Tim Duncan Hates KG?

[arambone]

Well-connected bookies love Crawford.

[Kane3387]

If Tim Duncan hates you, you must not be liked by virtually anyone.

I think this really supports the notion that KG is a bully, punk, dirty, or whatever you want to call him.  I mean Tim Duncan hates you.  That says a great deal.

Since when is Duncan the pulse of the NBA?
Actions on the court shouldn't reflect the true personality of that person
Reservedness doesn't always mean humbleness

Who said anything about on the court?  Duncan is almost always respectful off the court as well.  BTW, most everyone that talks about him talks about how respectful and humble he is.  

Yeah but to echo, nobody has ever had any illusions (or at least they shouldn't) that Garnett is anything but a complete (butt)hole to anyone who isn't a member of whatever team he's on. His whole deal is and always has been that on the court its almost a personal beef. He hates, like few others hate in the jaded, business-first post-AAU era of professional basketball.

So for a guy like Duncan, who has always seemed to get off more on the perfection of the game, more a of purist, its not really a surprise that he took Garnett's personal professional hatred of him personally and reciprocated.

I wasn't surprised at all that Duncan hates KG, I was just using it as proof that KG must really be **** if Duncan hates him (because Duncan doesn't hate anyone).  That was the point I was getting at.  

Kg might be ****, but he is ours and we gotta have his back.

[manl_lui]

Kobe and Dirk have similarly not met often in the playoffs.

As for myself, as Charles Barkley once said in response to who he wants in the Finals. "I want the Clippers!"

Which, isn't happening  .

yeh not happening, I hate the clippers this year, mainly cuz Blake became a bigger Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. and the whole Flop City thing...

Hope the Spurs sweep them.

[fairweatherfan06]

If Duncan hates KG he's entitled to that, although I find that to be a bit silly.  I have often hoped in this era of the big 3 for a Spurs v Celtics finals because it would allow a head to head comparison on the biggest stage of lot of interesting matchups/debates.

First and foremost being Duncan vs KG, followed by in no particular order

Doc v Pop (teacher vs arguably his best pupil)
Rondo v Parker (Parker continually disrespects Rondo and won't admit he's one of the league's best PG's just last year he said the league's best PG's were him, Nash, CP3, and Rose, really?)  Their games are similar I just think Rondo happens to be better.

Ray v Manu (super 6th man should be starters vs each other)

I'm reaching for this one but.... Pierce v Capt Jack (the professional scorer vs the professional defender capt vs capt maybe less of a reach than I thought)

Celtics defense v Spurs defense

Our role players vs Spurs role players

Regardless I think it would be a fascinating series.

[colincb]

Via Chris Ballard (in a good piece on Duncan):

In fact, Duncan hates Kevin Garnett. Hates him the way liberals hate Sean Hannity. This information comes from very reliable sources, who talk about how KG has made a career of trying to punk Duncan, baiting him and slapping him and whispering really weird smack into his ear. They talk about how funny this is, because the worst thing you can do as an opponent is p--- off Duncan. Then, as Malik Rose says, "he f------ destroys you." Duncan's lifetime numbers versus Garnett's teams, by the way: 19.4 points per game, 11.6 boards and a 44--17 record, including the postseason.

Duncan is diplomatic about the topic. Asked if perhaps all those years battling Garnett have softened his feelings for the man, led to a Magic-Larry type of kinship, Duncan leans back on the couch in his hotel room and grins. There is a pause. A longer pause. Finally he says, "Define kinship."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1198491/3/index.htm

I can't speak to the parts of the story that deal in rumor, but the underlined statistics in the quote above are just flat wrong...in an easily checked way.  Basketball-reference.com has a head-to-head feature that shows us ( http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=garneke01&p2=duncati01 ):

Regular season: Duncan's team record against KG's teams is 23 - 17

Duncan averages 19.9 points (46% FG, 63% FT), 12.2 reb, 3.3 ast, .5 steals, 1.9 blocks

Garnett averages 20.6 points (46% FG, 78% FT), 11.1 reb, 4.3 ast, 1.4 steals, 2.0 blocks

Playoffs: (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=garneke01&p2=duncati01#stats_playoffs )

Duncan's team record is 6 - 2.

Duncan averages 20.6 points (46% FG, 70% FT), 11.9 boards, 3.4 asts, .9 stls, 2.5 blocks

Garnett averages 21.4 points (45% FG, 80% FT), 12.0 boards, 4.0 asts, 1.4 stls, 1.8 blocks

Neither the individual stats nor the team record reported in that article are accurate.

I did the same analysis when I saw this last night.  As you stated, all the numbers in the article are wrong including the number of games, records, and stats. As far as saying the article is good, it's not.  Duncan doesn't say he hates KG either and given his reluctance to deal with the media, I wouldn't read much into this.  Kind of reminds me of Rondo's answers (and Pop's).
 
KG actually has a slight statistical advantage as far as NBA efficiency is concerned (equivalent to PER) in head-to-heads and both are great defensive players. There's really no evidence of any superiority except for Duncan's teams being better than Garnett's which is pretty obvious given the Duncan's team-mates vs KG's.


======

As long as some one raised the issue of TD's +/- in a playoffs

"Tim Duncan absolutely carried that Spurs squad in a way rarely matched.  We only have +/- data going back about a decade, but over that stretch I'm pretty sure that no one player has had a higher playoff on/off-court +/- on a team that won a championship than the roughly +24 that Duncan had on those Spurs.  He was dominant, and huge impact.,"

KG's so far is an amazing +54 before last night's game.

http://basketballvalue.com/index.php

[OsirusCeltics]

Hmmm....So Duncan supposedly hates KG.

All this means to me, is Duncan is a little thinner skinned than people thought he was.  This is exactly what KG does, get in your head.  If Duncan hates KG due to on-court antics, then KG accomplished what he set out to do.

KG the player and KG the person are separate.  People who can't understand that concept are missing the point.

I'm curious why, after all these years, a story like this would come out now though.  Maybe Duncan is scared he'll have to finally face KG in the playoffs on equal footing.  KG is a vastly better player at this point in their respective careers.

By the way, for my money, KG has always been the better player.  I felt this way long before KG ever came to Boston.

I agree to that wholeheartedly, TP
KG is better at Duncan at every facet of the game
Its just that better coaching, offensive system, and better teammates was always in Duncan's favor until recently when KG came to Boston

[Prof. Clutch]

Good. 

I like it when marquee players in the league don't like each other.  Old school basketball baby.

[celtsfan84]

If KG really is "in Duncan's head" and has a mental edge over Duncan, it was really a pretty useless edge in the short run and the long run.  That mental edge hasn't helped him to accomplish any more than Duncan has.  Personally, I think Duncan is better in several areas.

We should also keep in mind that Tim Duncan took less than the maximum at least twice to help his team put better players around him while Kevin Garnett did no such thing and was the highest paid player in basketball for several years.

One extreme example of this is in 03-04. Garnett made $28 million while Duncan made $13 million.  Would you rather have Garnett at 28 or Duncan at 13?  Heck, you could have afforded two Duncans.  Keep that in mind when dissecting who had the better teammates.

[indeedproceed]

If KG really is "in Duncan's head" and has a mental edge over Duncan, it was really a pretty useless edge in the short run and the long run.  That mental edge hasn't helped him to accomplish any more than Duncan has.  Personally, I think Duncan is better in several areas.

We should also keep in mind that Tim Duncan took less than the maximum at least twice to help his team put better players around him while Kevin Garnett did no such thing and was the highest paid player in basketball for several years.

One extreme example of this is in 03-04. Garnett made $28 million while Duncan made $13 million.  Would you rather have Garnett at 28 or Duncan at 13?  Heck, you could have afforded two Duncans.  Keep that in mind when dissecting who had the better teammates.

I don't know about all that, but I find it extremely, EXTREMELY unlikely that KG is in Duncan's head in any significant way. Duncan has shown over his career to be above that type of weakness. He might hate KG's guts, but I find it unlikely that there is any chance that translates into any sort of advantage for KG.

[bdm860]

If Tim Duncan hates you, you must not be liked by virtually anyone.

I think this really supports the notion that KG is a bully, punk, dirty, or whatever you want to call him.  I mean Tim Duncan hates you.  That says a great deal.

Since when is Duncan the pulse of the NBA?
Actions on the court shouldn't reflect the true personality of that person
Reservedness doesn't always mean humbleness

Who said anything about on the court?  Duncan is almost always respectful off the court as well.  BTW, most everyone that talks about him talks about how respectful and humble he is. 

Yeah thats my point. Kevin Garnett off the court is a total 180.  He is very humble, and many other people can account for that. People close to him say he never goes out night clubbing, reserved and never lets just anybody get close to him (as far as friendship). Yes he's an animal on the court, and I have no problem with that

No surprise that KG is hated on the court, but I'm a little surprised another superstar like Duncan would hate him, if only because I know they've spent at least some time together off the court where I usually assume these guys form friendships and get to know each other.





www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT213A0L1G0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOcQBXCqjw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNmm7r6grpA

So seeing each other off the court a few times, the photo shoots, the commercials, plus all the All-Star games they've both been a part of (and likely a few celebrity charity games too), I'm a little surprised that there would be "hate" there.  I guess I usually assume superstars close in age, more often than not, seem to have that special bond of at least mutual respect.  But everybody ain't for everybody.  Of course maybe this whole thing is just being blown out of proportion too.

Side note, I believe for the second Slam Kicks photo shoot, with 5 guys, KG was rocking a little beard.  The article mentioned about how when Duncan saw KG he said he looked like a skinny Rick Ross, which made everybody laugh, partially because most were surprised that Duncan knew who Rick Ross was. 

[Roy H.]

I find it extremely, EXTREMELY unlikely that KG is in Duncan's head in any significant way. Duncan has shown over his career to be above that type of weakness. He might hate KG's guts, but I find it unlikely that there is any chance that translates into any sort of advantage for KG.

Yeah.  In assessing mentally weak players, I'd rank Tim Duncan just about last in the NBA.

[Fafnir]

I find it extremely, EXTREMELY unlikely that KG is in Duncan's head in any significant way. Duncan has shown over his career to be above that type of weakness. He might hate KG's guts, but I find it unlikely that there is any chance that translates into any sort of advantage for KG.

Yeah.  In assessing mentally weak players, I'd rank Tim Duncan just about last in the NBA.

Yeah, the only time I've ever seen him spooked or shrink is a few games where his FT shooting was so bad he didn't want to get fouled.

But that was years ago and was a temporary thing.

[celtsfan84]

Sorry if my post was unclear, but I wanted to say that I also find it highly unlikely that Garnett was in Duncan's head.  Just saying that if he was, he didn't gain a thing from it.

[OsirusCeltics]

Since joining a real team (like Duncan's Spurs), KG is 4-3 against Duncan and averaging 17 PPG, 8 RPG, 2 APG.

Duncan had Robinson next to him in those early years and then he had Parker, Manu and Co. in the seasons after...

I'm not saying that Duncan isn't one of the greatest big men of all time,  but it's not like those SAS vs MIN match-ups were just Duncan vs. KG.

Exactly.

I still wonder from time to time how things would've been if KG had David Robinson, Manu or TP.


Or...if Tim Duncan had Sam Casell, Rasho Nesterovic, or Sprewell.......

In 2003, Tim Duncan's second leading scorer (Tony Parker) averaged 15.5 points per game, and 14.7 points in the playoffs.  Manu Ginobili averaged 7.6 points. I think sometimes people put too much emphasis on Duncan's supporting cast.  He was an individually great player who carried his teams to playoff success.

I wouldn't really go by those stats as evidence
Parker and Ginobili can average 5 points a game, but guess what, they are Parker and Ginobli
When they are on the floor, based on their pedigree, they demand attention. They could stink it up the whole game but teams always know the possibility of either of them burning them with a game winning jumper

Who on KG's teams (besides that one year with Cassell and Sprewell) was ever as good as Parker and Ginobili? Why in the world would teams give attention to Troy Hudson or Nesterovic?

Its the same like this Heat-Pacers series. Bosh may not be putting up gawdy stats and the best player on the Heat, but missing him in the lineup has greatly affected the Heat. The attention Bosh gets gives Wade and James the spacing they need to dominate driving the lane

Duncan has had way more help as far as a supporting cast than KG. Theres no doubt about that

[BballTim]

Via Chris Ballard (in a good piece on Duncan):

In fact, Duncan hates Kevin Garnett. Hates him the way liberals hate Sean Hannity. This information comes from very reliable sources, who talk about how KG has made a career of trying to punk Duncan, baiting him and slapping him and whispering really weird smack into his ear. They talk about how funny this is, because the worst thing you can do as an opponent is p--- off Duncan. Then, as Malik Rose says, "he f------ destroys you." Duncan's lifetime numbers versus Garnett's teams, by the way: 19.4 points per game, 11.6 boards and a 44--17 record, including the postseason.

Duncan is diplomatic about the topic. Asked if perhaps all those years battling Garnett have softened his feelings for the man, led to a Magic-Larry type of kinship, Duncan leans back on the couch in his hotel room and grins. There is a pause. A longer pause. Finally he says, "Define kinship."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1198491/3/index.htm

  Funny, it seems that I've read at least a hundred posts about how KG only picks on younger players and not the vet stars.