Author Topic: Nets & Magic in serious discussions  (Read 18018 times)

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Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2012, 07:59:25 AM »

Offline Lioney

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DH+Hedo

Lopez+KH+Brooks+3 1st

This is the best opportunity for Orlando IMO. I would do this if I am the Magic. Not good for us, not good...

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2012, 08:00:34 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Rumored deal according to Broussard is:

Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, 2013 1st, 2015 1st, 2017 1st

for

Howard

First...it is Broussard.

Second...that really is a lukewarm deal.  2017 1st rounder!!

Third...the Nets will literally have no one left on their roster.

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2012, 08:00:53 AM »

Offline hansenp40

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I guess you can probably add Brooklyn to the list of teams Ray might be interested in now as well.

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2012, 08:04:04 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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that's an awful package for Dwight Howard, our offer could beat that.

Bradley >> Brooks
Green > Humphries
Bass < Lopez

Our 2nd rounders are arguably worth more than the Nets in 13, 15,17 seeing how they are probably in the 28-30 range. Our picks are early 2nd rounder,non guaranteed plus we got Melo,and JJJ.

But doens't matter,Dwight will only sign extension with Brooklyn.

Let's go get Smith , without giving up Bradley somehow! be creative Ainge.

That's one way of looking at it.  Some might say Brooks and Bradley are a little closer than you think.  Lopez is far superior asset to Brandon Bass.  I'll give you Humphries and Green as a wash. 

BTW, if I'm Orlando I counter that offer by asking for them to also take Hedo Turkaglu off our hands and give us Gerald Wallace in return.  Done deal.   

Marshon Brooks, Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace and three 1st rounders for Dwight and Hedo. 

I mean... Orlando would be getting 4 starters out of that.  Even if they didn't want to keep a couple of those guys, I'm sure they could easily get a 3rd or even a 4th team involved.  Like say they didn't want Brook Lopez... if this deal is a done deal and Lopez is getting a contract that is reasonable (10-12 mil or so), I'd gladly get Boston involved as a 3rd team... I'd happily send out Brandon Bass, Fab Melo and a 1st rounder if I'm taking back Brook Lopez.  Boston could do far worse than a 24 year old 7 footer true center who already proves capable of dumping 20 a night.

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2012, 08:05:06 AM »

Offline mctyson

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That Nets team would be a nightmare for Boston if things come to fruition. Pure nightmare.

Hoping Deron decides to go to Dallas. If Orlando refuses to trade Dwight, there's no way Brooklyn can get him and that'd be a major relief.

why, why, WHY???

I am still mystified as to why pairing Deron Williams with Dwight Howard automatically makes you a nightmare for anyone.  What exactly have those two done in their short NBA careers, outside of mutiny against coaches and ruining franchises, that warrants them that respect?


Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2012, 08:06:27 AM »

Offline Shoot the J

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If I'm the Magic, I trade him to a team that he absolutely will not resign with for two reasons.
First reason is that you should receive multiple future first round picks. If you trade him to the Nets where he wants to sign, that makes them good and likely to produce draft picks in the 20's. If you trade him to a team like Golden State (random bad team that has shown interest) he plays out the year, moves on, and Golden State, with no Howard or draft picks or good players becomes a terrible team again. So not only will you have received a handful of their best players, but also draft picks that project to be in the lottery.
Second reason is that it's simply one last kick in the a$$ for a guy who has crapped all over your franchise for the past few years. Send him somewhere that he does not want to be.

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2012, 08:06:42 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Rumored deal according to Broussard is:

Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, 2013 1st, 2015 1st, 2017 1st

for

Howard

First...it is Broussard.

Second...that really is a lukewarm deal.  2017 1st rounder!!

Third...the Nets will literally have no one left on their roster.
The Nets would literally have Deron Williams (top 3 point guard), Joe Johnson (6 time allstar), Dwight Howard (top 4 player/best big in the game) and Gerald Wallace.  Literally.

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2012, 08:07:06 AM »

Offline mctyson

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if i were the magic i rather kepp howard and try to swing a deal at the deadline, that really a nothing deal, the picks will be all late 20's cos dwight will be on the team, and lopez has been injury prone and crappy last couple of years, and humphries is just a role player. I rather a bynum or gasol package, hey every morey will give them a better deal for a rental.

If I am the Magic I am doing what is in my best interests and I am screwing over Dwight the first chance I get.

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2012, 08:09:17 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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If I'm the Magic, I trade him to a team that he absolutely will not resign with for two reasons.
First reason is that you should receive multiple future first round picks. If you trade him to the Nets where he wants to sign, that makes them good and likely to produce draft picks in the 20's. If you trade him to a team like Golden State (random bad team that has shown interest) he plays out the year, moves on, and Golden State, with no Howard or draft picks or good players becomes a terrible team again. So not only will you have received a handful of their best players, but also draft picks that project to be in the lottery.
Second reason is that it's simply one last kick in the a$$ for a guy who has crapped all over your franchise for the past few years. Send him somewhere that he does not want to be.

Cool plan... Golden State already said they have no interest in trading for Dwight without an extension.  Would you give up a lottery unprotected future pick for a 1 year rental of Dwight?  So they can lose Dwight AND lose a potential lotto pick a couple years later just for an extra kick to the groin? 

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2012, 08:13:13 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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That Nets team would be a nightmare for Boston if things come to fruition. Pure nightmare.

Hoping Deron decides to go to Dallas. If Orlando refuses to trade Dwight, there's no way Brooklyn can get him and that'd be a major relief.

why, why, WHY???

I am still mystified as to why pairing Deron Williams with Dwight Howard automatically makes you a nightmare for anyone.  What exactly have those two done in their short NBA careers, outside of mutiny against coaches and ruining franchises, that warrants them that respect?


WEll one of them is the best big man in the game and makes a team an instant contender just by being on there.

The other is a top 3 point guard who already proved he could lead a team to 4 straight playoff runs (50+ win teams) as the top dog. 

Put them together with a 6 time allstar who has been the best player on a team that's made the playoffs 5 years in a row... it's not too difficult to see why they'd be a threat.

When we're talking specifically about Boston.  Our team, as currently constructed, could barely contend with Dwight's size even when he was on a trash Orlando team.  Deron Williams and Rondo is a wash at the most.  Joe Johnson would beast on Avery Bradley.  Gerald Wallace would cause real problems for Paul Pierce.   If that Brooklyn team came together... I agree they'd be a certifiable nightmare.  Not just for Boston, but for every team in the league.

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2012, 08:20:10 AM »

Offline Shoot the J

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If I'm the Magic, I trade him to a team that he absolutely will not resign with for two reasons.
First reason is that you should receive multiple future first round picks. If you trade him to the Nets where he wants to sign, that makes them good and likely to produce draft picks in the 20's. If you trade him to a team like Golden State (random bad team that has shown interest) he plays out the year, moves on, and Golden State, with no Howard or draft picks or good players becomes a terrible team again. So not only will you have received a handful of their best players, but also draft picks that project to be in the lottery.
Second reason is that it's simply one last kick in the a$$ for a guy who has crapped all over your franchise for the past few years. Send him somewhere that he does not want to be.

Cool plan... Golden State already said they have no interest in trading for Dwight without an extension.  Would you give up a lottery unprotected future pick for a 1 year rental of Dwight?  So they can lose Dwight AND lose a potential lotto pick a couple years later just for an extra kick to the groin? 

Thanks! Maybe I should have used Houston, because they said they'd take their chances on convincing Howard to stay. Maybe that would have been a better choice.

Do I give up this much for a one year rental on Howard? No, I don't. I'm looking at it from Orlando's perspective, and with one team already on record saying that they'll take the risk, I'm trying like hell to send him somewhere other than Brooklyn.

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2012, 08:23:10 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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it has been reported that Houston always was willing to take a chance with a one year rental. If I was Orlando I would trade with Houston or Golden State because they could offer me the best package. It also doesn't hurt that not trading with Brooklyn would really stick it to the Nets.
Yeah it was reported Houston was willing to take a chance... but at what cost?  The more they give up, the less likely they'll compete and the less likely he'll stick around.  If we are talking about a couple middle 1st rounders... maybe it's worth the risk. But I have doubts that their package is better than Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Marshon Brooks and multiple 1st rounders.

As explained earlier... even if Orlando has no interest in a guy like Brook Lopez... clearly there are teams out there who do.  Roy Hibbert just got a max contract.  Omar Asik just got 30 million.  There's a major market for a 24 year old 7 feet tall center who averages 20 points and 2 blocks.  They could easily flip him for assets that fit their interests.  Who is giving Orlando a better asset than that? 

Ask yourself, as a Celtic fan, how much you'd be willing to give up for Dwight while he continues to say, "no interest in playing in Boston... no interest in signing an extension in Boston... if Boston trades for me, i'll wait for free agency and leave".  Are you giving up a package better than Marshon Brooks, Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries and three 1st rounders?  What would be the Celtic equivalent to that package?... if I'm being incredibly generous it would be JaJuan Johnson (marshon is a better asset), Avery Bradley (lopez is a better asset), Jeff Green (possibly equal with Humphries) and three 1st rounders.
Brooklyn is over the cap after trading for Joe Johnson, signing Wallace and potentially signing Deron. How are the Nets going to sign Dwight if they don't have the cap space to do so? If I was a gm I'd consider calling Dwight's bluff because the teams that he has listed as his favorites will be over the cap and not able to sign him outright.
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Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2012, 08:26:07 AM »

Offline mctyson

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That Nets team would be a nightmare for Boston if things come to fruition. Pure nightmare.

Hoping Deron decides to go to Dallas. If Orlando refuses to trade Dwight, there's no way Brooklyn can get him and that'd be a major relief.

why, why, WHY???

I am still mystified as to why pairing Deron Williams with Dwight Howard automatically makes you a nightmare for anyone.  What exactly have those two done in their short NBA careers, outside of mutiny against coaches and ruining franchises, that warrants them that respect?


WEll one of them is the best big man in the game and makes a team an instant contender just by being on there.

The other is a top 3 point guard who already proved he could lead a team to 4 straight playoff runs (50+ win teams) as the top dog. 

Put them together with a 6 time allstar who has been the best player on a team that's made the playoffs 5 years in a row... it's not too difficult to see why they'd be a threat.

When we're talking specifically about Boston.  Our team, as currently constructed, could barely contend with Dwight's size even when he was on a trash Orlando team.  Deron Williams and Rondo is a wash at the most.  Joe Johnson would beast on Avery Bradley.  Gerald Wallace would cause real problems for Paul Pierce.   If that Brooklyn team came together... I agree they'd be a certifiable nightmare.  Not just for Boston, but for every team in the league.

I just think we completely overrate Deron Williams and Dwight Howard as players.  Dwight took his team once to the NBA Finals where they got blown out by LA, and the only reason he got there was because KG went down with the knee injury.

D-Will was on some nice teams in Utah, but he is also a petulant b**ch who forced the resignation of their Hall of Fame coach.

Gerald Wallace?  A nice role player but nothing more than that.

Joe Johnson does not scare me one bit.

And all four of those guys have done NOTHING over the past few seasons.

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2012, 08:29:43 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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the real question is, if the Nets get Howard, does Josh Smith still love the direction of the Hawks franchise?

Re: Nets & Magic in serious discussions
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2012, 08:30:08 AM »

Offline chambers

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I'll continue to reiterate this point.  In some ways, Orlando should be thrilled that they gangstered Dwight into opting in for his final year.  He had zero intention of doing so.  He wanted to play out the rest of the year and then sign with Brooklyn.  Orlando would have been left with nothing and no teams were going to give up much for a half season rental of Dwight.  Basically all they could do was throw Dwight on the open market and accept the best package from any team willing to rent Dwight... so that's what they did.  Then they basically said they'd trade him to the Lakers (where he didn't want to play) unless he opted in.  Boom.  Gangster move.  At the time, the Nets had no reason to give up major assets either... why repeat the same mistake the Knicks made with Melo (giving up half their team for a guy they could have just signed the next year).  They would have been perfectly content waiting half a season, trying to improve their draft odds and THEN signing Dwight.  Orlando had no leverage and they gangstered that punk into giving them a little.

So now Dwight is making it clear that he has one team he'll sign an extension with (maybe 2 if you believe reports that Dallas is on his list).  Any other team would be taking a crazy risk if they were to give up major assets for a player who is coming off surgery and will probably leave them with nothing.  Who wants the privilege of being a sitting duck team?

Good news is... the Nets have been willing to give up anything other than Deron for a shot at Dwight, because they are desperate to keep Deron.  So that's one team that will be willing to play ball with Orlando.  But... Deron is supposedly giving his decision in the next 24-48 hours.  What happens if he decides he's willing to re-sign with Brooklyn independently of Dwight's situation?  Doesn't that essentially take the knife away from Brooklyn's throat?  I'm sure they'd be perfectly content just marching out a team of Deron, Joe Johnson, Gerald Wallace, Kris Humprhies, Brook Lopez and Marshon Brooks.  That's a playoff team right there.  The second Deron signs with Brooklyn... the pressure is no longer on them to throw the boat at Dwight.  If Orlando was smart, they'd recognize this... and fleece Brooklyn of everything they can before Deron makes his decision.

Or maybe I'm reading into it too much.  This is exactly how I saw it playing out months ago.  I guess if I'm Orlando, I could take a major risk... cross my fingers that Deron goes to Dallas and Dwight suddenly gives them a new list of teams that he'll extend with that doesn't include Brooklyn... but I say they should just take the Lopez/Humphries/Brooks/Picks package while they can and just be glad they didn't get left with nothing.  They used what little leverage they had... time to cash in for whatever they can get.

This is 100% spot on (TP) and it's amazing how intense this game of chicken between the Nets and the Magic has become.
The Magic's new GM has realized there is ZERO chance of re-signing Dwight Howard and that if he doesn't act now and give them a full extra season of Dwight, then he might just walk for nothing.
Take what you can get and be happy.

Also, anyone who thinks that Nets team wouldn't be a top 6-8 NBA team immediately is kidding themselves.
It would be like Orlando with the inside/out presence except Wallace and Williams could run the fast break, and Howard+Humprhies with Johnson and Williams could play inside outside.
Like a super-Orlando team with Williams, Johnson and Wallace instead of Nelson, Reddick and their other bums. (Ryan Anderson ain't a bum though).
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

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Read that last line again. One more time.