People really don't understand the value of Ray Allen

[LooseCannon]

Someone watch Game 3 vs the Hawks and tell me again how Ray Allen is just a spot-up shooter.

Ray isn't a spot up shooter and never has been. 

I agree with you, but there have been people in this thread who claim otherwise.  I'd like to hear their responses.

[xmuscularghandix]

Someone watch Game 3 vs the Hawks and tell me again how Ray Allen is just a spot-up shooter.

Ray isn't a spot up shooter and never has been. 

I agree with you, but there have been people in this thread who claim otherwise.  I'd like to hear their responses.

Ray runs off screens, who says he's a spot up shooter? He's not Mike Bibby or someone like that who just hangs outside. I think he's primarily an outside shooter at this point of his career but tonight he showed that he can also be effective catching the ball and turning towards the basket for jumpers in the teeth of the defense. That could be much more valuable for the  Celtics in the Playoffs... especially if Avery can get back so Ray can settle back into a 6th Man role where the bench offense can really ride through him.

[Celtics4ever]

Doc doesn't understand Ray's value on those last second shots.   It is all PP iso.  While PP is definitely our best closer and one of the best in the game.   Everyone knows what is coming.

[LooseCannon]

Ray runs off screens, who says he's a spot up shooter?

The idea that Ray Allen is just a spot-up three-point shooter at this point in his career is an incorrect notion that pops up in any extended thread about what his role on the team and his value as a player.  Here are some examples from this thread:

Ray Allen is so good that 50 year old Derek Fisher 6foot nothing can shut him down. He is who he is a spot-up shooter, nothing more nothing less.

At this point in his career, Ray is a spot up shooter, and a jump shooter when curling off of screens.

He cant get his own shot, cant create off the dribble and cant defend.

He isnt even the best 3 point shooter in the league.

Steve Novak is better at this point and I love Ray, but father time is undefeated.

He is who he is a spot-up shooter, nothing more nothing less.

Sadly, I agree with you. Ray is still a great shooter, but it's a little harder for him to get open. He has difficulty creating his own shot, and has trouble passing out of the double team. I'm glad he is now a 6th man, so he can torch the opposing bench. I love Ray and hope he is healthy and plays amazing in the playoffs.

[thestackshow]

With Ray on the court our offense slows to a crawl. That much is true.

[2dark]

With Ray on the court our offense slows to a crawl. That much is true.

Yes, cuz our offense was flying in 1st half before AB got hurt

I saw a guy with high basketball IQ noticing that ATL is essentially playing with 13 guards, and doing most of his damage in the paint on the cuts, which is ever weirder when you know that his job description is essentially to shoot, not to go to the hole in the last few years.

Ray Allen effect furthermore gave loads of open looks from beyond the arc to rest of our guys which is why we hit decent enough percent from 3pt land tonight.

I call it half double (team). Ray runs off screen(s) his man is on his heels but big is stepping up half way too, and Hawks entire D does the same half step to rotate in between (really fine job doing that), which gives our weak side spot shooter enough room to get the ball and shoot uncotested (MP did it good tonight). People that don't understand how basketball works can not see that he is the one getting MP open on those shoots eventhough he wasn't anywhere near the ball.

I have watched Ray losing step after step since his Bucks years, then transforming to more of an outside threat during his prime in Sonics, and then making ENORMOUS sacriffice with his game when he was asked to fit into C's system that he willingly made.
IHMO he is top 10 SG in league still, but more importantly he is perfect SG for these C's who need his spacing and outside touch and in return make him look like a decent defensive SG with rotations. Its a long shot, but I hope he will stay here after this season, specially since it seems PP is linking his retirement to what KG and Ray do in postseason.

Bonus link: Ray not shooting while clocks go down in younger days (appearences by young T-Mac and Doc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzo8RskHTRU

Ray shooting against "6ft  Fisher who can stop him" in Seattle days (shift from his Bucks days noticable, over 70% of off career high coming from outside shots, eventhough he still kept hight FTA ratio) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzw_SUvLq4A

[alajet]

This whole spot up shooter debate is making me sick.
Spot up shooters just warm the bench during the crucial points of a game. They just shoot. Well, technically, a scoring player just shoots as well. But they do not create any kind of possession.
A spot up shooter is someone who is left wide open after double/triple team defense or through penetrations. Or possibly, in transition.
Ray Allen isn't left wide open. Not for any sort of possession. In fact, people assign hound-like defenders to pursue him.

[anthony83]

 +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 Totally I agree, People really don't understand the value of Ray Allen, still, best shooting guard in the league.

 Ray must to retire in Boston and resign,this is a priority, is a delight to see him play, these screens, that shot magic...

[RajonRondo9Dime]

50 year old Derek Fisher shut him down?

Finals record for 3s made in a game say wassup.

Haters are moronic. Bradley is a nice little young player but come on, man.

[LarBrd33]

having a shooter like Ray Allen is absolutely essential when your ball-handler is a liability shooting the ball.  Since Rondo can only hit shots 2 feet from the basket, you need someone like Ray spreading the floor and giving space for Rondo to operate.  Defenders will ALWAYS need to keep up on Ray, because he's such a threat.  Pierce is a dynamic scorer.  KG keeps bigs out of the paint by having his mid-range ability.  Same with Bass.  And then you have Ray causing havoc for defenders.  Without these guys, Rondo would be in a world of trouble on offense.  I really wonder what would happen if you stuck Rondo on a team like the Nets in replace of Deron Williams.  How would he handle being double teamed consistently.  How would he handle having garbage teammates who can't hit shots.  Would be interesting.  We'll probably find out very soon when his safety net of hall-of-fame teammates retire.

Yes... Ray matters.  He has crazy range, keeps defenders honest, spreads the floor, causes havoc for defenses by running around screens.  Rondo is REALLY going to miss Ray when he's gone.  There is no easier assist for Rondo than just standing at the top of the key and waiting for Ray to make himself open for a dagger money shot.  Also doesn't hurt that Ray is one of the three most clutch players I've ever seen in my life (with Larry Bird and Michael Jordan).  We should have gotten him the final shot last night... game probably wouldn't have gone into overtime. 

[nickagneta]

Ray was probably shot up with a ton of cortisone last night which helped immensely. He really surprised me with his lateral movement and stamina. His defense was pretty good, especially in the 4th and OT when you would have expected him to be hurting most and slowing down.

That said, he obviously was effected with his outside shooting and free throw shooting as most of his misses there were short. The leg strength and foot possibly cost him his lift and height he needs to get his shot off the way he's used to shooting it.

The Hawks still collapsed down and inside with lots of help on KG and Pierce even when Ray was in and though his presence did open up some spacing, it wasn't nearly as open as Doc or others have made it seem. Still, there was some space more than when Bradley was in and Rondo should have taken advantage of it and tried to go to the basket instead of settling for so many mid range jumpers.

[cman88]

ya, I dont think anyone can expect Ray allen to be 100% but if he can give us 14ppg off the bench thats exactly what we need.

now, we know Pietrus can give us a couple 3's off the bench. we just need someone else to pitch in offensively

[OmarSekou]

Ray has lots of value, the problem is integrating his skill set into our offense. He's a great offensive player coming off of screens, but those plays take time to set up and can be defended against. We have other great scorers who don't need to run through 3 screens to get a good look, and a guy in Rondo who can get a good look for just about anyone.

Ray's not a great defender, which is the emphasis of our team. Ray's transitioning into more of a role player because of his defense.

It makes sense to do what (I think) we did last game. Let Bradley start and set the tempo. Let Ray lead the second unit and play all of the important minutes down the stretch.

[Yogi]

If people want to have random opinions about Ray fine.  Everyone can and do have opinions.  But the fact is:
Per 36 min, Ray Allen gets more rebounds, assists and points than Bradley.  He has the same number of steals, 0.1 less blocks, less turnovers and fouls.  Bradley shoots 3% better from the field, but Ray is much better from 3 and foul line.  These are not career numbers, but just THIS year.  Bradley is faster and better on ball defender, but Ray's bigger and his defense is also above average.  Ray Allen is a far better player than Bradley, although Bradley has much room to grow.  Always said Bradley will be an All-star even last year, but at this point Ray is the FAR superior player.

[RajonRondo9Dime]

If people want to have random opinions about Ray fine.  Everyone can and do have opinions.  But the fact is:
Per 36 min, Ray Allen gets more rebounds, assists and points than Bradley.  He has the same number of steals, 0.1 less blocks, less turnovers and fouls.  Bradley shoots 3% better from the field, but Ray is much better from 3 and foul line.  These are not career numbers, but just THIS year.  Bradley is faster and better on ball defender, but Ray's bigger and his defense is also above average.  Ray Allen is a far better player than Bradley, although Bradley has much room to grow.  Always said Bradley will be an All-star even last year, but at this point Ray is the FAR superior player.

Yeah but... Well, but.. You see, Bradley blocked Wade and scored 28 points in a game this year.

He's like MJ only better.