing? Id be shocked if the Celtics wouldn't do 3 for 9.

3 for 9 coming from the Celtics is a slap in the face offer, particularly after already offering 2 for 12, and even without that. There's a difference between a team low balling you severely, and a team giving you all they can.

I think 3 in 15-18 should do it, and even then Ray is getting a paycut of what he's worth. I think he's an 8-10 million player at the moment. Don't know if the way the market and the CBA is at the moment if anyone could manage it, but that's the value I place on Ray.

We really can't afford to give him that though, and doubt anyone will. So you give him 5-6 a year for 3 years, he's happy, you're happy. Deal gets done.

No matter how you slice it it makes ray look bad. If we offer the same years and money as Miami and ray is insulted but would go to Miami for that he looks bad. If he leaves more money on the table (2/12 mil) he looks bad, and of he will only take 3 years at double Miamis offer he looks bad and would basically be the same thing as telling the Celtics he has no interest in coming back.

If he is looking for years or money we could offer either. If he is looking for years and money he's just being unrealistic and basically will use that as a scapegoat,  all though the C's have basically put Ray in a situation where he will basically be flicking off the entire organization if he turns down our offer,  something he probably isn't thrilled about doing.

When james Posey or TA left it made sense. We weren't ponying up the money. Thia time around you can't say that we aren't offering enough and it will be completely about Ray not liking the Celtics organization. Its hard to look at it another way.

I've said multiple times that Ray would be dead to me if he goes to Miami, particularly with that offer.

But if you think that coming from the Celtics a 3 year 9 million deal is not an insult, and that Ray should just be a good solider and take it then I don't know if I can respect that sort of opinion.

I have no problem with Ray choosing another team over the Celtics for a 3 year in 9 million deal. I simply have a problem with it being Miami, and I feel that's a slap in the face if he would take that sort of offer from them.

[CelticG1]

Ray Allen is worse. At least you can say Damon made a business decision by taking much more money and the Red Sox didn't care if they lost him. Celtics are offering more money and want him back bad.

Sadly, Ray is looking for years rather than money. I have a huge problem him going to the Heat, but I have no problem if he's looking for at least a 3 year deal, and the Celtics don't man-up and he looks for it elsewhere, even if less money is involved.

I don't know if it has to do with years or money if he leaves.

Are you saying that if the celts offer ray 3 years 9 mil(Miami's max offer ) he would come back to us but not at 2 for 12 mil?

Do you think this has been brought up to the Celtics and they are refusing? Id be shocked if the Celtics wouldn't do 3 for 9.

3 for 9 coming from the Celtics is a slap in the face offer, particularly after already offering 2 for 12, and even without that. There's a difference between a team low balling you severely, and a team giving you all they can.

I think 3 in 15-18 should do it, and even then Ray is getting a paycut of what he's worth. I think he's an 8-10 million player at the moment. Don't know if the way the market and the CBA is at the moment if anyone could manage it, but that's the value I place on Ray.

We really can't afford to give him that though, and doubt anyone will. So you give him 5-6 a year for 3 years, he's happy, you're happy. Deal gets done.

No matter how you slice it it makes ray look bad. If we offer the same years and money as Miami and ray is insulted but would go to Miami for that he looks bad. If he leaves more money on the table (2/12 mil) he looks bad, and of he will only take 3 years at double Miamis offer he looks bad and would basically be the same thing as telling the Celtics he has no interest in coming back.

If he is looking for years or money we could offer either. If he is looking for years and money he's just being unrealistic and basically will use that as a scapegoat,  all though the C's have basically put Ray in a situation where he will basically be flicking off the entire organization if he turns down our offer,  something he probably isn't thrilled about doing.

When james Posey or TA left it made sense. We weren't ponying up the money. Thia time around you can't say that we aren't offering enough and it will be completely about Ray not liking the Celtics organization. Its hard to look at it another way.

I've said multiple times that Ray would be dead to me if he goes to Miami, particularly with that offer.

But if you think that coming from the Celtics a 3 year 9 million deal is not an insult, and that Ray should just be a good solider and take it then I don't know if I can respect that sort of opinion.

I have no problem with Ray choosing another team over the Celtics for a 3 year in 9 million deal. I simply have a problem with it being Miami, and I feel that's a slap in the face if he would take that sort of offer from them.

Well my point would be that its really not about the years with Ray. If people say "oh ray went to Miami because of more years" that would be false because the Celtics would match that offer in a heartbeat. That's what's so maddening about this as it feels like more of a personal decision rather than a business decision.

Essentially you are taking money out of the equation and its coming down to what organization Ray wants to be a part of

[RLewis35]

Now that it's happened...I am even more convinced that what Ray did was worse.

[cman88]

damon took more $$ than the red sox offered...as disheartening as that was, you could sort of see his line of thinking there.

the thing with Ray that IMO is worse is that he took LESS money to go to Miami...the c's clearly had the best offer on the table and ray still said "see ya im going to miami"

[RLewis35]

I think the big difference that is clear now is Ray INTENTIONALLY gave the Celtics the finger with this signing.  Johnny unintentionally gave the Red Sox the finger.  Sure he knew he was doing it by picking the Yankees, but he went with the most money.  Ray went out of his way to give us the finger.  It ain't right.

But let's ALL REMEMBER...Johnny won a title with the Yanks in 2009.  But not before his ex-teammates in Boston won in 2007.  That's the best possible payback.
LETS GO CELTICS

[BudweiserCeltic]

damon took more $$ than the red sox offered...as disheartening as that was, you could sort of see his line of thinking there.

the thing with Ray that IMO is worse is that he took LESS money to go to Miami...the c's clearly had the best offer on the table and ray still said "see ya im going to miami"

I would've liked to see a 3 year offer from the Celtics. I haven't heard anything. All I've heard was Ray wanting a 27 million deal over 3 years, which we couldn't afford (though not blaming him for asking).

I'm of the opinion that a well deserved 3 year deal would be along the lines of 15-18 million, and I would have thought that Ray would have accepted it.

But all I've seen offered was a 2 year deal, and I think that more than anything was the deal breaker. Still no excuse to go with Miami from where I'm standing, but I think the Celtics could have done a better effort to keep him at a reasonable affordable price.

I'd love to be proven differently.

[MaxAMillion]

Honestly I think ray leaving would be way worse to me as a fan. Johnny did not break up the band...Pedro and Lowe were already gone as the red sox did not want them back, so I kind of understood the business side a little more.  Also the sox did not lose to the Yankees in heartbreaking fashion in 05 before Johnny left.  Finally Johnny did not leave feeling he did not accomplish something in Boston.  With how close the celtics have been in two of the last three years to number 18 he has to have a sense of unfinished business.

To me ray Allen leaving kg and pierce to our bitter rival who we barely lost to this year is simply unforgivable.  I got over Johnny leaving and even thought he deserve cheers in Fenway.  I will not feel that way about ray.

I don't think either were wrong because they were free agents. Free agents by definition can go where they want. I don't think the Red Sox FO called Damon in and told him he was traded so I will go with Damon being worse.