The Josh Smith to Celtics merged thread

[greg683x]

please enough with this tragedy..josh smith is overrated, unreliable and seemingly a nutcase of a player with a penchant for making bad decisions BIG TIME!!!enough with glorifying this dude..move on guys..

So a guy that really should have been named an All Star this year is seemingly over rated. He put up great numbers this year 18 points and 10 rebounds a game pretty much, which were the best he has had. I think he would be a fantastic addition to the celtics roster.

......and, add to this the fact that he pretty much carried this Atlanta team on his back by himself (Joe, who?....talk about overrated/overpaid) into the playoffs and a decent seeding (5th but with HCA, really 4th).

Josh Smith would thrive here. The climate and culture of the team would fix his poor shot selection. I can see his "buddy" Rondo really getting on his arse the first time he misses one of those ill-advised  shots.

Love to have Josh Smith, but not sure renouncing KG, if that had to be done to accomplish getting Smith, wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me.

It's amazing how every little possible thing done by Rondo here is so scrutinized but when it comes to players people fall in love with on other teams, they can do no wrong.

You can claim how Smith carried this team on his back that series all you want, but he still had a very good hand in why they lost this series.  Awful shots, that embarrassing reverse dunk attempt that missed on a fast break.  How about the inbounds pass that he made at the end of game 5 that was stolen by Rondo, that couldve cost them the series if Rondo converts that possession.

i would really love to know how the climate and culture would fix his shot selection, especially since we'd have to let KG go to bring him here.  Just because Rondo is his friend, doesnt mean Rondo will tell him what he doesnt want to hear, or that Smith would even listen if he did.

the guy wants out of Atlanta bc hes tired of people complaining about his shot selection.  You think that would change here??  We saw Doc get all over Big Baby numerous times about his shot selection here, it'll be the same way with Smith, except Smith has twice the ego.

And just bc a player is named to an All Star team or almost named, doesnt mean he'd be a player you'd want on a contending team.  Several guys make the all star team every year who take awful shots, loaf on defense, and do things a player on a contending team wouldnt do.

This is not gonna be a guy you want on your team when he starts to reach the end of his 20s and his athleticism starts to leave. 

 

[vjcsmoke]

I think the player we would be renouncing would be Ray Allen, not KG.  KG must be resigned for this team to stand a chance at another playoff run.  PP is already locked in for another few years.  Josh Smith would give us the defensive presence to match up against Lebron James.  He has the physicality, size, and defensive ability.  Sure he's going to have a few bonehead plays in him, but considering that Rondo is our point and handles the ball 90% of the the time, that minimizes the impact of any poor ballhandling by Josh Smith.

The Celtics main achilles heel that was exposed is lack of defensive rebounding, especially when KG is out.  Adding Smith would fix that.  Of course two first round picks and Bass are the minimum begining point of discussion for a Josh Smith trade.  But what we would do is spread it out to a 1st this year, and the Celtics 1st next year.  That way they can still get a player in this year's draft.  And next year if they like someone they can always 'buy' a late 1st rounder for cash considerations.

Think about it - Josh Smith neutralizes Lebron, a healthy Avery Bradley neutralizes Wade, and KG neutralizes Bosh.  I like how we matchup.  If the Celtics want to win the East and go on a major playoff run next season, I think we need to find a way to land Josh Smith a year early. 

Maybe the Hawks can throw in some euro prospect to soften the blow of losing two 1sts. *shrugs*

[lon3lytoaster]

Here it is:

Josh Smith (13.3 MIL owed for his last year)

FOR

Jajuan Johnson (Locked up for the next 4 years)
+
1st Round pick



---------------------------------------------------------------

At first it seems like not even close to enough for a player of Josh Smith's character. But if you look at it close for both sides it could make sense.

Boston has a bunch of cap room with not really too many great options out there in free agency. Trading for Smith would give them a year with him in BOS before you decide whether or not he's a fit to sign long term.

Atlanta has no cap room this season and if Smith isn't dealt they really don't have any way of improving their team, who of course just lost in the first round AGAIN. Atlanta has to be getting sick of Smith's shot selection and feel that Horford is in fact their PF of the future, and the star to pair alongside Joe Johnson.

This move with Boston get's them a nice prospect and (depending on how they draft) a possible 2nd nice 1st round talent.... but the most important thing it does is free them up about 11 million dollars in the books next season. ATL could use some of that money to throw decent money at a few young centers entering Unrestricted Free Agency.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

What do you guys think? Too little for Smith? Do other teams have more to offer?

No it's not even close... Most teams could offer more.  We have a low 1st round and a player who didn't play fo ru at all for an all star?  Come on now

Not necessarily true.. Depending on what Atlanta wants, which could honestly be just to dump him, immediate cap space and getting out of that contract instantly is a pretty decent incentive, IMO.

It all depends on if Atlanta is willing to add equal salary and I don't think they are. Both parties, it would seem are just flat out done with each other.

[Snakehead]

please enough with this tragedy..josh smith is overrated, unreliable and seemingly a nutcase of a player with a penchant for making bad decisions BIG TIME!!!enough with glorifying this dude..move on guys..

So a guy that really should have been named an All Star this year is seemingly over rated. He put up great numbers this year 18 points and 10 rebounds a game pretty much, which were the best he has had. I think he would be a fantastic addition to the celtics roster.

......and, add to this the fact that he pretty much carried this Atlanta team on his back by himself (Joe, who?....talk about overrated/overpaid) into the playoffs and a decent seeding (5th but with HCA, really 4th).

Josh Smith would thrive here. The climate and culture of the team would fix his poor shot selection. I can see his "buddy" Rondo really getting on his arse the first time he misses one of those ill-advised  shots.

Love to have Josh Smith, but not sure renouncing KG, if that had to be done to accomplish getting Smith, wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me.

It's amazing how every little possible thing done by Rondo here is so scrutinized but when it comes to players people fall in love with on other teams, they can do no wrong.

You can claim how Smith carried this team on his back that series all you want, but he still had a very good hand in why they lost this series.  Awful shots, that embarrassing reverse dunk attempt that missed on a fast break.  How about the inbounds pass that he made at the end of game 5 that was stolen by Rondo, that couldve cost them the series if Rondo converts that possession.

i would really love to know how the climate and culture would fix his shot selection, especially since we'd have to let KG go to bring him here.  Just because Rondo is his friend, doesnt mean Rondo will tell him what he doesnt want to hear, or that Smith would even listen if he did.

the guy wants out of Atlanta bc hes tired of people complaining about his shot selection.  You think that would change here??  We saw Doc get all over Big Baby numerous times about his shot selection here, it'll be the same way with Smith, except Smith has twice the ego.

And just bc a player is named to an All Star team or almost named, doesnt mean he'd be a player you'd want on a contending team.  Several guys make the all star team every year who take awful shots, loaf on defense, and do things a player on a contending team wouldnt do.

This is not gonna be a guy you want on your team when he starts to reach the end of his 20s and his athleticism starts to leave. 

 

The thing I have to say to all the Josh Smith haters is that the dude plays on a team with the worst offensive execution in the whole league I'd say.  It is a team that runs nothing but isolations.  In that kind of offense, you will take bad shots.

Not saying he has no hand in it, but in a lot of cases he has to take bad shots because no one else is even doing anything.  I remember people criticizing him in the series in the first round this year (might have been the commentators) when he was taking jump shots when the clock was running out.  It's like what do you want from him?  The criticism of his shot selection is overblown.  The guy does bring a lot to the table.

You put him on our team, he is being mentored by KG (why would he have to go?  You could work it out cap wise), has the top coach in the league working with him, has Rondo throwing him passes and telling him what to do.  That is huge. 

It's not magic or crazy to assume this would make a difference.  We can look at Bass this year and see it's true.

Imagine Smith in the role Bass played this year.  Setting picks and getting those shots with his length that Bass lacks would be a huge weapon.  And then he has the ability to put the ball on the floor and would be an alley-oop target unlike any Rondo has had.  Also the best rebounder we'd have in the big three era.

I personally am a big time advocate for Smith on our team.  Just not sure how it would come about.

[LarBrd33]

Wouldn't that also mean the Celtics had to say goodbye to KG to have cap space?


No, I wouldn't do this trade.

IF they did the trade proposed by OP, they would have 9 million remaining TOTAL to offer to Ray ALlen, Kevin Garnett, Brandon Bass, Jeff Green and Pietrus.

KG alone probably is worth more than that.

[lon3lytoaster]

Wouldn't that also mean the Celtics had to say goodbye to KG to have cap space?


No, I wouldn't do this trade.

IF they did the trade proposed by OP, they would have 9 million remaining TOTAL to offer to Ray ALlen, Kevin Garnett, Brandon Bass, Jeff Green and Pietrus.

KG alone probably is worth more than that.

We'd actually have to resign or renounce KG before we made that trade. Essentially, whatever we do this offseason boils down to that one decision and everything else revolves around that.

[LooseCannon]

Josh Smith scored 18.8 points per game this season.  Is he a guy who would accept a role where he's going to average 14-15 ppg?  I'm not saying that's necessarily where he should be, but is he a guy who would accept that if it was assigned to him by Doc Rivers?  You'd have to convince me the answer is yes before I warm up to the idea of him as a Celtic.

[dlpin]

The thing I have to say to all the Josh Smith haters is that the dude plays on a team with the worst offensive execution in the whole league I'd say.  It is a team that runs nothing but isolations.  In that kind of offense, you will take bad shots.

Not saying he has no hand in it, but in a lot of cases he has to take bad shots because no one else is even doing anything.  I remember people criticizing him in the series in the first round this year (might have been the commentators) when he was taking jump shots when the clock was running out.  It's like what do you want from him?  The criticism of his shot selection is overblown.  The guy does bring a lot to the table.

You put him on our team, he is being mentored by KG (why would he have to go?  You could work it out cap wise), has the top coach in the league working with him, has Rondo throwing him passes and telling him what to do.  That is huge. 

It's not magic or crazy to assume this would make a difference.  We can look at Bass this year and see it's true.

Imagine Smith in the role Bass played this year.  Setting picks and getting those shots with his length that Bass lacks would be a huge weapon.  And then he has the ability to put the ball on the floor and would be an alley-oop target unlike any Rondo has had.  Also the best rebounder we'd have in the big three era.

I personally am a big time advocate for Smith on our team.  Just not sure how it would come about.

You know who are the biggest Josh Smith haters around? Atlanta fans. I live in Atlanta and can attest that for certain. The kid is a headcase.

Now, Josh Smith playing within himself, in a role, like you said, similar to Brandon Bass', would be great. But this is a player who complains that the offense in Atlanta doesn't run through him enough. Who freezes out his point guard constantly because of that. And yet he takes almost 17 shots a game. For the sake of comparison, Pierce led the celtics with 14.6.

And before you talk about Atlanta's offense, his play was just as bad when the Hawks were second in the league in offensive efficiency in 2010.

[Evantime34]

I don't think there is anyway Atlanta would do that deal. We can't do that deal without renouncing KG and Ray. I guess I would do it if KG retires.

I would be less surprised if we made a deal for someone like Lamar Odom in a similar first for move.

[bfrombleacher]

I don't think there is anyway Atlanta would do that deal. We can't do that deal without renouncing KG and Ray. I guess I would do it if KG retires.

I would be less surprised if we made a deal for someone like Lamar Odom in a similar first for move.

Wha..? He's a huge question mark at this point. Not worth a first at all imo.

[action781]

I think Boston would do it in a heartbeat, but I think Atlanta could definitely get more.  JJJ has almost no value, so basically all it would take is a better first round draft pick and cap space.

Wouldn't Denver offer Jordan Hamilton + pick #20?  (Great fit there too)

Wouldn't Philly amnesty Elton Brand and offer pick #15?  (Another good fit)

Would New Orleans offer #10 for Josh Smith + pick #23?

Would Phoenix offer pick #13 for Josh Smith as incentive to keep Nash in town a little longer?

I'm not sure about the last 2, but I think offers like the first 2 trades definitely keep Atlanta from making this deal.

[vjcsmoke]

I don't think there is anyway Atlanta would do that deal. We can't do that deal without renouncing KG and Ray. I guess I would do it if KG retires.

I would be less surprised if we made a deal for someone like Lamar Odom in a similar first for move.

I disagree.  Renouncing Ray Allen alone frees up 10m dollars.  And then we'd throw in Brandon Bass and a couple of 1st round picks (one from 2012 and one from 2013).  Bass' 4m would cover the rest because Josh Smith makes only about 12m per year right now.  Brandon Bass is a cheap alternative to Josh Smith for at least a year.  That has got to be fairly attractive to Atlanta.  I know teams out there can offer better deals, but will they want to, considering all the things we've talked about.  Also Josh Smith has a say in this too and reportedly he would love to come to the Celtics.

KG plus Josh Smith on defense would be amazing to watch and would allow us to match up very well with the Heat who are our main obstacles in the Eastern Conference.  Lebron, meet Josh Smith!

[Evantime34]

I don't think there is anyway Atlanta would do that deal. We can't do that deal without renouncing KG and Ray. I guess I would do it if KG retires.

I would be less surprised if we made a deal for someone like Lamar Odom in a similar first for move.

I disagree.  Renouncing Ray Allen alone frees up 10m dollars.  And then we'd throw in Brandon Bass and a couple of 1st round picks (one from 2012 and one from 2013).  Bass' 4m would cover the rest because Josh Smith makes only about 12m per year right now.  Brandon Bass is a cheap alternative to Josh Smith for at least a year.  That has got to be fairly attractive to Atlanta.  I know teams out there can offer better deals, but will they want to, considering all the things we've talked about.  Also Josh Smith has a say in this too and reportedly he would love to come to the Celtics.

KG plus Josh Smith on defense would be amazing to watch and would allow us to match up very well with the Heat who are our main obstacles in the Eastern Conference.  Lebron, meet Josh Smith!

Except Bass would opt out and you wouldn't be able to deal him.

[dlpin]

I disagree.  Renouncing Ray Allen alone frees up 10m dollars.  And then we'd throw in Brandon Bass and a couple of 1st round picks (one from 2012 and one from 2013).  Bass' 4m would cover the rest because Josh Smith makes only about 12m per year right now.  Brandon Bass is a cheap alternative to Josh Smith for at least a year.  That has got to be fairly attractive to Atlanta.  I know teams out there can offer better deals, but will they want to, considering all the things we've talked about.  Also Josh Smith has a say in this too and reportedly he would love to come to the Celtics.

KG plus Josh Smith on defense would be amazing to watch and would allow us to match up very well with the Heat who are our main obstacles in the Eastern Conference.  Lebron, meet Josh Smith!

Josh is making 13 mill next season. Assuming a similar cap to the current one of 58 million, renouncing Ray Allen by itself wouldn't be enough to fit Josh. First, I doubt Bass would be traded after picking up his option. Second, given the cap holds on the roster spots (8 spots at the minimum if the celtics renounce Allen and deal away Bass) and the one 1st rounder the celtics would be left with, the celtics would need to be able to resign KG for 10 million or less, renounce Green (and everyone else) and then round out the roster with rookie minimum players.

A team with Rondo, Bradley, Pierce, Stiemsma, Smith, 1 late first round and the rest rookie minimum players would be terrible.

[Yogi]

I disagree.  Renouncing Ray Allen alone frees up 10m dollars.  And then we'd throw in Brandon Bass and a couple of 1st round picks (one from 2012 and one from 2013).  Bass' 4m would cover the rest because Josh Smith makes only about 12m per year right now.  Brandon Bass is a cheap alternative to Josh Smith for at least a year.  That has got to be fairly attractive to Atlanta.  I know teams out there can offer better deals, but will they want to, considering all the things we've talked about.  Also Josh Smith has a say in this too and reportedly he would love to come to the Celtics.

KG plus Josh Smith on defense would be amazing to watch and would allow us to match up very well with the Heat who are our main obstacles in the Eastern Conference.  Lebron, meet Josh Smith!

Josh is making 13 mill next season. Assuming a similar cap to the current one of 58 million, renouncing Ray Allen by itself wouldn't be enough to fit Josh. First, I doubt Bass would be traded after picking up his option. Second, given the cap holds on the roster spots (8 spots at the minimum if the celtics renounce Allen and deal away Bass) and the one 1st rounder the celtics would be left with, the celtics would need to be able to resign KG for 10 million or less, renounce Green (and everyone else) and then round out the roster with rookie minimum players.

A team with Rondo, Bradley, Pierce, Stiemsma, Smith, 1 late first round and the rest rookie minimum players would be terrible.

In your scenario wouldn't it be Rondo, Bradley, Pierce, Smith and KG with Stiemsma coming of the bench.  That's a pretty good starting 5 don't you think?