Greg Stiemsma's Potential = Perk or Better?

[Tr1boy]

In his best year, Perk averaged 10 points, 8 rebounds, and 60% shooting while playing elite defense as the starting center on a team that reached the NBA finals.

In his best full month, Stiemsma averaged 3.9 points and 3.9 rebounds on 50.9% shooting, coming off the bench.  Stiemsma is an excellent shot-blocker, but is far from an elite defender.

Right now, Stiemsma has a long way to go before he reaches Perk's level.  It's exciting to see the level GS is playing at, because he basically came out of nowhere.  However, he just hasn't come close to the impact Perk had.

Why, in a thread about Stiesma's potential compared to Perkins' ability, should we take the stats from Perkins' penultimate year as a professional and compare it to Stiesma's first year in the NBA and not adjust it for minutes played, and say that Stiesma has "a long way to go before he reaches Perk's level?"

Here's how I look at it.  Perkins should be in his NBA prime right now.  He is 27 years old with some 8-9 years of experience, and has played on NBA championship caliber teams.  

Right now, Perkins is statistically one of the worst centers in the league, and probably is one of the worst contracts in the league.

Right now, Stiesma is putting up superior numbers, playing in his rookie season, on a team where he was basically thrown into the fire because of injury.

Right now, Stiesma is better than Perkins. Plain and simple.

Wow.  We're in a true parallel universe.  

mctyson, you need only look at the difference in every OK City defensive category after acquiring Perk as opposed to before.

I would take a contract as "worst" as Perk's on my team anytime....Or a center as statistically bad as Perk's..If his presence...(and overt nastiness)... transforms my team into one of the NBA's best defensive teams.

We should be so fortunate.

I liked Stiemsma's demeanor last night.  His confidence is growing steadily.  But better than Perk?  Really?

could be. If he can play consistently and put it all together.

Perk better than Stiemsma
Offensive rebounding
Hard to beat one on one
Post game

Stiesma better than Perk
Blocking
Shooting
Open court basketball
Passing

and again, imo stiemsma is more than adequate defensive rebounder

This is my own little comparison , and stiesma scores more points than Perk. Stiemsma has a long way to go, to accomplish what perk has done, but if we are talking about overall package and potential, Stiemsma has the slight edge

[snively]

Let me put it this way, Jermaine O'Neal had a better rebound rate this year than Stiemsma.

He's not a rebounder, people keep pumping up his rebounding and its just not there. I've seen some of the same people in game threads who'd groan that O'Neal was useless and never got rebounds, freak out when "Steamer" isn't in the game because of "all the rebounds he gets".

I'd argue that's more a problem of people undervaluing JO rather than people overvaluing Stiemsma.  He's an upgrade in DRB% over some of the bench bigs in the previous two seasons, such as Troy Murphy, Nenad Krstic, Semih Erden, and Glen Davis.  Stiemsma's not as good at rebounding as Shelden Williams, though.

Stiemsma does give a nice semblance of action that impresses people who overvalue hustle.

I think its both.

The upgrade Greg provides over Jermaine is in his better ability to score (both with his jump shot, finishing at the rim, and free throws) and his shot blocking. Plus overall mobility of course.

Agreed.

The downgrade is in post defense, where Jermaine was good to very good and Stiemsma is bad (though he does seem to be improving).

How about Jim McIlvaine as a comparison for Stiemsma? Another Wisconsin native who blocked a ton of shots, fouled a lot and, IIRC, had a decent J.

[Celtics18]

I think it's a good comparison.  Their games are different in a lot of ways, but they also have a lot in common.  Primarily, they are both tough, blue collar, defensive minded centers whose contributions to the game are never really adequately reflected in the stats.  Those are the kinds of guys that are always going to be liked and respected by their teammates.  They know their roles and they go out and try to perform that role every night. 

[Neurotic Guy]

I realize the question is potential, but it's hard to get away from present day comparison.  And in truth, the underlying interest here (the 'elephant in the room') remains how badly  DA erred in trading Perk.  And Stiemsma has some relevance in the conversation even though he was not part of the trade. If DA is able to effectively replace a traded part, a bad trade becomes more palatable.

I would trade Stiemer for Perk in a minute.  But, if JG were healthy, I do not think I'd trade GS/JG for Perk.  Also, thinking big picture, DA has replaced Perk, BBD and JG with Bass, Stiemer, and Pietrus. And he still has JG possibly returning and the Clipper pick.  All in all, and in large part due to Greg's emergence, I am not missing Perk very much right now.

 

[chambers]

I realize the question is potential, but it's hard to get away from present day comparison.  And in truth, the underlying interest here (the 'elephant in the room') remains how badly  DA erred in trading Perk.  And Stiemsma has some relevance in the conversation even though he was not part of the trade. If DA is able to effectively replace a traded part, a bad trade becomes more palatable.

I would trade Stiemer for Perk in a minute.  But, if JG were healthy, I do not think I'd trade GS/JG for Perk.  Also, thinking big picture, DA has replaced Perk, BBD and JG with Bass, Stiemer, and Pietrus. And he still has JG possibly returning and the Clipper pick.  All in all, and in large part due to Greg's emergence, I am not missing Perk very much right now.

 

[edited]
The Perk trade was the correct move at the time.
I wouldn't want to be paying him 9 million going into next year  or the next 4 years. Forget it. He's a back up center at best. he can only complement good players. Enough ranting. There is no elephant in the room, and if there is, it certainly isn't Perkins being traded as a mistake.
So annoying hearing this repeated. One legged Perkins for Jeff Green, Krstic and a first round pick in a stacked draft.
Easy decision.

Re OP's question, yes he has the potential. He's improved light years in 6 months time. He needs to add bulk to guard starting Centers like Perk can, but it's possible.
Different skill sets, but he could ultimately be a better player and contributor than Perkins- probably not defensively in a 1v1 aspect, but he can get higher to the hoop and could become a better rebounder. He's only just starting to box out effectively and it's doing us wonders.
Yes, he definitely has the potential to be better.

Warning: Please, at all times maintain a civil tone.

[bfrombleacher]

Perk better than Stiemsma
Offensive rebounding
Hard to beat one on one
Post game

Stiesma better than Perk
Blocking
Shooting
Open court basketball
Passing

and again, imo stiemsma is more than adequate defensive rebounder

This is my own little comparison , and stiesma scores more points than Perk. Stiemsma has a long way to go, to accomplish what perk has done, but if we are talking about overall package and potential, Stiemsma has the slight edge

Good breakdown

[myteamisbetterthanyours]

Stiemsma is playing on bad foot (still averaging 2 blocks a game since the all-star break).. He can't practice.. He wears a walking boot.. and yet he still executes his role come game time.

I'd really love to see what a healthier Steamer can do.  3 blocks a game avg maybe? Higher rebounding percentage? More points and easy baskets inside?  It's really hard to play basketball when your feet hurt.. And he's still doing it pretty well.

As far as comparing him to Perk.. Perk is still the best 1 on 1 post defender in the NBA. Him and Steamer are different players.  Steamer is more of a weak side help defender who can clean up our guards miscues with his impeccable shot blocking techniques.  From my recollection, everytime someone blew past a guard, Perk would just foul the person cuz he doesnt really have the lift to block their shot.  Stiemsma is meeting people at the rim and blocking their shots on a bad foot..

Personally, I'd prefer the Steamer over Perk because hes more mobile, blocks more shots and isn't the offensive liability that Perkins is.  And I honestly think our defense is better now than it was when Perk was here.  So much so that I don't think Perkins' 1 on 1 post defense is really a need for us.  

I love Perk, but I really like The Steamer right now.  Can't wait to see what he's capable of with a full season under his belt, an actual training camp with the team, and a better foot lol.

[Celtics4ever]

. Perk is still the best 1 on 1 post defender in the NBA

Really, I doubt it on one knee.  He was a good defender but he is not the same guy he once was folks.

[Roy H.]

From my recollection, everytime someone blew past a guard, Perk would just foul the person cuz he doesnt really have the lift to block their shot.

Your recollection is faulty.  Perk finished in the top-10 in blocks twice, and in the top-10 in block percentage four times.  He was a pretty good shot blocker.

I'm surprised so many people have forgotten Perk's game already.

[Fafnir]

From my recollection, everytime someone blew past a guard, Perk would just foul the person cuz he doesnt really have the lift to block their shot.

I'm surprised so many people have forgotten Perk's game already.

Yeah its strange.

People also forget how good of a rebounder he turned himself into every year before the current season. I'm still bummed by his knee issues, before his mobility and lift went down a notch he was looking like he'd become more like a Tyson Chandler type on offense (better finisher in P&R and around the rim, plus a better help defender)

Then in 09-10 his knee tendonitis and other issues really started hampering him.

[myteamisbetterthanyours]

From my recollection, everytime someone blew past a guard, Perk would just foul the person cuz he doesnt really have the lift to block their shot.

I'm surprised so many people have forgotten Perk's game already.

Yeah its strange.

People also forget how good of a rebounder he turned himself into every year before the current season. I'm still bummed by his knee issues, before his mobility and lift went down a notch he was looking like he'd become more like a Tyson Chandler type on offense (better finisher in P&R and around the rim, plus a better help defender)

Then in 09-10 his knee tendonitis and other issues really started hampering him.

You thought Kendrick Perkins would be a Tyson Chandler type of offensive player? First of all, what is that exactly? Tyson scores off put backs and alley oops, I don't know if I'd call that offense; Its more hustle and athleticism than anything. Perk is not a good offensive rebounder. Perk could never get off the ground, even before his knee issues.. Tyson Chandler jumps through the roof.

Stiemsma blocks shots at an elite rate.  His blocks per 48 (5.32) are second only to Serge Ibaka (6.26) and ahead of McGee (4.39).  And hes doing it on a bad foot.  A healthy Kendrick Perkins couldn't do that, ever.

Lol @ the mobility and lift Kendrick Perkins lost.. Thats a funny line. He was never mobile, and never had lift.

He's just a big body.  Strong.  With long arms.  Nothing more than that.  Stiemsma is a better player, sorry guys.

[myteamisbetterthanyours]

. Perk is still the best 1 on 1 post defender in the NBA

Really, I doubt it on one knee.  He was a good defender but he is not the same guy he once was folks.

Yea you right.  Another reason why Stiemsma is better.

[Neurotic Guy]

I realize the question is potential, but it's hard to get away from present day comparison.  And in truth, the underlying interest here (the 'elephant in the room') remains how badly  DA erred in trading Perk.  And Stiemsma has some relevance in the conversation even though he was not part of the trade. If DA is able to effectively replace a traded part, a bad trade becomes more palatable.

I would trade Stiemer for Perk in a minute.  But, if JG were healthy, I do not think I'd trade GS/JG for Perk.  Also, thinking big picture, DA has replaced Perk, BBD and JG with Bass, Stiemer, and Pietrus. And he still has JG possibly returning and the Clipper pick.  All in all, and in large part due to Greg's emergence, I am not missing Perk very much right now.

 

Please don't go down that pathetic road again.
The Perk trade was the correct move at the time.
I wouldn't want to be paying him 9 million going into next year  or the next 4 years. Forget it. He's a back up center at best. he can only complement good players. Enough ranting. There is no elephant in the room, and if there is, it certainly isn't Perkins being traded as a mistake.
So annoying hearing this repeated. One legged Perkins for Jeff Green, Krstic and a first round pick in a stacked draft.
Easy decision.

Re OP's question, yes he has the potential. He's improved light years in 6 months time. He needs to add bulk to guard starting Centers like Perk can, but it's possible.
Different skill sets, but he could ultimately be a better player and contributor than Perkins- probably not defensively in a 1v1 aspect, but he can get higher to the hoop and could become a better rebounder. He's only just starting to box out effectively and it's doing us wonders.
Yes, he definitely has the potential to be better.

I think you misundertood (or more likely I poorly communicated) my point.  I was not trying to say that DA erred badly in the trade.  I was trying to suggest that the reason a thread like this exists is that we are still trying to measure whether, or how much, DA erred.  I realize it looks like I am suggesting DA erred badly, but my intent was more to your point -- that we can't let it go and are constantly trying to determine the quality of the trade.

[clover]

Perk better than Stiemsma
Offensive rebounding
Hard to beat one on one
Post game

Stiesma better than Perk
Blocking
Shooting
Open court basketball
Passing

and again, imo stiemsma is more than adequate defensive rebounder

This is my own little comparison , and stiesma scores more points than Perk. Stiemsma has a long way to go, to accomplish what perk has done, but if we are talking about overall package and potential, Stiemsma has the slight edge

Good breakdown

Comparing just this year, Stiemsma has now pulled ahead of Perk on offensive AND defensive rebounding rate.

But some other areas where Stiemer has come out stronger: 

- his FT% at .722 is higher than Perk's had in any year.  This matters more on a team where Rondo is the starting PG.

- his TO's are much lower than Perk's this year.  (Perk ranks #55 out of 57 qualifying centers!)

Perk is strong in assist ratio, ranking #9 out of 57 qualifying centers, but Stiemer isn't far behind at #12.

[Fafnir]

Being a good pick setter, being a threat in the pick and roll, and finishing offensive boards at a high clip (perkins was shooting 60%+ for that stretch, higher at the rim) is offense!

Just because a big man isn't a shooter doesn't mean he can't have a positive effect offensively. Especially since Perkins had an underated post game at that time. He turned it over a lot in the post but his points per shot ranking was actually pretty high.

But all of that decayed with his loss of mobility and lift, which were there in 08-09 and early 09-10 to a much greater extent than what you see know. But I guess short memories are what they are, we're all prisoners of the moment.