Rondo for Jimmer & company!

[slamtheking]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7lmj6na

Are People Here In CB Blind? THE MAIN GOAL IN THIS TRADE IS TO GET THE TOP 5 PICK!!! +we will have 3 1rd picks, and it'll be a good draft variety. I promise you guys with this trade, we will stay in the league competition for years to come!

Ottawa Celtic people are not blind they are just opposed to change. They clearly dont see the kind of talent I see coming back at the back end of this deal. Barnes, Gilchrist, Randolph, Rivers. And on top of that replace the position you are trading with a guy with upside potential. I saw BAD celtic ball from 94-2007. Don't wanna see mediocre years with Rondo stat padding 3-4years from now.

  Haha. Here's something fairly obvious that both of you aren't getting. Right now the Kings are the 5th worst team in the league with 6 wins. There are another 6 teams with 1-2 more wins than the Kings. You're sending them by far the best player in the trade. You won't likely be getting back a TOP 5 PICK, more likely something outside the bottom 10.

im not missing that at all. 3 first round picks can net you just about anyone you want. If guess you missed that. Lottery balls are rarely awarded to the worst team. Remember it cost us Durant!

  3 first round picks can net you what's available at the time and nothing more.  But, just to summarize, you said:

THE MAIN GOAL IN THIS TRADE IS TO GET THE TOP 5 PICK!!!

  Yet when it's pointed out that the trade is unlikely to net a top 5 pick, you claim to be aware of this. So you're hoping to make a trade where you don't expect to achieve your main goal in making the trade.

ding ding ding -- we have a winner by TKO in this bout by using the OP's own statements against his against point.

C's would have to be foolish to make this move for the reasons everyone else has pointed out.  Jimmer's not very good (and it's just pure speculation that will change), Taj is ok and that pick would not be worth as much after Rondo gets there and improves their record.  If, as someone else mentioned, you waited until the offseason to pull the trigger to make sure the pick was in the top 5, Sac wouldn't trade a top 5 pick in this draft for Rondo.

[Chris]

No, no, no.




Has Jimmer done anything different then Morrison did as a rookie?

I do this solely for the pick and Hickson.  That would be a heck of a haul for Rondo, who does not have a ton of value at the moment.  

What is the pick?  


Right now it is 5, but look at all the team that have 1, 2 or even just 3 more wins the Sac.  



It makes no sense at this point where the only thing you are sure about are two role players.  

Eh, its a value deal.

Thinking about it more deeply, I wouldn't make the trade right now either, because I am not ready to give up on the season just for that (and this would be giving up the season, unless there were another trade to get a quality PG to go along with it), but if this trade were proposed on say, draft day, I would probably pull the trigger if its a top 6-7 pick (knowing of course they wouldn't trade a top 3 pick).

[BballTim]

Omg! You guys are hilarious. Jimmer is far from horrible, I actually watch the games a little. And even his box scores doesn't translate horrible. He plays for a horrible team with horrible coaches is more accurate. Adam Morrison couldn't dribble, had no energy due to his diabetes making it tough on him, and he had no basketball savvy really. Once the ball hit Morrison hands it never left until it was airborne in a shot attempt. PG take time to mature in the NBA unless you have a team full of veterans who can provide him security which the Celtics did for Rondo. Sacramento wouldn't be the ideal scenario with a bunch of me 1st playes in Cousins,Evans & the ever gunning Thornton. I do watch games & Jimmer has not fit there.

He is slow

He is small.

For a PG, his assists to to ratio is terrible,


For a shooter, shooting under 40% is not good.  




He has done nothing in the NBA that warrants trade Rondo for him.  

His numbers are closer to Morrison then a PG who will be successful.  


And Rondo's first year, it was not a veteran team.  

I just don't get the Adam Morrison comparison. He was a forward & we talking about PG's. Anyways Adam Morrison rookie season & Jimmer's now is better than Rondo's was so what makes you think he would regress in year 2 like Ammo did?

  Rondo, as a rookie, had a PER of over 14 and his opponents had a PER of about 16. The Celts were more than 9 points per 100 possessions better with Rondo playing than on the bench. Jimmer has  PER of under 10 compared to better than 21 for his opponents. The Kings are about 11 points per 100 possessions *worse* when he plays. Rondo had about twice the assists per36 as Jimmer, twice the assist/bad pass ratio and about triple the rebounding rate as Jimmer. I think you need to reconsider what constitutes "better".

[BballTim]

No, no, no.




Has Jimmer done anything different then Morrison did as a rookie?

I do this solely for the pick and Hickson.  That would be a heck of a haul for Rondo, who does not have a ton of value at the moment.  

What is the pick?  


Right now it is 5, but look at all the team that have 1, 2 or even just 3 more wins the Sac.  



It makes no sense at this point where the only thing you are sure about are two role players.  

Eh, its a value deal.

Thinking about it more deeply, I wouldn't make the trade right now either, because I am not ready to give up on the season just for that (and this would be giving up the season, unless there were another trade to get a quality PG to go along with it), but if this trade were proposed on say, draft day, I would probably pull the trigger if its a top 6-7 pick (knowing of course they wouldn't trade a top 3 pick).

  The odds of getting a player as good as Rondo with a pick that's 6 or lower aren't really that high. The odds of getting a player that's clearly better are obviously worse.

[celticpride07]

maybe rondo for tyreke evans and the kings  1st round pick

[Chris]

No, no, no.




Has Jimmer done anything different then Morrison did as a rookie?

I do this solely for the pick and Hickson.  That would be a heck of a haul for Rondo, who does not have a ton of value at the moment.  

What is the pick?  


Right now it is 5, but look at all the team that have 1, 2 or even just 3 more wins the Sac.  



It makes no sense at this point where the only thing you are sure about are two role players.  

Eh, its a value deal.

Thinking about it more deeply, I wouldn't make the trade right now either, because I am not ready to give up on the season just for that (and this would be giving up the season, unless there were another trade to get a quality PG to go along with it), but if this trade were proposed on say, draft day, I would probably pull the trigger if its a top 6-7 pick (knowing of course they wouldn't trade a top 3 pick).

  The odds of getting a player as good as Rondo with a pick that's 6 or lower aren't really that high. The odds of getting a player that's clearly better are obviously worse.

The way I see it is that I think Rondo's value has peaked (or hopefully it will this year).  I think it will go down soon, and a mid lottery pick in a loaded draft (the trade would also depend on who comes out) has a chance to gain a lot more value.  

Jimmer also has the potential to still build a lot of value.

But, I am going to back off the trade even more, because I forgot that Hickson is a free agent this summer.  Without the added value of a cost controlled rotation quality, with the potential for more, big man, the value falls apart.

With that said, I think the framework for a Rondo deal is there.  If they can trade him for a mid to high lottery pick, and another 1-2 quality prospects, then I strongly consider it this offseason.  Because I think his value is going to drop, not only because he will be exposed a bit more on a bad team next year, but also because the league is quickly being overrun by quality young PGs.  

The last few drafts have had a ton of them, but this draft there aren't any great PG prospects, which will boost Rondo's value at that time, creating a perfect time to move him.

[Eddie20]

Remember Rondo wasnt SPECIAL as a rookie Remember. And besides a incredible finals game, we wouldn't have any game of significance over a 2 year span. So as of rookie to rookie on parallels, Jimmer is having a better season & will become a very good PG!

Remember that Rondo was 20, turning 21 during his rookie year. By comparison Fredette is 22, turning 23 later this month. Also, Rondo played in 68 college games, compared to 139 for Fredette. That is very significant in comparing both players during their rookie seasons, as the experience of Freddette is key.

[Chris]

Remember Rondo wasnt SPECIAL as a rookie Remember. And besides a incredible finals game, we wouldn't have any game of significance over a 2 year span. So as of rookie to rookie on parallels, Jimmer is having a better season & will become a very good PG!

Remember that Rondo was 20, turning 21 during his rookie year. By comparison Fredette is 22, turning 23 later this month. Also, Rondo played in 68 college games, compared to 139 for Fredette. That is very significant in comparing both players during their rookie seasons, as the experience of Freddette is key.

Eh, I think age and college experience can be overrated when you are talking about extremely skilled and fundamentally sound guys, which both Fredette and Rondo are. 

Its all about adjusting to the NBA game.  Rondo had a slightly easier adjustment, because he is such a great athlete.  Fredette has a harder one, because he needs to learn how to get his shots against NBA athletes.  That does not come quickly (ask Ryan Gomes, for example, who couldn't get a clean shot off his first time in the lineup as a rookie, Reddick, who really took a couple years to completely figure it out), and a lot of guys never figure it out. 

[BballTim]

No, no, no.




Has Jimmer done anything different then Morrison did as a rookie?

I do this solely for the pick and Hickson.  That would be a heck of a haul for Rondo, who does not have a ton of value at the moment.  

What is the pick?  


Right now it is 5, but look at all the team that have 1, 2 or even just 3 more wins the Sac.  



It makes no sense at this point where the only thing you are sure about are two role players.  

Eh, its a value deal.

Thinking about it more deeply, I wouldn't make the trade right now either, because I am not ready to give up on the season just for that (and this would be giving up the season, unless there were another trade to get a quality PG to go along with it), but if this trade were proposed on say, draft day, I would probably pull the trigger if its a top 6-7 pick (knowing of course they wouldn't trade a top 3 pick).

  The odds of getting a player as good as Rondo with a pick that's 6 or lower aren't really that high. The odds of getting a player that's clearly better are obviously worse.

The way I see it is that I think Rondo's value has peaked (or hopefully it will this year).  I think it will go down soon, and a mid lottery pick in a loaded draft (the trade would also depend on who comes out) has a chance to gain a lot more value.  

Jimmer also has the potential to still build a lot of value.

But, I am going to back off the trade even more, because I forgot that Hickson is a free agent this summer.  Without the added value of a cost controlled rotation quality, with the potential for more, big man, the value falls apart.

With that said, I think the framework for a Rondo deal is there.  If they can trade him for a mid to high lottery pick, and another 1-2 quality prospects, then I strongly consider it this offseason.  Because I think his value is going to drop, not only because he will be exposed a bit more on a bad team next year, but also because the league is quickly being overrun by quality young PGs.  

The last few drafts have had a ton of them, but this draft there aren't any great PG prospects, which will boost Rondo's value at that time, creating a perfect time to move him.

  I can see the argument that Rondo will have less trade value if all of the younger point guards pan out, but you're still probably trading him for less than he's worth. And his value would be as likely to go up as down on a worse team, clearly he's capable of putting up better numbers on a worse team.

[colincb]

"So as of rookie to rookie on parallels, Jimmer is having a better season"

Don't think so. Jimmer's got a PER of 10.0, Rondo had a PER of 13.1.  PER is pretty biased toward offense and Rondo was a very good defensive player immediately. Jimmer's is and will likely be abused ad infinitum defensively on the other hand. In other words, there's really no comparison contrary to the OP's premise.  Rondo was better as a rookie by far.

[2short]

Omg! You guys are hilarious. Jimmer is far from horrible, I actually watch the games a little. And even his box scores doesn't translate horrible. He plays for a horrible team with horrible coaches is more accurate. Adam Morrison couldn't dribble, had no energy due to his diabetes making it tough on him, and he had no basketball savvy really. Once the ball hit Morrison hands it never left until it was airborne in a shot attempt. PG take time to mature in the NBA unless you have a team full of veterans who can provide him security which the Celtics did for Rondo. Sacramento wouldn't be the ideal scenario with a bunch of me 1st playes in Cousins,Evans & the ever gunning Thornton. I do watch games & Jimmer has not fit there.

He is slow

He is small.

For a PG, his assists to to ratio is terrible,


For a shooter, shooting under 40% is not good.  




He has done nothing in the NBA that warrants trade Rondo for him.  

His numbers are closer to Morrison then a PG who will be successful.  


And Rondo's first year, it was not a veteran team.  

I just don't get the Adam Morrison comparison. He was a forward & we talking about PG's. Anyways Adam Morrison rookie season & Jimmer's now is better than Rondo's was so what makes you think he would regress in year 2 like Ammo did? Jimmer is a better baller than Morrison ever was! Look at Fredette last 5 games & you'll see progress already. Stop the Jimmer hate because of Rondo, its unfair & unwarranted.

Two great shooters from college.


Two guys to slow for the NBA at their positions.

Two guys shooting under 40% in their rookie years.



This is not Jimmer hate.  This is looking at fringe NBA role player.  If he ever hits his shot in the NBA, he could be the next Steve Kerr.

or just as likely the next steve alford

all the trade rondo talk MUST be because he is overpaid with that huge contract compared to other pg's of his caliber 

[guava_wrench]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7lmj6na

Are People Here In CB Blind? THE MAIN GOAL IN THIS TRADE IS TO GET THE TOP 5 PICK!!! +we will have 3 1rd picks, and it'll be a good draft variety. I promise you guys with this trade, we will stay in the league competition for years to come!

So long as you are promising it will work...

[Chris]

No, no, no.




Has Jimmer done anything different then Morrison did as a rookie?

I do this solely for the pick and Hickson.  That would be a heck of a haul for Rondo, who does not have a ton of value at the moment.  

What is the pick?  


Right now it is 5, but look at all the team that have 1, 2 or even just 3 more wins the Sac.  



It makes no sense at this point where the only thing you are sure about are two role players.  

Eh, its a value deal.

Thinking about it more deeply, I wouldn't make the trade right now either, because I am not ready to give up on the season just for that (and this would be giving up the season, unless there were another trade to get a quality PG to go along with it), but if this trade were proposed on say, draft day, I would probably pull the trigger if its a top 6-7 pick (knowing of course they wouldn't trade a top 3 pick).

  The odds of getting a player as good as Rondo with a pick that's 6 or lower aren't really that high. The odds of getting a player that's clearly better are obviously worse.

The way I see it is that I think Rondo's value has peaked (or hopefully it will this year).  I think it will go down soon, and a mid lottery pick in a loaded draft (the trade would also depend on who comes out) has a chance to gain a lot more value.  

Jimmer also has the potential to still build a lot of value.

But, I am going to back off the trade even more, because I forgot that Hickson is a free agent this summer.  Without the added value of a cost controlled rotation quality, with the potential for more, big man, the value falls apart.

With that said, I think the framework for a Rondo deal is there.  If they can trade him for a mid to high lottery pick, and another 1-2 quality prospects, then I strongly consider it this offseason.  Because I think his value is going to drop, not only because he will be exposed a bit more on a bad team next year, but also because the league is quickly being overrun by quality young PGs.  

The last few drafts have had a ton of them, but this draft there aren't any great PG prospects, which will boost Rondo's value at that time, creating a perfect time to move him.

  I can see the argument that Rondo will have less trade value if all of the younger point guards pan out, but you're still probably trading him for less than he's worth. And his value would be as likely to go up as down on a worse team, clearly he's capable of putting up better numbers on a worse team.

Well, we know we have a disagreement about what he is worth.  I think a mid lottery pick in a strong draft, and a couple more solid assets is a pretty good return.

And as far as the PGs go, I am not just talking about guys like Wall and Irving, who are knocking on the door of the elite group of PGs, but with guys like Lowry, Lawson, Jack and Jennings (to name a few) seeming to make the leap, that second tier (where Rondo is) is getting deeper and deeper (even if they are not all as good as Rondo, they are at least close).

There are just fewer and fewer teams who have PG's that are  far enough step below Rondo that they would give up great value to get him. 

[KG_ended_Bias]

I just dont see or understand the overwhelming love for a basketball player who can't be trusted with the clock running down to make a key shot or free throw. Can you actually claim Rondo is your best player when he is the last guy you want taking a shot to win any game? Give me a guy who wants the ball rather than having to give it away in the waning minutes. Give me Jimmer in that aspect when it counts the most.

[Celtics4ever]

Jimmer might want the last shot but I would bet that Rondo could make him eat it with a block....