People really don't understand the value of Ray Allen

[Senninsage]

People don't see the value in sometimes having two, literally three players effectively triple teaming the guy to keep him from getting open and hitting a three pointer?

You have the guy that is always chasing him around, you have the guy keeping a lookout for Ray possibly beating the guy that's guarding him and tries to get in Ray's way to somehow slow him down enough for the person chasing him to catch up, and then you have the guy that pretty much looks to pick-up Ray if he beats his opponents.

Now, some people might call this basic good defense, but teams do this in a far stricter way when Ray Allen is on the court because of his proven reputation for hitting a lot of big three pointers. And because Ray Allen's three point shooting is so well respected, it opens up a lot of other possibilities for the team on offense. It also drains a lot of the energy that an otherwise solid offensive player might have on the other end of the floor. The respect that teams have for Ray's three point shooting is an advantage for the Celtics.


Why are so many all too willing to toss the guy to the side? Yes, Bradley is hitting threes now, but it seems his best spot is that right corner. Ray can hit it from all over at a very high percentage. I agree with Bradley starting over Ray for early defensive purposes, and for the athleticism and speed it gives us in all sorts of situations, but nobody on this team is more reliable or dependable when it comes to hitting a big three for the team in a crucial situation than Ray Allen. The greatest three point shooter in NBA history deserves more respect than what he's getting from Celtics fans.

Do people forget Ray Allen's roll in that monster blowout championship game over the Lakers? Don't think for a second that Ray being unconscious from three at crucial points in that game wasn't what led to that blowout game 6 victory.

Don't forget Ray's big three against the Knicks in last year's playoff series. Had we lost that game, who knows what happens. Who knows what kind of confidence the Knicks get from that win.

Ray is way too important to this team. We can't win a championship this year if he's not healthy and participating. I mean, I guess anything is possible, but it becomes that much harder to do without Ray. It honestly does, and people really need to keep that in mind.

[alajet]

Just wait till AB is brought back to earth come play-off time and then they will remember Ray.

[Change]

Ray Allen is so good that 50 year old Derek Fisher 6foot nothing can shut him down. He is who he is a spot-up shooter, nothing more nothing less.

[Chris]

You are absolutely right about the value of Ray.  He is still one of the best SGs in the league, and an absolutely deadly weapon.  That is why there will be teams lining up to give him a very strong contract offer this summer, and very likely a starting job.

That doesn't mean he fits into the C's longterm plans however.  Danny is going to have to make some tough decisions this offseason in order to start building towards the future, and I just can't see paying Ray Allen the kind of money he will get elsewhere will fit into those plans.

[MBunge]

I don't undervalue Ray.  He's still a great shooter and does force the other team to adjust to that.

However, the other aspects of him game have clearly fallen off to a much greater degree than we see with either Pierce or KG and that was before these ankle problems.  The last few times we saw Ray, he was showing even greater difficulty getting open and staying in front of his man defensively.

I've also seen the difference in what the Celtic offense looks like with and without Ray.  It's really clear that things have a tendency to stagnate while everybody waits for Ray to run off screens multiple times.

Mike

[Who]

You are absolutely right about the value of Ray.  He is still one of the best SGs in the league, and an absolutely deadly weapon.  That is why there will be teams lining up to give him a very strong contract offer this summer, and very likely a starting job.

That doesn't mean he fits into the C's longterm plans however.  Danny is going to have to make some tough decisions this offseason in order to start building towards the future, and I just can't see paying Ray Allen the kind of money he will get elsewhere will fit into those plans.

Does any contender have enough cap space to sign Ray Allen to a larger than MLE contract?

Edit: These are the teams I found = Dallas, Indiana and Phoenix. Maybe New Jersey.

Also - Houston, Denver and Portland but I don't think those teams would be interested in an older veteran like Ray Allen. Seem to be prioritizing younger players.

[droopdog7]

Ray Allen is so good that 50 year old Derek Fisher 6foot nothing can shut him down. He is who he is a spot-up shooter, nothing more nothing less.

Ray was never just a spot up shooter. 

[banty19]

I think people understand and overrate the value of Ray.

He's still an excellent shooter, both spotup and to a lesser extent, off the dribble. He also seems to bring it in the clutch.

But that's it. At this point, Ray allen brings nothing else to the table. He never attacks the basket, can't rebound, plays poor defense, doesn't create turnovers, etc. I really respect him. He's the epitome of class. But at this point, he shouldn't be starting anymore.

[wdleehi]

Of course we understand how good Ray is now and how great he was.



At this point, the team is working better with Bradley in the starting lineup. 


I can't help but notice that in a close game, it was Ray who was on the floor towards the end of the 4th quarter.   


 

[SHAQATTACK]

yup....I 'd hate to see ol Ray Ray walk out the door , but we really need Bass and Pietrus back and Green too if we can sign him.  I just think Ray will walk to get more money than DA is gonna be able offer.  AB is our future , and I don't see him or Rondo leaving anytime soon (unless the RIvers kid is taken), then a 1000 different trades might happen..   Hate it ...but I thinks dats gonna be the situation.

[Chris]

You are absolutely right about the value of Ray.  He is still one of the best SGs in the league, and an absolutely deadly weapon.  That is why there will be teams lining up to give him a very strong contract offer this summer, and very likely a starting job.

That doesn't mean he fits into the C's longterm plans however.  Danny is going to have to make some tough decisions this offseason in order to start building towards the future, and I just can't see paying Ray Allen the kind of money he will get elsewhere will fit into those plans.

Does any contender have enough cap space to sign Ray Allen to a larger than MLE contract?

Edit: These are the teams I found = Dallas, Indiana and Phoenix. Maybe New Jersey.

Also - Houston, Denver and Portland but I don't think those teams would be interested in an older veteran like Ray Allen. Seem to be prioritizing younger players.

There are also sign and trades.  And I think Danny will gladly do a sign and trade if it works out for the team, and makes Ray (and his agent) happy.

Let's say, for example, Danny like Omer Asik, who has probably priced himself out of Chicago as a backup center, but could be a solid starting center.  There could be a very strong match there in a 2-way sign and trade.  

[thestackshow]

Ray Allen is so good that 50 year old Derek Fisher 6foot nothing can shut him down. He is who he is a spot-up shooter, nothing more nothing less.

Ray was never just a spot up shooter. 

At this point in his career, Ray is a spot up shooter, and a jump shooter when curling off of screens.

He cant get his own shot, cant create off the dribble and cant defend.

He isnt even the best 3 point shooter in the league.

Steve Novak is better at this point and I love Ray, but father time is undefeated.

[vgulab]

Ray Allen greatest shooter ever.

2012 Ray Allen player who can be replaced easily.

Ray's job was to stretch the floor with running in screens and he WAS great at it. Now... he is not so fast, he doesn't get open that often he is slower, still great shooter but doesn't stretch the floor so good.

Some interesting stats from this season:

When Ray starts Celtics are   20-22
When Avery starts Celtics are 18-7

Rondo,Bass,Pierce,Garnett + Allen = 9-5
Rondo,Bass,Pierce,Garnett + Bradley = 10-3

I like Ray but with this stats i'm saying he can be replaced and KG and Pierce can not. From the Big 3 Ray is the least important player. KG is by far our best +/- player +256. That shows how good he is in defense without him we have no chance of even going into second round od playoff. Pierce is our best offensive player and still much better +/- than Ray. Pierce +188 and Ray +97.

I'm not saying trade him. I would be delighted with Ray coming of the bench but as a starter i chose AB. Offers the team much more at age 21. Ray is smart guy and he shouldn't be offended to come of the bench. 6mil/1yr should be his price if someone overpay him let him go. He doesn't worth more money. On the other side KG still worth 10-12 mil based on how important to this team is.

[Yogi]

Ray Allen greatest shooter ever.

2012 Ray Allen player who can be replaced easily.

Ray's job was to stretch the floor with running in screens and he WAS great at it. Now... he is not so fast, he doesn't get open that often he is slower, still great shooter but doesn't stretch the floor so good.

Some interesting stats from this season:

When Ray starts Celtics are   20-22
When Avery starts Celtics are 18-7

Rondo,Bass,Pierce,Garnett + Allen = 9-5
Rondo,Bass,Pierce,Garnett + Bradley = 10-3

I like Ray but with this stats i'm saying he can be replaced and KG and Pierce can not. From the Big 3 Ray is the least important player. KG is by far our best +/- player +256. That shows how good he is in defense without him we have no chance of even going into second round od playoff. Pierce is our best offensive player and still much better +/- than Ray. Pierce +188 and Ray +97.

I'm not saying trade him. I would be delighted with Ray coming of the bench but as a starter i chose AB. Offers the team much more at age 21. Ray is smart guy and he shouldn't be offended to come of the bench. 6mil/1yr should be his price if someone overpay him let him go. He doesn't worth more money. On the other side KG still worth 10-12 mil based on how important to this team is.

Brilliant analysis.  Hawks have a better record this year without Horford than they did last year.  Clearly Horford is a scrub.  They should trade him for a second round pick if they can find someone foolish enough.  Wait... maybe the TEAM improved between those two times... nah it must be Horford and Ray.  What a bunch of scrubs.

[vgulab]

Ray Allen greatest shooter ever.

2012 Ray Allen player who can be replaced easily.

Ray's job was to stretch the floor with running in screens and he WAS great at it. Now... he is not so fast, he doesn't get open that often he is slower, still great shooter but doesn't stretch the floor so good.

Some interesting stats from this season:

When Ray starts Celtics are   20-22
When Avery starts Celtics are 18-7

Rondo,Bass,Pierce,Garnett + Allen = 9-5
Rondo,Bass,Pierce,Garnett + Bradley = 10-3

I like Ray but with this stats i'm saying he can be replaced and KG and Pierce can not. From the Big 3 Ray is the least important player. KG is by far our best +/- player +256. That shows how good he is in defense without him we have no chance of even going into second round od playoff. Pierce is our best offensive player and still much better +/- than Ray. Pierce +188 and Ray +97.

I'm not saying trade him. I would be delighted with Ray coming of the bench but as a starter i chose AB. Offers the team much more at age 21. Ray is smart guy and he shouldn't be offended to come of the bench. 6mil/1yr should be his price if someone overpay him let him go. He doesn't worth more money. On the other side KG still worth 10-12 mil based on how important to this team is.

Brilliant analysis.  Hawks have a better record this year without Horford than they did last year.  Clearly Horford is a scrub.  They should trade him for a second round pick if they can find someone foolish enough.  Wait... maybe the TEAM improved between those two times... nah it must be Horford and Ray.  What a bunch of scrubs.

So you are saying Ray is worth more than 6mil and that we should pay him more? That Ray is more valuable player to us than KG? That he can help the team more as a starter?
 I didn't understand what your point was?