Tim Duncan Hates KG?

[Moranis]

If Tim Duncan hates you, you must not be liked by virtually anyone.

I think this really supports the notion that KG is a bully, punk, dirty, or whatever you want to call him.  I mean Tim Duncan hates you.  That says a great deal.

Can you ever say anything positive about our team?

Sure big win last night, team was clicking on all cylinders and if they can keep playing like that consistently actually have a pretty good shot at winning the title this year, something I didn't think was possible a month ago or even last week. 

[Roy H.]

Since joining a real team (like Duncan's Spurs), KG is 4-3 against Duncan and averaging 17 PPG, 8 RPG, 2 APG.

Duncan had Robinson next to him in those early years and then he had Parker, Manu and Co. in the seasons after...

I'm not saying that Duncan isn't one of the greatest big men of all time,  but it's not like those SAS vs MIN match-ups were just Duncan vs. KG.

Exactly.

I still wonder from time to time how things would've been if KG had David Robinson, Manu or TP.


Or...if Tim Duncan had Sam Casell, Rasho Nesterovic, or Sprewell.......

In 2003, Tim Duncan's second leading scorer (Tony Parker) averaged 15.5 points per game, and 14.7 points in the playoffs.  Manu Ginobili averaged 7.6 points. I think sometimes people put too much emphasis on Duncan's supporting cast.  He was an individually great player who carried his teams to playoff success.

[CelticG1]

Tim Duncan is the nicest guy in the NBA it is a fact!! And the only person he hates is KG!!

But seriously isn't the author saying Tim Duncan hates KG? And then basically says that Duncan doesn't admit that?

[indeedproceed]

If Tim Duncan hates you, you must not be liked by virtually anyone.

I think this really supports the notion that KG is a bully, punk, dirty, or whatever you want to call him.  I mean Tim Duncan hates you.  That says a great deal.

Since when is Duncan the pulse of the NBA?
Actions on the court shouldn't reflect the true personality of that person
Reservedness doesn't always mean humbleness

Who said anything about on the court?  Duncan is almost always respectful off the court as well.  BTW, most everyone that talks about him talks about how respectful and humble he is.  

Yeah but to echo, nobody has ever had any illusions (or at least they shouldn't) that Garnett is anything but a complete (butt)hole to anyone who isn't a member of whatever team he's on. His whole deal is and always has been that on the court its almost a personal beef. He hates, like few others hate in the jaded, business-first post-AAU era of professional basketball.

So for a guy like Duncan, who has always seemed to get off more on the perfection of the game, more a of purist, its not really a surprise that he took Garnett's personal professional hatred of him personally and reciprocated.

[StartOrien]

Since joining a real team (like Duncan's Spurs), KG is 4-3 against Duncan and averaging 17 PPG, 8 RPG, 2 APG.

Duncan had Robinson next to him in those early years and then he had Parker, Manu and Co. in the seasons after...

I'm not saying that Duncan isn't one of the greatest big men of all time,  but it's not like those SAS vs MIN match-ups were just Duncan vs. KG.

Exactly.

I still wonder from time to time how things would've been if KG had David Robinson, Manu or TP.


Or...if Tim Duncan had Sam Casell, Rasho Nesterovic, or Sprewell.......

In 2003, Tim Duncan's second leading scorer (Tony Parker) averaged 15.5 points per game, and 14.7 points in the playoffs.  Manu Ginobili averaged 7.6 points. I think sometimes people put too much emphasis on Duncan's supporting cast.  He was an individually great player who carried his teams to playoff success.

Overrate. Certainly.

But that still was still a considerably better cast than KG ever had in Minnesota.

34   Mengke Bateer   C   6-11   290   November 20, 1975   1   
12   Bruce Bowen   F   6-7   185   June 14, 1971   6   California State University, Fullerton
23   Devin Brown   G   6-5   220   December 30, 1978   R   University of Texas at San Antonio
10   Speedy Claxton   G   5-11   166   May 8, 1978   1   Hofstra University
21   Tim Duncan   F-C   6-11   248   April 25, 1976   5   Wake Forest University
35   Danny Ferry   F   6-10   230   October 17, 1966   12   Duke University
20   Manu Ginobili   G   6-6   210   July 28, 1977   R   
5   Anthony Goldwire   G   6-1   182   September 6, 1971   4   University of Houston
3   Stephen Jackson   F   6-8   218   April 5, 1978   2   Butler County Community College
25   Steve Kerr   G   6-3   175   September 27, 1965   14   University of Arizona
9   Tony Parker   G   6-2   180   May 17, 1982   1   
50   David Robinson   C   7-1   235   August 6, 1965   13   United States Naval Academy
31   Malik Rose   F   6-7   250   November 23, 1974   6   Drexel University
8   Steve Smith   G   6-7   200   March 31, 1969   11   Michigan State University
42   Kevin Willis   F-C   7-0   220   September 6, 1962   17   Michigan State University

EDIT: while a lot of those 'big' names were well past their prime, they were still very effective role players who complimented Duncan well.

[kgiessler]

Good, he should hate them.

KG is trying to win basketball games, not a popularity contest.

[Moranis]

If Tim Duncan hates you, you must not be liked by virtually anyone.

I think this really supports the notion that KG is a bully, punk, dirty, or whatever you want to call him.  I mean Tim Duncan hates you.  That says a great deal.

Since when is Duncan the pulse of the NBA?
Actions on the court shouldn't reflect the true personality of that person
Reservedness doesn't always mean humbleness

Who said anything about on the court?  Duncan is almost always respectful off the court as well.  BTW, most everyone that talks about him talks about how respectful and humble he is.  

Yeah but to echo, nobody has ever had any illusions (or at least they shouldn't) that Garnett is anything but a complete (butt)hole to anyone who isn't a member of whatever team he's on. His whole deal is and always has been that on the court its almost a personal beef. He hates, like few others hate in the jaded, business-first post-AAU era of professional basketball.

So for a guy like Duncan, who has always seemed to get off more on the perfection of the game, more a of purist, its not really a surprise that he took Garnett's personal professional hatred of him personally and reciprocated.

I wasn't surprised at all that Duncan hates KG, I was just using it as proof that KG must really be **** if Duncan hates him (because Duncan doesn't hate anyone).  That was the point I was getting at.  

[Employee8]

Since joining a real team (like Duncan's Spurs), KG is 4-3 against Duncan and averaging 17 PPG, 8 RPG, 2 APG.

Duncan had Robinson next to him in those early years and then he had Parker, Manu and Co. in the seasons after...

I'm not saying that Duncan isn't one of the greatest big men of all time,  but it's not like those SAS vs MIN match-ups were just Duncan vs. KG.

Exactly.

I still wonder from time to time how things would've been if KG had David Robinson, Manu or TP.


Or...if Tim Duncan had Sam Casell, Rasho Nesterovic, or Sprewell.......

In 2003, Tim Duncan's second leading scorer (Tony Parker) averaged 15.5 points per game, and 14.7 points in the playoffs.  Manu Ginobili averaged 7.6 points. I think sometimes people put too much emphasis on Duncan's supporting cast.  He was an individually great player who carried his teams to playoff success.

Stats alone don't tell the whole story of a team's success.  To me, it always starts with the front office and coaching, and Duncan's had that.  Team play has always been emphasized in San Antonio during Duncan's time.  They always have players who step up (Jackson, Bowen, Horry) in crunch time but that doesn't show up in the stat books.  The team is always loaded with playoff experience and consisently has that X-factor that allows them to win games.  Duncan has always benefitted from a great supporting cast.

[CelticG1]

Did fans really dislike KG that much prior to him on the C's. He was always one of my favorite non celtics- probably the only one. I always thought he wasgoing underappreciated with his rebounding titles, didn't he win a scoring title as well?

Always thought it was him, Shaq, and TD at the top echelon but KG being way overshadowed because of those laker/spurs teams.

[Fafnir]

Since joining a real team (like Duncan's Spurs), KG is 4-3 against Duncan and averaging 17 PPG, 8 RPG, 2 APG.

Duncan had Robinson next to him in those early years and then he had Parker, Manu and Co. in the seasons after...

I'm not saying that Duncan isn't one of the greatest big men of all time,  but it's not like those SAS vs MIN match-ups were just Duncan vs. KG.

Exactly.

I still wonder from time to time how things would've been if KG had David Robinson, Manu or TP.


Or...if Tim Duncan had Sam Casell, Rasho Nesterovic, or Sprewell.......

In 2003, Tim Duncan's second leading scorer (Tony Parker) averaged 15.5 points per game, and 14.7 points in the playoffs.  Manu Ginobili averaged 7.6 points. I think sometimes people put too much emphasis on Duncan's supporting cast.  He was an individually great player who carried his teams to playoff success.

He did offensively carry them, but that team didn't win on offense. Not to mention raw PPG tells you nothing, a second scorer who has 15 PPG on 20 shots being a different animal than one who does it on 20 (Man I forgot how streaky TP was back then looking at the logs)

Duncan's supporting cast wasn't always amazing, its more that KG's was amazingingly bad for the vast majority of his prime.

[OsirusCeltics]

If Tim Duncan hates you, you must not be liked by virtually anyone.

I think this really supports the notion that KG is a bully, punk, dirty, or whatever you want to call him.  I mean Tim Duncan hates you.  That says a great deal.

Since when is Duncan the pulse of the NBA?
Actions on the court shouldn't reflect the true personality of that person
Reservedness doesn't always mean humbleness

Who said anything about on the court?  Duncan is almost always respectful off the court as well.  BTW, most everyone that talks about him talks about how respectful and humble he is.  

Yeah thats my point. Kevin Garnett off the court is a total 180.  He is very humble, and many other people can account for that. People close to him say he never goes out night clubbing, reserved and never lets just anybody get close to him (as far as friendship). Yes he's an animal on the court, and I have no problem with that

[CelticHooligan3]

If Tim Duncan hates you, you must not be liked by virtually anyone.

I think this really supports the notion that KG is a bully, punk, dirty, or whatever you want to call him.  I mean Tim Duncan hates you.  That says a great deal.

Since when is Duncan the pulse of the NBA?
Actions on the court shouldn't reflect the true personality of that person
Reservedness doesn't always mean humbleness

Who said anything about on the court?  Duncan is almost always respectful off the court as well.  BTW, most everyone that talks about him talks about how respectful and humble he is.  

Yeah but to echo, nobody has ever had any illusions (or at least they shouldn't) that Garnett is anything but a complete (butt)hole to anyone who isn't a member of whatever team he's on. His whole deal is and always has been that on the court its almost a personal beef. He hates, like few others hate in the jaded, business-first post-AAU era of professional basketball.

So for a guy like Duncan, who has always seemed to get off more on the perfection of the game, more a of purist, its not really a surprise that he took Garnett's personal professional hatred of him personally and reciprocated.

I wasn't surprised at all that Duncan hates KG, I was just using it as proof that KG must really be **** if Duncan hates him (because Duncan doesn't hate anyone).  That was the point I was getting at.  

Pretty sure Duncan also hates Joey Crawford.. So there's that.  

[drza44]

Via Chris Ballard (in a good piece on Duncan):

In fact, Duncan hates Kevin Garnett. Hates him the way liberals hate Sean Hannity. This information comes from very reliable sources, who talk about how KG has made a career of trying to punk Duncan, baiting him and slapping him and whispering really weird smack into his ear. They talk about how funny this is, because the worst thing you can do as an opponent is p--- off Duncan. Then, as Malik Rose says, "he f------ destroys you." Duncan's lifetime numbers versus Garnett's teams, by the way: 19.4 points per game, 11.6 boards and a 44--17 record, including the postseason.

Duncan is diplomatic about the topic. Asked if perhaps all those years battling Garnett have softened his feelings for the man, led to a Magic-Larry type of kinship, Duncan leans back on the couch in his hotel room and grins. There is a pause. A longer pause. Finally he says, "Define kinship."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1198491/3/index.htm

I can't speak to the parts of the story that deal in rumor, but the underlined statistics in the quote above are just flat wrong...in an easily checked way.  Basketball-reference.com has a head-to-head feature that shows us ( http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=garneke01&p2=duncati01 ):

Regular season: Duncan's team record against KG's teams is 23 - 17

Duncan averages 19.9 points (46% FG, 63% FT), 12.2 reb, 3.3 ast, .5 steals, 1.9 blocks

Garnett averages 20.6 points (46% FG, 78% FT), 11.1 reb, 4.3 ast, 1.4 steals, 2.0 blocks

Playoffs: (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=garneke01&p2=duncati01#stats_playoffs )

Duncan's team record is 6 - 2.

Duncan averages 20.6 points (46% FG, 70% FT), 11.9 boards, 3.4 asts, .9 stls, 2.5 blocks

Garnett averages 21.4 points (45% FG, 80% FT), 12.0 boards, 4.0 asts, 1.4 stls, 1.8 blocks

Neither the individual stats nor the team record reported in that article are accurate.

[Roy H.]

Since joining a real team (like Duncan's Spurs), KG is 4-3 against Duncan and averaging 17 PPG, 8 RPG, 2 APG.

Duncan had Robinson next to him in those early years and then he had Parker, Manu and Co. in the seasons after...

I'm not saying that Duncan isn't one of the greatest big men of all time,  but it's not like those SAS vs MIN match-ups were just Duncan vs. KG.

Exactly.

I still wonder from time to time how things would've been if KG had David Robinson, Manu or TP.


Or...if Tim Duncan had Sam Casell, Rasho Nesterovic, or Sprewell.......

In 2003, Tim Duncan's second leading scorer (Tony Parker) averaged 15.5 points per game, and 14.7 points in the playoffs.  Manu Ginobili averaged 7.6 points. I think sometimes people put too much emphasis on Duncan's supporting cast.  He was an individually great player who carried his teams to playoff success.

Overrate. Certainly.

But that still was still a considerably better cast than KG ever had in Minnesota.

34   Mengke Bateer   C   6-11   290   November 20, 1975   1   
12   Bruce Bowen   F   6-7   185   June 14, 1971   6   California State University, Fullerton
23   Devin Brown   G   6-5   220   December 30, 1978   R   University of Texas at San Antonio
10   Speedy Claxton   G   5-11   166   May 8, 1978   1   Hofstra University
21   Tim Duncan   F-C   6-11   248   April 25, 1976   5   Wake Forest University
35   Danny Ferry   F   6-10   230   October 17, 1966   12   Duke University
20   Manu Ginobili   G   6-6   210   July 28, 1977   R   
5   Anthony Goldwire   G   6-1   182   September 6, 1971   4   University of Houston
3   Stephen Jackson   F   6-8   218   April 5, 1978   2   Butler County Community College
25   Steve Kerr   G   6-3   175   September 27, 1965   14   University of Arizona
9   Tony Parker   G   6-2   180   May 17, 1982   1   
50   David Robinson   C   7-1   235   August 6, 1965   13   United States Naval Academy
31   Malik Rose   F   6-7   250   November 23, 1974   6   Drexel University
8   Steve Smith   G   6-7   200   March 31, 1969   11   Michigan State University
42   Kevin Willis   F-C   7-0   220   September 6, 1962   17   Michigan State University

That's only if you look at names like "Manu Ginobili", "David Robinson", and "Tony Parker", and judge them like the players they later became or previously were.

That season, none of those guys were anything all that special.  Certainly, nobody on that team was playing at an all-star level outside of Duncan.

Is that really better than any supporting cast KG has had?  Better than Cassell (19.8 points) and Sprewell (16.8 points), along with Wally Z?  Or Wally, Chauncey Billups, and Terrell Brandon?

I don't think that that 2003 Spurs team is "considerably better" than what KG had at his disposal.  In fact, I think it's probably worse than KG's best teams.

[Moranis]

Since joining a real team (like Duncan's Spurs), KG is 4-3 against Duncan and averaging 17 PPG, 8 RPG, 2 APG.

Duncan had Robinson next to him in those early years and then he had Parker, Manu and Co. in the seasons after...

I'm not saying that Duncan isn't one of the greatest big men of all time,  but it's not like those SAS vs MIN match-ups were just Duncan vs. KG.

Exactly.

I still wonder from time to time how things would've been if KG had David Robinson, Manu or TP.


Or...if Tim Duncan had Sam Casell, Rasho Nesterovic, or Sprewell.......

In 2003, Tim Duncan's second leading scorer (Tony Parker) averaged 15.5 points per game, and 14.7 points in the playoffs.  Manu Ginobili averaged 7.6 points. I think sometimes people put too much emphasis on Duncan's supporting cast.  He was an individually great player who carried his teams to playoff success.

Overrate. Certainly.

But that still was still a considerably better cast than KG ever had in Minnesota.

34   Mengke Bateer   C   6-11   290   November 20, 1975   1   
12   Bruce Bowen   F   6-7   185   June 14, 1971   6   California State University, Fullerton
23   Devin Brown   G   6-5   220   December 30, 1978   R   University of Texas at San Antonio
10   Speedy Claxton   G   5-11   166   May 8, 1978   1   Hofstra University
21   Tim Duncan   F-C   6-11   248   April 25, 1976   5   Wake Forest University
35   Danny Ferry   F   6-10   230   October 17, 1966   12   Duke University
20   Manu Ginobili   G   6-6   210   July 28, 1977   R   
5   Anthony Goldwire   G   6-1   182   September 6, 1971   4   University of Houston
3   Stephen Jackson   F   6-8   218   April 5, 1978   2   Butler County Community College
25   Steve Kerr   G   6-3   175   September 27, 1965   14   University of Arizona
9   Tony Parker   G   6-2   180   May 17, 1982   1   
50   David Robinson   C   7-1   235   August 6, 1965   13   United States Naval Academy
31   Malik Rose   F   6-7   250   November 23, 1974   6   Drexel University
8   Steve Smith   G   6-7   200   March 31, 1969   11   Michigan State University
42   Kevin Willis   F-C   7-0   220   September 6, 1962   17   Michigan State University

I don't know, I think people often underestimate KG's supporting cast.  He played with Terrell Brandon, Chauncey Billups, Wally S, Sam Cassell, Latrell Spreewell, etc.  It wasn't like KG had Lebron's Cavs team that made the finals supporting cast the whole time.  

I mean the 01-02 team that was swept, had Chauncy and Wally each go for 20+ a game in the post season that year (I know it was 3 games, but still).  Joe Smith was on that team.  Rasho Nesterovic (who seemed respectable starting next to Duncan all those years) was on the team.  

KG's issue was he was a big guy that didn't have much of a post game and likewise wasn't a guy that could take you off the dribble.  In other words, his style of play wasn't conducive to take over games and will his teams to playoff victories.  I also believe he isn't a #1 and in fact a #2.  He is perhaps the greatest #2 in NBA history (right there with Pippen), but his style wasn't one in which he could be the closer, the go to guy, etc.  When he had Cassell and Spreewell (both guys that could be that guy even though much less talented) he won a playoff series.  And he won his title playing next to Pierce who clearly has a #1's mentality and skill set.