David Stern to Jim Rome: Have You Stopped Beating Your Wife Yet?

[Eja117]

Seems the people who think the lotto is rigged are the same people who believe that Stern fixes playoff games, favors superstars (like LeBron) and has an army of evil ref minions who pre-decide the results.

You mean like owners, GMs, and players in his own league? And refs that get investigated by the FBI, but not sued or charged with perjury?

It's just that he's done a horrid horrid horrid job of even attempting to convince people everything is on the up and up

[Celtics4ever]

Some people are pretty naive if they don't think their are "star calls" in this league.   I know a good optometrist folks if you need one.

Could it be that sports are little more than entertainment?

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500290_162-3168895.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/64946-nba-referees-25-0-against-las-vegas-david-stern-says-no-problem

Do you really think only one rogue was betting on games?   I do not look at all the insider trading in Congress.  NBA refs are not good at what they do in one game one can see about half the calls to one third are blown calls or missed calls.   No other sport has as much instant replay as the NBA and it is easier to notice.

[freshinthehouse]

Thing I don't get is... With all these awesome boneheaded conspiracy theories...  where you live in this fantasy world where the NBA operates like the WWE, our 2008 title is tarnished, all the results are fixed and the superstars are fabrications... Why do you even bother continuing to watch?  If it's happening it didn't just start happening... it's been happening since the mid 80s.  Either accept that you're watching theater (and thank Lord Stern for scripting our championship) or Go Away.  

TP.  Been saying this for years.  Either the conspiracy kooks don't believe what they are saying, or they are complete marks for continuing to play.

It would be like complaining about an obviously rigged slot machine at a casino, but continue to pump coins in anyway.

[ballin]

I wish Rome had been slightly more prepared for that.  There are just so many places he could have gone

"Ok. So you don't want to talk about that. Could you just tell us what bodies you buried and where they are then?"

"We talked about this last week. It was around the same time you stopped"

"No I haven't, but could you tell me if the lottery is fixed"

"I stopped in 2007, but could you tell me if the lottery is fixed"

"The only wife I beat is yours when we play bondage games, but it's all in good fun. She warned me you wouldn't like this question and you might try to sorta turn it around like this"

"I'm not married."

"Beating wives is what you think about?"

"You'd be hard pressed to find neighbors or coworkers of my wife that think I do that, but multiple owners and players in your league don't believe you. Why do you think there's that difference?"

****. these are pretty good, tp.

[KGs Knee]

Its the classic illustration of the type of question that assumes a fact without evidence. ie A classic trick question, now I don't think Rome structured his question that way but Stern clearly viewed it as an unfair question to ask him.

That's how I saw it too. I think a lot of people though around familiar with what the question actually implies.

To those who don't know, its a known 'trick question' technique like Fafnir said, where you have to assume something, whether true or not, to answer the question as a whole, in this example, Rome would have to assume he had 'beat his wife' just to answer the question at all.

Stern felt that Rome was implying that his question was a legitimate one, while Stern felt it was as outlandish as the example he used. I don't think Rome framed it in the classic context, but really asking a commissioner of a professional sport whether or not a major element of keeping their  league's integrity intact was 'fixed' is a pretty offensive question to even be asked with a straight face.

"loaded question", that's what I was looking for.

Nailed it.  Indeed sums it up here.  

It was a stupid question for Rome to ask.  The lotto isn't fixed.  Of course, people are going to interpret Stern's reaction with any possible negative spin they can give it, because it's as popular to hate David Stern as it is popular to hate LeBron James right now.  Neither of those guys can do no right by the public at this point.  

I agree there's just no way the lottery is fixed.  I don't believe games are fixed either.  Just wouldn't be good business.  That aside, the manner in which Stern handled the question, which was stupid, was childish and pathetic.

And to answer you last point, they (Stern and Rome) could both just go away.  I'm pretty sure that would make everyone happy.

[indeedproceed]

It's just that he's done a horrid horrid horrid job of even attempting to convince people everything is on the up and up

That's a place Stern has seriously failed. He obviously believes talking about it lends it legitimacy, and he wants to avoid helping the publicity in that direction in any fashion. It's a common one, the same reason Bill Clinton has publicly spazzed out at 911 'truthers'. It's a common tactic, because opening the door to those questions, even to publicly denounce them, only invites more. I don't have a problem with that tactic.

But I do think there are other ways to go about it. Like maybe doing a delayed live stream of the lottery process, and opening up the referee evaluation process like a regular basketball boxscore.

And the really sad thing of it all is that it could do so much more good than just assuaging concerns from the more imaginative critics. Look at what 'open sourcing' has done for actual boxscores. Look at the tools we (and nba coaches, GMs etc..) have now to better evaluate performances. PER, true shooting %, just so many. The same could be done for referees.

[guava_wrench]

Some people are pretty naive if they don't think their are "star calls" in this league.   I know a good optometrist folks if you need one.

Could it be that sports are little more than entertainment?

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500290_162-3168895.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/64946-nba-referees-25-0-against-las-vegas-david-stern-says-no-problem

Do you really think only one rogue was betting on games?   I do not look at all the insider trading in Congress.  NBA refs are not good at what they do in one game one can see about half the calls to one third are blown calls or missed calls.   No other sport has as much instant replay as the NBA and it is easier to notice.

Could you please cite the study you used for the claim that half to one third of calls are blown calls? Thanks in advance.

[KGs Knee]

Some people are pretty naive if they don't think their are "star calls" in this league.   I know a good optometrist folks if you need one.

Could it be that sports are little more than entertainment?

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500290_162-3168895.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/64946-nba-referees-25-0-against-las-vegas-david-stern-says-no-problem

Do you really think only one rogue was betting on games?   I do not look at all the insider trading in Congress.  NBA refs are not good at what they do in one game one can see about half the calls to one third are blown calls or missed calls.   No other sport has as much instant replay as the NBA and it is easier to notice.

Could you please cite the study you used for the claim that half to one third of calls are blown calls? Thanks in advance.

He was sighting my "eyeball test" study that prooves it.  And yes, in my opinion, at the very least, that many calls are missed.

Do you honestly think otherwise?

[LarBrd33]

if you wanna know if it is fixed just look at the combination each team gets they are sequenced so they all have one number in common, very easy to rig it this way

Elaborate.  I hear people saying this off-handed, but I don't know if they have actually given it thought.  There are four tumblers each containing 14 numbers.  A total of 1000 possible 4 digit combinations.  Each team has a certain number of combinations (the bobcats owned 250 of those combinations, for example).  Explain to me like I'm 4 years old how this is very easy to rig.

Then, keep in mind that the first time they ran the machine, a Hornets combination came up (thus they got the 1st pick).  The second time they ran the machine, a Bobcats combination came up (thus they got the 2nd pick).  The third time they ran the machine, the Hornets came up again ... so they tossed it out.  The forth time they ran the machine, the Bobcats came up again... so they tossed it out.  The fifth time they ran the machine, the Wizards came up (thus they got the 3rd pick)... Note:  Having teams come up multiple times and getting discarded tends to happen almost every year... which is why they don't show this process live.  The countdown from 14-to-1 makes for much more dramatic theater and a better half hour television special.  As a fan, I wouldn't have it any other way... I love the suspense... and so do you.

Again... explain to me like I'm 4 years old how this master trickery works.  Hornets - Bobcats - Hornets - Bobcats - Wizards.  Seems to me the "fix" came dangerously close to failing and ending up with the Bobcats winning.  Also... if you're gonna fix it, why not have Brooklyn come up?

Seriously though... read this article:  http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/05/30/nba-draft-lottery/

And his follow-up article:  http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/05/31/an-nba-draft-lottery-conspiracy-it-didnt-seem-that-way/... Each team had a representative present.  There was an Ernst & Young accountant watching it all.  

Here's what we know:

First combination:  6-4-9-7 (Hornets)
Second combination:  8-1-11-5 (Bobcats)
Two discarded combinations that aren't mentioned in the article.
Last combination:  13-7-3-2 (Wizards)

Now... I know in the people keep saying, "the balls could be weighted".  Ok.... they mean like the 1980 Pennsylvania Lottery scandal:

The 1980 Pennsylvania Lottery scandal, colloquially known as the Triple Six Fix, was a plot to rig the Daily Number, a three digit game the Pennsylvania Lottery offers. All of the balls except 4 and 6 were weighted, meaning that the drawing was almost sure to be a combination of only 4s and 6s. The scheme was successful in that 666, an expected result, was drawn on April 24, 1980; however, the unusual betting patterns alerted authorities to the matter...
 

In that instance, since only 4's and 6's could come up, the only possible combinations were: 444, 446, 464, 466, 644, 646, 664, and 666.

Again... explain to me like I'm 4 years old how you'd weigh balls in the 4 machines so that the combinations would come up 6-4-9-7, then 8-1-11-5 and eventually 13-7-3-2.  Keep in mind that had that 1980 Pennsylvania Lottery ran the system a total of 5 times, each time it would have come up with only 4's and 6's... it would have been painfully obvious that the fix was in.  But of course, the NBA lottery doesn't work like a conventional lottery.  They don't just run the system once and turn it off (which is where I think a lot of the ignorant general fans get confused).

It's just that he's done a horrid horrid horrid job of even attempting to convince people everything is on the up and up

That's a place Stern has seriously failed. He obviously believes talking about it lends it legitimacy, and he wants to avoid helping the publicity in that direction in any fashion.

Here's my thinking on this.  The information is readily available.  They spell out the entire process before the lotto show.  There is always 4 media members present and representatives from each team.  There are countless articles that detail the process.  There is information on ESPN and NBA.com spelling out the process.  I've shared this article several times now on this forum and people still insist it's fixed:  http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/05/30/nba-draft-lottery/ ...  It's one of those things where perception becomes reality.  I don't know if people are just stupid or stubborn, but the fact is... if the same nonsense just keeps getting repeated over and over it just continues to perpetuate the perception.  The general public is too stupid to care about the truth.  They just want their tabloid shock media to consume them so they can have something to gossip about over the water cooler or complain about on message boards.  Clearly explaining the process doesn't work... I completely see why Stern would prefer that people would just stop talking about it.  If they showed video of the lotto after the fact it wouldn't change anyone's opinion... they'd just blame CGI and David Blane.  We live in a country where 55% of people (on a recent CNN poll) recently said they didn't believe in evolution.  It's not like this info is hidden.  It's not like there aren't people trying to spread knowledge to the stupid.  It just doesn't matter...  We're a nation of ignorant idiots.  People just want to believe whatever they want to belive.  "Ya'll get outta here wit yer logics and facts"....

Then again... maybe I'm the daft one.  Someone explain to me like I'm 4 years old how they fixed the lotto.

[KevinConnor]

I'm kinda surprised Stern isn't being accused on this blog of the assassination of JFK back in 1963!

[LarBrd33]

I'm kinda surprised Stern isn't being accused on this blog of the assassination of JFK back in 1963!

Everyone knows that was LeBron James.

[Celtic Fan Forever]

I'm kinda surprised Stern isn't being accused on this blog of the assassination of JFK back in 1963!

Everyone knows that was LeBron James.

No, it was the refs!

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

That was childish of Stern no matter what some of you say! I don't get what is wrong with Rome asking the question, is it a stupid question... probably, to people who know the answer but for the LARGE MAJORITY of NBA watchers they want to hear Stern answer that question because they don't know! Stern could have handled the question in many different ways other than the way he did, for instance he could have said... "I realize a lot of NBA fans want to know if the lottery is fixed, well... all they need to do is search online to find that answer, we are open with how the process is done and the details are easily found, otherwise it would take too long for me to answer the question in a way that would be suitable. Me just saying no wouldn't do anything to stop the question, maybe if you understood the process you would understand how impossible it is for it to be rigged. Thank you."

[KevinConnor]

That was childish of Stern no matter what some of you say! I don't get what is wrong with Rome asking the question, is it a stupid question... probably, to people who know the answer but for the LARGE MAJORITY of NBA watchers they want to hear Stern answer that question because they don't know! Stern could have handled the question in many different ways other than the way he did, for instance he could have said... "I realize a lot of NBA fans want to know if the lottery is fixed, well... all they need to do is search online to find that answer, we are open with how the process is done and the details are easily found, otherwise it would take too long for me to answer the question in a way that would be suitable. Me just saying no wouldn't do anything to stop the question, maybe if you understood the process you would understand how impossible it is for it to be rigged. Thank you."

You truly expect Stern to answer a question like that? If Stern knows for a fact that the lottery isn't fixed he should be offended by such a question and refuse to answer it. Rome made it personal with that question. No need for that. Good thing Stern is way to smart for Rome.

[goCeltics]

I say again the only reason you would sequence the combinations for each team is to to be able to rig it, don't want a certain team number to appear make sure that ping pong ball that correspnds that that teams ping ball near appears. Every teams combinations all have one number in common, now ask yourself why you order it like that other than to be able to rig it? They may not rig all the time, but the point is that they have designed it so it can be easily rigged. iN 2007 all of the celtics and memphis combinations from memory has 1's and 2's, guess which numbers never came out of the lottery machine.  

The lotto itself useless and actually encourages the thing that it tries it stop, teams intentionally losing games at the end of the season. The reason being is that it incentives lowering your seed as much as possible with the carrot of getting the number one overall pick. Now we have a situation where not only are teams with say the three or four worst records are trying to lose games to increase their chances of getting a number overall pick, but teams five to fourteen are now further incentivised to lose games, as now only do they gain a higher draft pick by losing, but they also increase there chances of the number overall pick by losing. The latter would be absent without the lottery system as record wise usually these teams would not no hope of acheiving the number one overall pick not matter how many games they lost