2012 'Pick Two' Draft Board

[indeedproceed]

And Dwight Howard's help defense is what makes him the best defender in the NBA, but I'd again point to his surrounding talent. He's gotta be an elite help defender, because he's not getting much help from the rest of his pathetic roster. Ryan Andersen is the only guy really bringing it on Orlando, but that's mostly on offense. He's not that great a defender either.

[Roy H.]

I agree that it's a flawed stat to look at specifically for Bradley (and I'm sure many other players), but a guy like Lowry has a pretty big sample size against all types of PGs.

Right, so every night he's bringing a bunch of bad to average defenders against NBA caliber, and he's playing 35 minutes a contest.

When he's out there, the Rockets are allowing 101.5 points per 100 possessions. That's middle of the pack. When he's out, they're allowing 109 points per 100. That's second to last in the league.

Its not fair to say he alone is responsible for taking a league worst defensive team to middle-of-the-pack, but that number to me is a lot more telling, especially when you consider that when Lowry rests, its usually when the other starter is resting as well.

Basic +/- stats mean more than you than individual observation that looks specifically at when a guy is getting beat, what percentage his opponent is shooting, etc.?  I'm not sure that's fair.

For instance, when Rondo is on the court, the Celtics allow 101.8 points per 100 possessions.  That's worse than the Lowry Rockets.  However, when Rondo is off the court, the Celtics allow an otherwordly 94.6 points per 100 possessions.  That's a difference of -7.2. 

If we extrapolate that in the same way you do with Lowry's on-court/off-court numbers, what does that tell us?  Certainly it wouldn't be fair to suggest that Rondo is a very poor defender, correct?

[KCattheStripe]

And Dwight Howard's help defense is what makes him the best defender in the NBA, but I'd again point to his surrounding talent. He's gotta be an elite help defender, because he's not getting much help from the rest of his pathetic roster. Ryan Andersen is the only guy really bringing it on Orlando, but that's mostly on offense. He's not that great a defender either.

I can agree with this. Although he's not great at Pick and Rolls. Which makes Nash and Gortat excited.

[indeedproceed]

I agree that it's a flawed stat to look at specifically for Bradley (and I'm sure many other players), but a guy like Lowry has a pretty big sample size against all types of PGs.

Right, so every night he's bringing a bunch of bad to average defenders against NBA caliber, and he's playing 35 minutes a contest.

When he's out there, the Rockets are allowing 101.5 points per 100 possessions. That's middle of the pack. When he's out, they're allowing 109 points per 100. That's second to last in the league.

Its not fair to say he alone is responsible for taking a league worst defensive team to middle-of-the-pack, but that number to me is a lot more telling, especially when you consider that when Lowry rests, its usually when the other starter is resting as well.

Basic +/- stats mean more than you than individual observation that looks specifically at when a guy is getting beat, what percentage his opponent is shooting, etc.?  I'm not sure that's fair.

For instance, when Rondo is on the court, the Celtics allow 101.8 points per 100 possessions.  That's worse than the Lowry Rockets.  However, when Rondo is off the court, the Celtics allow an otherwordly 94.6 points per 100 possessions.  That's a difference of -7.2. 

If we extrapolate that in the same way you do with Lowry's on-court/off-court numbers, what does that tell us?  Certainly it wouldn't be fair to suggest that Rondo is a very poor defender, correct?

No, and also a fair point. Mark Twain said it best; "Lies, Roy Hobbs' debate points, and statistics."

For the benefit of everyone else out there (since I imagine you know how I'm going to approach this), I'd say Rondo's on/off numbers are also a bit of an outlier.

He (unlike Lowry), plays for a (historically) very good defensive team, with a great defensive system. He's also got a pretty good defender in Bradley behind him. When he's out, usually a lot of the other starters from the other team are out as well.

Derrick Rose has a very similar situation, and similar numbers.

[slamtheking]

2012 Draft 2 Chicago Bulls:
PG: Derrick Rose
SG: Evan Turner
SF: Omri Casspi
PF: Jason Thompson
C: Joakim Noah
Bench: JJ Hickson,  Lamar Odom

Why are you bringing Lamar Odom off the bench instead of starting him?

I was initially going to start him over Casspi but considering how the pickings are getting slimmer in the draft, I thought I'd start Casspi to really get a running starting unit and bring Odom off the bench to provide leadership to the second unit. 

Not knowing who I'll have as a point guard off the bench, I think Odom could work as a point forward.  The lineup isn't set in stone.  If I can get a couple of more good players for the bench, swapping Odom for Casspi in the lineup may work out better.

Thanks for the feedback.  TP for the response.

[GreenFaith1819]

And Dwight Howard's help defense is what makes him the best defender in the NBA, but I'd again point to his surrounding talent. He's gotta be an elite help defender, because he's not getting much help from the rest of his pathetic roster. Ryan Andersen is the only guy really bringing it on Orlando, but that's mostly on offense. He's not that great a defender either.

I can agree with this. Although he's not great at Pick and Rolls. Which makes Nash and Gortat excited.

Kidd and Marc's excited about this, too.

Especially Marc.

He's perhaps the best passing Big in the game, too?

He's licking his chops.

[slamtheking]

ok, time to get a quick eval

2012 Draft 2 Chicago Bulls:
PG: Derrick Rose
SG: Evan Turner
SF: Omri Casspi
PF: Jason Thompson
C: Joakim Noah
Bench: JJ Hickson,  Lamar Odom

I need some more back court depth but my starting lineup can run all day and play decent D.  respectable forwards off the bench so far.  IMHO

What's your 2 cents?

Having Rose in your team makes it a legit playoff team and a contender. Size in the front court too so rebounds will be plenty.

a TP for your 2 cents - much appreciated

[indeedproceed]

And Dwight Howard's help defense is what makes him the best defender in the NBA, but I'd again point to his surrounding talent. He's gotta be an elite help defender, because he's not getting much help from the rest of his pathetic roster. Ryan Andersen is the only guy really bringing it on Orlando, but that's mostly on offense. He's not that great a defender either.

I can agree with this. Although he's not great at Pick and Rolls. Which makes Nash and Gortat excited.

Did I miss a 'dwight howard doesn't defend P&R's well' expose from Zack Lowe or something? I've watched a lot of Magic basketball, and I've never got the impression that Howard's got a glaring hole there, but its been mentioned like 8 times now.

[indeedproceed]

ok, time to get a quick eval

2012 Draft 2 Chicago Bulls:
PG: Derrick Rose
SG: Evan Turner
SF: Omri Casspi
PF: Jason Thompson
C: Joakim Noah
Bench: JJ Hickson,  Lamar Odom

I need some more back court depth but my starting lineup can run all day and play decent D.  respectable forwards off the bench so far.  IMHO

What's your 2 cents?

Good team going forward, young, and Noah is a very good help defender.

I think Jason Thompson is a useful player, but I don't think he's a good defender. He fills a stat line, but he's like the West's version of Kris Humpries (to me), but I've seen about 40 minutes total of Kings basketball this season.

Used to be a big Casspi fan, but I wonder what his deal is now.

Turner could be a big difference maker since he's out of Iggy's shadow, and he can be a very good facilitator.

Hickson and Odom I'm not really a fan of. Chicago looks like a playoff squad though, as long as Noah/Rose are healthy.

[KCattheStripe]

The Heat

PG: Steve Nash
SG: Dwayne Wade
SF: Danny Granger
PF: Derrick Favors/ Udonis Haslem
C: Marcin Gortat/ Timofey Mozgov.


Boom. Shaka.Laka.

[indeedproceed]

The Heat

PG: Steve Nash
SG: Dwayne Wade
SF: Danny Granger
PF: Derrick Favors/ Udonis Haslem
C: Marcin Gortat/ Timofey Mozgov.


Boom. Shaka.Laka.

Fair point. Very good team. I'm sick of complementing you for assembling the second best squad in the east.

So since I'm sick of complements, Granger has started to play a little better since his awful start, but he's still hovering around 40% from the field. Gortat and Nash are both good this year, but its not like they're translating that to wins.

So if Wade misses significant time (like he has already), how do you see your guys fairing?

[KCattheStripe]

The Heat

PG: Steve Nash
SG: Dwayne Wade
SF: Danny Granger
PF: Derrick Favors/ Udonis Haslem
C: Marcin Gortat/ Timofey Mozgov.


Boom. Shaka.Laka.

So if Wade misses significant time (like he has already), how do you see your guys fairing?

I think to keep us the best team in the East, my next two picks are important. I have to find some back up wings  that in the event of Wade missing some time, allows Nash the ability to thrive. So expect us to find some shootahs and run and gun without Wade.

[GreenFaith1819]

New Look Grizzlies:

C - Marc Gasol / Nick Collison
PF - David West / Nick Collison
SF - Rudy Gay
SG - Michael Redd
PG - Jason Kidd / CJ Watson

Thoughts?

[Roy H.]

And Dwight Howard's help defense is what makes him the best defender in the NBA, but I'd again point to his surrounding talent. He's gotta be an elite help defender, because he's not getting much help from the rest of his pathetic roster. Ryan Andersen is the only guy really bringing it on Orlando, but that's mostly on offense. He's not that great a defender either.

I can agree with this. Although he's not great at Pick and Rolls. Which makes Nash and Gortat excited.

Did I miss a 'dwight howard doesn't defend P&R's well' expose from Zack Lowe or something? I've watched a lot of Magic basketball, and I've never got the impression that Howard's got a glaring hole there, but its been mentioned like 8 times now.

You'll be happy to know that Synergy ranks Howard 7th best in terms of points allowed per possession on pick-and-rolls.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

What about Philly?

Andre Miller
Kevin Martin
Danilo Gallinari
Ekpe Udoh
Spencer Hawes

Kawhi Leonard the Flex man.