2012 'Pick Two' Draft Board

[Who]

New Look Grizzlies:

C - Marc Gasol / Nick Collison
PF - David West / Nick Collison
SF - Rudy Gay
SG - Michael Redd
PG - Jason Kidd / CJ Watson

Two high level starters in Marc Gasol and Rudy Gay. Two midlevel starters in Jason Kidd and David West. One a bit above average, one a bit below. One very weak starter (Redd). One high quality backup PF/C (Collison). One solid backup PG (CJ Watson).

A really good team so far.

[indeedproceed]

Howard led those Magic teams to 4 straight 50+ win seasons with a way worse supporting cast.

Eh, but Nash has done pretty darn well for himself when he had a legit #2 in Amar'e, and Wade is better than Amar'e.

I can accept that.  

[theswitch]

Orlando - This team has an identity crisis. They don't really have a starting center or SF. Instead they will plug holes with All-Star caliber players(Amare and JJ) playing out of position and hope it doesn't show. Long term it will.

I think you're underrating the Magic, here. I'll give you that the Cavs and Magic are a potential toss-up and you're heavily biased on that one, so I'll let it go but we are better than the Bulls. Outside of Rose, there's nobody that scares you on that team.

I also don't think I have players playing out of position or have an identity crisis. I have length and defensive talent in the backcourt with Holiday, Brewer and Johnson. JJ has played most of his career as a SG but at 6'7 240, he's going to be a SF for the rest of his career sooner rather than later. I don't think he'll have too much trouble adjusting, and the 6'7 227 defensive stopper Brewer can handle almost any 3 if there's a guy Johnson is having trouble with.

At the bigs, Kurt Thomas is going to give you 15-20 minutes a game of limiting opposing centers to a 13 PER, solid rebounding and grading out well in Synergy as the 19th best post-up defense man in the game. Vucevic can also give you 20 minutes of the same with more size, and both can space the floor with a crafty jumper.

With Thomas and Vucevic taking up ~31 minutes, Anderson with 31 and Amar'e with 34, that leaves 2/3 the game with a real center on the court and 1/3 of the game with the Anderson-Amar'e small-ball combo, which isn't even that small. Amar'e is 6'11 260 and guards centers actually better than power forwards, statistically, and that's a defensive nightmare to guard. The Celtics and Heat both went very far, and the former won, giving big minutes to small-ball lineups. I'm just looking to close out halfs with that lineup, like the Celts did with Posey.

Consider that the Magic win 113-101 per 48 with Anderson on the floor and lose 92-104 with him off it, and the numbers are much closer for Dwight, and you can see that his presence is invaluable even when his "center" is Big Baby. If the Magic can play with Baby and Anderson and succeed as their frontcourt, then by golly we can succeed with Anderson in Amar'e.

This team has offensive firepower all around with Holiday, Mayo, Johnson, Anderson, Amar'e (good luck guarding that lineup) but still great defense with Jrue, Brewer, Johnson, Thomas. What you're calling an identity crisis is what I call balance, consistency and flexibility.

[indeedproceed]

I wish the Magic would parlay Ronnie Brewer/OJ Mayo into a legitimate 3 option and have a got at it with Johnson playing primarily at the 2.

Other than that, I love Amar'e/Andersen as a combo out there with Holiday and Johnson running the show. Thomas/Vucevic together should more than make up for the minutes. ~15 for Thomas, ~15 for Vucevic and ~20 for Amar'e at center, ~29-30 for Andersen at the 4.

[KCattheStripe]

Howard led those Magic teams to 4 straight 50+ win seasons with a way worse supporting cast.

Eh, but Nash has done pretty darn well for himself when he had a legit #2 in Amar'e, and Wade is better than Amar'e.

I can accept that.  

FWIW, I think the regular season record would be close.

[indeedproceed]

Howard led those Magic teams to 4 straight 50+ win seasons with a way worse supporting cast.

Eh, but Nash has done pretty darn well for himself when he had a legit #2 in Amar'e, and Wade is better than Amar'e.

I can accept that. 

FWIW, I think the regular season record would be close.

Me too. I'm thinking two ~60 win teams in a 82 game season.

[indeedproceed]

Trade:

Knicks trade: 7(16), 8(19), 9(20)

Magic trade: 6(13), 10(19), 11(19)

[StartOrien]

so today is the day we drop the humility and start taking shots? Fine, I have the best defense in the league.

[indeedproceed]

so today is the day we drop the humility and start taking shots? Fine, I have the best defense in the league.

hahah...KAPOW!

[KCattheStripe]

so today is the day we drop the humility and start taking shots? Fine, I have the best defense in the league.

Yo mamma.

[nickagneta]

Orlando - This team has an identity crisis. They don't really have a starting center or SF. Instead they will plug holes with All-Star caliber players(Amare and JJ) playing out of position and hope it doesn't show. Long term it will.

I think you're underrating the Magic, here. I'll give you that the Cavs and Magic are a potential toss-up and you're heavily biased on that one, so I'll let it go but we are better than the Bulls. Outside of Rose, there's nobody that scares you on that team.

I also don't think I have players playing out of position or have an identity crisis. I have length and defensive talent in the backcourt with Holiday, Brewer and Johnson. JJ has played most of his career as a SG but at 6'7 240, he's going to be a SF for the rest of his career sooner rather than later. I don't think he'll have too much trouble adjusting, and the 6'7 227 defensive stopper Brewer can handle almost any 3 if there's a guy Johnson is having trouble with.

At the bigs, Kurt Thomas is going to give you 15-20 minutes a game of limiting opposing centers to a 13 PER, solid rebounding and grading out well in Synergy as the 19th best post-up defense man in the game. Vucevic can also give you 20 minutes of the same with more size, and both can space the floor with a crafty jumper.

With Thomas and Vucevic taking up ~31 minutes, Anderson with 31 and Amar'e with 34, that leaves 2/3 the game with a real center on the court and 1/3 of the game with the Anderson-Amar'e small-ball combo, which isn't even that small. Amar'e is 6'11 260 and guards centers actually better than power forwards, statistically, and that's a defensive nightmare to guard. The Celtics and Heat both went very far, and the former won, giving big minutes to small-ball lineups. I'm just looking to close out halfs with that lineup, like the Celts did with Posey.

Consider that the Magic win 113-101 per 48 with Anderson on the floor and lose 92-104 with him off it, and the numbers are much closer for Dwight, and you can see that his presence is invaluable even when his "center" is Big Baby. If the Magic can play with Baby and Anderson and succeed as their frontcourt, then by golly we can succeed with Anderson in Amar'e.

This team has offensive firepower all around with Holiday, Mayo, Johnson, Anderson, Amar'e (good luck guarding that lineup) but still great defense with Jrue, Brewer, Johnson, Thomas. What you're calling an identity crisis is what I call balance, consistency and flexibility.

I see your team this way.

You have a starting quality PG but he has taken a slight step back this year and his drops in assists per minute is disturbing.

You have one of the best offensive big men in the game that you really need to start at center and have Ryan Anderson starting at PF. Why? Because by far they are your best two frontcourt players. Problem is, neither is very interested or good at playing defense. this will be a problem when they are on the court late in games.

Thomas and Vucevic are role playing bigs who play best against other teams bench players. Rolling them out there during important parts of game, like the end or the start, is a big mistake.

Johnson is a SG and best playing there. He doesn't play physically enough to contain the top 10-12 SFs in the league and has never been able to be the leader your team desperately needs him to be.

You have a very good team that will eat up the poor teams of the league but will struggle against the top 7-8 teams in the league. That's the reason I put it where I did.

One thing that confounds me about this type of draft is the way people draft players who play nearly there entire careers at a position and just move them to another and claim they will be just as effective in that position. There's a reason they play the position they do and there is a reason the have success at that position. Expecting the same results while having to play offense and defense against an entirely different group of players with different skill sets is just not logical to me.

Hence, why I think your team does have an identity crisis. But it's just one man's opinion.

[indeedproceed]

Alright, I'm gonna start doin some surgery on the draft board to update it for Monday.

If you made a trade, and it ain't in the trade entry (3rd post in this thread), speak now.

[Merovech]

I know the owner of another team put out what they thought were the playoff teams in each conference, so here's another:

Eastern Conference

Miami - They have the superduperstar that can create his own offense and hit free throws

New York - They have the superduperstar that can't create his own offense or hit his free throws

Cleveland - the best collection of young talent in the league bar none is just a year or two away awaiting the maturation of their superduperstar

Chicago - There's a big drop off after the top three teams but this team has a superduperstar and interesting bigs. A lot depends on if Lamar decides he is a basketball player or a reality television star. The wings are a big problem

Orlando - This team has an identity crisis. They don't really have a starting center or SF. Instead they will plug holes with All-Star caliber players(Amare and JJ) playing out of position and hope it doesn't show. Long term it will.

Atlanta - one of the best defensive teams in the league but possibly the worst half court offense in the league

Indiana - their lack of experienced quality at the PF position is killing this team. I really like the backcourt and wings but think Jennings is not the best distributor and the team lacks passing in the other areas.

Boston - A lot needs to go right for this team to be successful in the playoffs but if they get it together they could be dangerous.



Western Conference

San Antonio - the most complete and kept in tact team in the conference adds Chris Bosh...nuff said

Oklahoma City - very close to beating out San Antonio as the complimentary talent around Durant is great except for the glaring hole at the center position

Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe and Pau get them here all by themselves, which unfortunately, they will have to because the surrounding group is lacking.

Phoenix - Lebron and good but not great complimentary parts might not have the best regular season record but will be the most dangerous playoff team in the conference

Los Angeles Clippers - Paul and Griffin get them this far but I don't understand the super deep depth at PF without a SF being on the team yet.

Portland - this team is almost an exact duplicate of the real Portland team and for that reason lands here below the difference making superstar teams in the west
 
Dallas - very old and a lot of players having down years but this is a proven playoff team, just maybe a little too long in the tooth

Denver - this team will struggle until Horford gets back but when he does they become a different team, one that might be much better than this 8th seeding

You really don't think a team with Westbrook and only one player under a 16.42 player efficency rating and a .117 win shares/per 48 minutes (Dorell Wright's PER is 15.67 and WS/48 is .115, both still better than average), with two picks in the next round is playoff-worthy?

[Merovech]

Alright, I'm gonna start doin some surgery on the draft board to update it for Monday.

If you made a trade, and it ain't in the trade entry (3rd post in this thread), speak now.

The trade I made with you (Millsap + 3.12 for Splitter + Gallo) isn't listed.

[indeedproceed]

I agree with Nick in a lot of ways, but I think the concerns around Holiday's playmaking aren't as bad as it may seem. He plays with two good ball handlers in Iggy and Turner, and that cuts his assists total down.

But Johnson will have the same (ultimately positive) effect.

I think with a average starting 3 who can D-up, itd create the balance he's looking for.