Report: Cs looking to move up

[mmmmm]

Can't get to excited about the draft. No matter who they draft Doc will not play them.

but i am told on a daily basis how great a coach doc is. why not play these guys....maybe they could contribute. at least develop them. is doc going to rely on all his old players and FA's for the rest of his coaching career? I hope what you said was a joke because if not it is just plain dumb for a coach to do that. sorry. it is what it is.

I made this exact quote in another thread....

Why would we be joking? have you watched doc coach the past, i mean 8 years? Going all the way back to the Jefferson, Green, Rondo days when we were terrible and Doc wouldnt even play them then. Even then Doc relied on his more experienced players and wouldnt give the rookies development minutes to give them experience. Its been this way since Rivers has been a coach of the celtics.

very true.

Despite a number of people here that have said Doc plays young players, all of their examples have been players Doc had no choice but to play due to injuries/lack of vet options.  None of those that support that theory have been able to produce one example where Doc played someone young ahead of a healthy vet player (and name that vet player).


I think Doc's overrated as a coach (personally) and this would be one of those reasons.  A good coach can develop young players during the course of a season.  You see it on most other NBA teams but not in Boston (since Doc's arrival and especially since the big trades)

My question is..when does Danny or the owners tep in and say...Look, play these guys!

Yeah, I want to see KG come back, and I'd also be fine with Ray returning, but I suspect that Doc will play still play these guys 30-40 minutes a game and leave the youngsters languishing on the bench.

Look at how Popovich played his young guys regularly, and how much that helped the Spurs (and their older players) this season. I hope you're taking notes, Doc.

Yeah!  And look how much farther the Spurs got in the playoffs than the Celtics did!

Oh, wait ...

Seriously, this is such a non-issue.

Pop played his two young rooks because they were clearly his best options to play.  That was an exception.   It is simply very, very rare that rookies ever contribute on contending teams.   Doc is not really any different in this respect than most other good coaches.

This is a veteran dominated league.   Doc's track record on this is fine.  Rather than ask the question, "What rookie did Doc ever play out of choice rather than necessity?" a more telling question would be "What rookie did Doc bury on his bench that left to another team that turned out to be a stud?"

[Dchuck]

From what I've seen from Ross, he looks for real.  To me a better version of Marshon Brooks.  Someone you could slot in at the either wing position.  Everything we need at those spots; youth, crazy athleticism, length and size, sniper!

[mmmmm]

I can't believe Doc is still getting trashed about not playig young guys.  It's real simple; Doc plays guys who can play.  Plain and simple. 

Continually drafting in the 20's isn't going to get us guys that can play right away.  And while Avery broke out this year, he was garbage almost the entire year last year.  And wouldn't he be considered a young guy that Doc is playing now?

Yup.  As of the moment, Avery is STILL the youngest guy on our team.  Depending on who we draft, he could still be our youngest player next year as well (for example if we drafted seniors).

[MaxAMillion]

Can't get to excited about the draft. No matter who they draft Doc will not play them.

but i am told on a daily basis how great a coach doc is. why not play these guys....maybe they could contribute. at least develop them. is doc going to rely on all his old players and FA's for the rest of his coaching career? I hope what you said was a joke because if not it is just plain dumb for a coach to do that. sorry. it is what it is.

I made this exact quote in another thread....

Why would we be joking? have you watched doc coach the past, i mean 8 years? Going all the way back to the Jefferson, Green, Rondo days when we were terrible and Doc wouldnt even play them then. Even then Doc relied on his more experienced players and wouldnt give the rookies development minutes to give them experience. Its been this way since Rivers has been a coach of the celtics.

very true.

Despite a number of people here that have said Doc plays young players, all of their examples have been players Doc had no choice but to play due to injuries/lack of vet options.  None of those that support that theory have been able to produce one example where Doc played someone young ahead of a healthy vet player (and name that vet player).


I think Doc's overrated as a coach (personally) and this would be one of those reasons.  A good coach can develop young players during the course of a season.  You see it on most other NBA teams but not in Boston (since Doc's arrival and especially since the big trades)

My question is..when does Danny or the owners tep in and say...Look, play these guys!

Yeah, I want to see KG come back, and I'd also be fine with Ray returning, but I suspect that Doc will play still play these guys 30-40 minutes a game and leave the youngsters languishing on the bench.

Look at how Popovich played his young guys regularly, and how much that helped the Spurs (and their older players) this season. I hope you're taking notes, Doc.

Yeah!  And look how much farther the Spurs got in the playoffs than the Celtics did!

Oh, wait ...

Seriously, this is such a non-issue.

Pop played his two young rooks because they were clearly his best options to play.  That was an exception.   It is simply very, very rare that rookies ever contribute on contending teams.   Doc is not really any different in this respect than most other good coaches.

This is a veteran dominated league.   Doc's track record on this is fine.  Rather than ask the question, "What rookie did Doc ever play out of choice rather than necessity?" a more telling question would be "What rookie did Doc bury on his bench that left to another team that turned out to be a stud?"

These are the same people who cried because Giddens and Walker did not get to play enough. That crowd goes silent when those rookies don't develop into stars, but they start the process all over again when the next set of rookies get drafted.

I guarantee you that some people believe that the rookies from this 2012 draft should be playing more even before they know which players are getting drafted.

[CFAN38]

I think Bradley projects to be a better player than what you are likely to get from #10.

I have to agree with this based on this year production he should be a 15pt guy while shooting a solid percentage and playing all nba level Defense. Most teams would be happy to get that at #10

[More Banners]

I think Bradley projects to be a better player than what you are likely to get from #10.

I have to agree with this based on this year production he should be a 15pt guy while shooting a solid percentage and playing all nba level Defense. Most teams would be happy to get that at #10

This is why the C's need to move up:

Bradley is a 15ppg guy.
JGreen is a 15ppg guy.
Rondo is a 15ppg guy, too.
J3 is, at best, the same.

SO who is the scorer who is good enough offensively to create his own shot in a grinding playoff 4th quarter?

That's what we need, and why we need to move up...for our best chance at THAT guy.

And why all our young prospects and picks will be on the table for the chance to get THAT guy, including perhaps future picks?

How high could we get for some combination of

Bradley
Jujuan Johnson
both 1sts
Moore
2nd
conditional 2014 1st

[mctyson]

I think Bradley projects to be a better player than what you are likely to get from #10.

I have to agree with this based on this year production he should be a 15pt guy while shooting a solid percentage and playing all nba level Defense. Most teams would be happy to get that at #10

This is why the C's need to move up:

Bradley is a 15ppg guy.
JGreen is a 15ppg guy.
Rondo is a 15ppg guy, too.
J3 is, at best, the same.

SO who is the scorer who is good enough offensively to create his own shot in a grinding playoff 4th quarter?

That's what we need, and why we need to move up...for our best chance at THAT guy.

And why all our young prospects and picks will be on the table for the chance to get THAT guy, including perhaps future picks?

How high could we get for some combination of

Bradley
Jujuan Johnson
both 1sts
Moore
2nd
conditional 2014 1st

You know the answer to that question...the same guy who did it for us this year.

[2short]

I think Bradley projects to be a better player than what you are likely to get from #10.

I have to agree with this based on this year production he should be a 15pt guy while shooting a solid percentage and playing all nba level Defense. Most teams would be happy to get that at #10

This is why the C's need to move up:

Bradley is a 15ppg guy.
JGreen is a 15ppg guy.
Rondo is a 15ppg guy, too.
J3 is, at best, the same.

SO who is the scorer who is good enough offensively to create his own shot in a grinding playoff 4th quarter?

That's what we need, and why we need to move up...for our best chance at THAT guy.

And why all our young prospects and picks will be on the table for the chance to get THAT guy, including perhaps future picks?

How high could we get for some combination of

Bradley
Jujuan Johnson
both 1sts
Moore
2nd
conditional 2014 1st

good team game that anyone can take last shot or
4th quarter of the playoffs, give me the playoff triple double machine who can beat anyone off the dribble rajon rondo or one the most clutch players in celtics history paul pierce

[More Banners]

okay, okay...

Of course it's Pierce (for better or worse), but I think the point is that as he becomes even more ancient, banged up, and a bit slower, Danny should probably look for his replacement in the draft, rather than players to develop into the rotation to play around him in 3 years.

Pierce peaked 3-4 years ago.

[bigjohnson34st]

okay, okay...

Of course it's Pierce (for better or worse), but I think the point is that as he becomes even more ancient, banged up, and a bit slower, Danny should probably look for his replacement in the draft, rather than players to develop into the rotation to play around him in 3 years.

Pierce peaked 3-4 years ago.

Agreed. JG is the hier apparent. But again, PP is a hall of famer. His "replacement" will be a once in a generation player. I thin Austin has that potential. That is why we are moving up.

[Bombastic Jones]

I think Bradley projects to be a better player than what you are likely to get from #10.

That's reasonable but I like Leonard's potential.  I am hoping we can move up to get him.  Although I love Bradley too, I think he is one of the only valuable trading pieces we have and I would support moving him in the right deal.  If we could somehow get a pick in the 8 to 14 range for some combination of Green, JJJ, #21, #22 or future picks I would be thrilled to hang onto the Big Four and Bradley.

In my fantasyland it would look something like this:

Houston sends Lowry to N.O.; Camby and #16 to Celts.  Gets: Green, #22 & Okafor

N.O. sends #10 to Celts; Okafor to Houston. Get Lowry, JJJ, #21 & 2013 1st round.

Celts sends Green & 22 to Houston; #21, JJJ, and 2013 1st round to N.O.  Get Camby, #16, #10.

[More Banners]

okay, okay...

Of course it's Pierce (for better or worse), but I think the point is that as he becomes even more ancient, banged up, and a bit slower, Danny should probably look for his replacement in the draft, rather than players to develop into the rotation to play around him in 3 years.

Pierce peaked 3-4 years ago.

Agreed. JG is the hier apparent. But again, PP is a hall of famer. His "replacement" will be a once in a generation player. I thin Austin has that potential. That is why we are moving up.

Could be as true as anything else.  JG is definitely heir to the starting SF spot, but he's not an offensive killer. 

Finding someone with that ability in this draft could happen outside the top 5-10, right?

[CFAN38]

Quote from: CFAN38 on Today at 07:24:40 PM
Quote
I think Bradley projects to be a better player than what you are likely to get from #10.

I have to agree with this based on this year production he should be a 15pt guy while shooting a solid percentage and playing all nba level Defense. Most teams would be happy to get that at #10

This is why the C's need to move up:

Bradley is a 15ppg guy.
JGreen is a 15ppg guy.
Rondo is a 15ppg guy, too.
J3 is, at best, the same.

SO who is the scorer who is good enough offensively to create his own shot in a grinding playoff 4th quarter?

That's what we need, and why we need to move up...for our best chance at THAT guy.

And why all our young prospects and picks will be on the table for the chance to get THAT guy, including perhaps future picks?

How high could we get for some combination of

Bradley
Jujuan Johnson
both 1sts
Moore
2nd
conditional 2014 1st
good team game that anyone can take last shot or
4th quarter of the playoffs, give me the playoff triple double machine who can beat anyone off the dribble rajon rondo or one the most clutch players in celtics history paul pierce

I might be in the minority but im hoping the Cs buck the super star curb when it is time to rebuild.

I personally loved that the Billups lead pistons achieved with 5 boarder line allstars and no true super star.

give me 5 starters who each average 15pts a game and a great sixth man and Im very happy.

[bigjohnson34st]

okay, okay...

Of course it's Pierce (for better or worse), but I think the point is that as he becomes even more ancient, banged up, and a bit slower, Danny should probably look for his replacement in the draft, rather than players to develop into the rotation to play around him in 3 years.

Pierce peaked 3-4 years ago.

Agreed. JG is the hier apparent. But again, PP is a hall of famer. His "replacement" will be a once in a generation player. I thin Austin has that potential. That is why we are moving up.

Could be as true as anything else.  JG is definitely heir to the starting SF spot, but he's not an offensive killer. 

Finding someone with that ability in this draft could happen outside the top 5-10, right?

I think so. Keep in mind, that by making the finals this year I think we brought ourselves another "bridge" year.

[More Banners]

Quote from: CFAN38 on Today at 07:24:40 PM
Quote
I think Bradley projects to be a better player than what you are likely to get from #10.

I have to agree with this based on this year production he should be a 15pt guy while shooting a solid percentage and playing all nba level Defense. Most teams would be happy to get that at #10

This is why the C's need to move up:

Bradley is a 15ppg guy.
JGreen is a 15ppg guy.
Rondo is a 15ppg guy, too.
J3 is, at best, the same.

SO who is the scorer who is good enough offensively to create his own shot in a grinding playoff 4th quarter?

That's what we need, and why we need to move up...for our best chance at THAT guy.

And why all our young prospects and picks will be on the table for the chance to get THAT guy, including perhaps future picks?

How high could we get for some combination of

Bradley
Jujuan Johnson
both 1sts
Moore
2nd
conditional 2014 1st
good team game that anyone can take last shot or
4th quarter of the playoffs, give me the playoff triple double machine who can beat anyone off the dribble rajon rondo or one the most clutch players in celtics history paul pierce

I might be in the minority but im hoping the Cs buck the super star curb when it is time to rebuild.

I personally loved that the Billups lead pistons achieved with 5 boarder line allstars and no true super star.

give me 5 starters who each average 15pts a game and a great sixth man and Im very happy.

They had to be very happy with a lot of conference finals losses, though.  Set a record at it, I think.

Loved watching them succeed so much, though.  I do think someone needs to be the 4th quarter killer, too.  NBA defense is just too good at cutting off passes and packing paint, etc., especially in the playoffs, and the hand-check rules favor aggressive individual offensive players.  

That matters when you absolutely need a bucket at one time (like, 4th quarter or to end a scoring drought), even if it doesn't translate into long-term success.